Doug's headers not fitting - frustration

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Manual steering headers on a power steering car. Fitted them on a fixture and then installed the assembly from the bottom. They fit like a glove,
I started with the engine/trans on a plain old cart and k-frame, and even then they would hit the PS box. Knowing it was all going to change once it was bolted to the car I thought that was because the engine wasn't sitting on the k-frame like it would be once it was all bolted in the car.

Then I put it in and tried to shove the TBs in place.

BTW that's a nice fixture you've got there :thumbsup:
 
Bob, the only other time I saw an issue like this, the installer didn't know the engine sits something like 1 1/2 inches to the passenger side, and he had centered the engine in the frame and had major issues like you.
I'd really be interested, I'm sure I asked before, where your engine/crank centerline is, this chart tells where it should be.
Please and thank-you .

View attachment 1716249935
The last time I had already beat the headers up so I thought measuring was moot. Now I know that wasn't enough so I will try to measure it today.

How the heck will I move the engine over, if it needs it? I'm a one-man band here. Right now it seems to always go back to the same spot on the k-frame no matter how I try to pry it. 500 lbs of steel aluminum and rubber has a mind of it's own.
 
I hate headers on an a body. Here how I solved my fitment issues, courtesy of Ryobi….

IMG_0180.jpeg
 
453's on my 70 Dart, ps box was too close the to tubes, went to a 16:1 aftermarket manual box

New 1.03 torsion bars required dinging for clearance, both sides

Schumacher mounts on a 360 magnum, slant 6 k frame
1/4 in of washers under the drivers motor mount
 
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Trust me on this because I have it - there isn't lots of room for power steering no matter what you might think. The tubes tuck between the steering gear and the block. I had two tubes that touched the steering gear #1 & #3. The steering coupler is flat up against the #7 tube.

Not that it matters, but I'll never recommend them to anybody. If they were a $150 generic Jeg's/Summit header, yeah. But $500+, no.
Ok, try this.

Unbolt the driver's side engine mount.

Use a bar or an engine hoist and see if you can move the engine to a position that clears the header tubes.

If the headers now clear, maybe you can shim between the motor mount and the K-Frame to get the clearance you need.

Your problem is engine location as there area number of members on here with the same setup as you with the same headers that had no fitment issues.

Cheers!!

Edit: I just noticed something else from your pics. That section of the K Frame that the motor mount sits on looks like its bent
downward. K-Frames are notorious for bad or cracked welds.

I wonder if this is your problem?
 
Ok, try this.

Unbolt the driver's side engine mount.

Use a bar or an engine hoist and see if you can move the engine to a position that clears the header tubes.

If the headers now clear, maybe you can shim between the motor mount and the K-Frame to get the clearance you need.

Your problem is engine location as there area number of members on here with the same setup as you with the same headers that had no fitment issues.

Cheers!!

Edit: I just noticed something else from your pics. That section of the K Frame that the motor mount sits on looks like its bent
downward. K-Frames are notorious for bad or cracked welds.

I wonder if this is your problem?
I don't remember seeing any cracks but will look again. One thing, those photos were with the k-frame on the cart, so it wasn't sitting level to begin with.

TBH, now that I'm stepping back from it, I think that is where this whole fiasco started. Will know after measuring and/or lifting it up and prying it over.
 
The original welds on my k frame look like some pot smoking hippy in the 60s welded it up. And mine is sloppy requiring shims between mounts to get the headers to fit. Back in the 80s I ran Hooker Headers, didn't know about sloppy k-frames, and beat big dents in them to fit. Then the internet got invented and learned engine placement in a lot of these cars can be a major problem.
 
The original welds on my k frame look like some pot smoking hippy in the 60s welded it up. And mine is sloppy requiring shims between mounts to get the headers to fit. Back in the 80s I ran Hooker Headers, didn't know about sloppy k-frames, and beat big dents in them to fit. Then the internet got invented and learned engine placement in a lot of these cars can be a major problem.
Yup!

The welds are ****, especially around the steering box mount. Get in a stock mopar, have someone crank the steering wheel hard left or right and look at the steering box.

You can actually see the deflection happening!
 
Did I hear someone say "poor quality control from the factory "
If the k-frame motor mount locations were shifted 1/4 inch one way or the other that was considered within spec when the cars were built. Tolerances were loose and for factory parts that was usually fine. But when we go to put headers on that loop around everything and require extremely precise engine location to work big issues can arise. But some get lucky and headers fit right in while others have major fitment issues.
 
Like if a door gap was 1/8 inch on one car and a giant 1/4 inch gap on the next car rolling down the line quality control would look at it say yep thats fine ship that car to the dealer. Not to mention pot smoking hippies working on assembly plants in the 60s....
 
Looks like the engine is to close to the drivers side. Is the Centerline of your engine offset to the passenger side frame rail by 1.25”. The difference in measurement from the centerline of the crank to the each frame rail should be 2.5" total.

Ie; if it measures 16.25” from the Center to driver rail and 13.75" to the passenger side you're good. If it’s more or less than the required difference your engine isn’t centered properly. Adjust accordingly

Measure from Center of crank to inside of the frame rail.
 
Don't they make a couple of different thickness of the rubber biscuit in the mount? those look really thin in the pic
 
Don't they make a couple of different thickness of the rubber biscuit in the mount? those look really thin in the pic
I thought so too, because I'm more accustomed to b-body mounts, but the parts that RockAuto lists for a 71 v8 also look thin.
 
I thought so too, because I'm more accustomed to b-body mounts, but the parts that RockAuto lists for a 71 v8 also look thin.
ah k.. yeah just dropping a engine like 1/4" would make headers hit ****.. was just thinking bout it is all
 
uuh Bob... The engineers were also pot smoking hippies..LOL !!!
This is true... little known fact was Tom Hoover was known as Tom "Hookah"... and that's how he came up with the hemi.. baked out of his skull... Later when the engineers switched to crack they made lean burn :(
This is an actual picture..
1715790396343.jpeg
 
This is true... little known fact was Tom Hoover was known as Tom "Hookah"... and that's how he came up with the hemi.. baked out of his skull... Later when the engineers switched to crack they made lean burn :(
This is an actual picture..
View attachment 1716250127

And all along I thought " Hoover" referred to the way he sucked back the smoke....
 
Remembering that I've got eyes like Jack Elam so I have trouble with depth perception, it looks to me like the height is right, and the engine needs to move 1/8 to the passenger side. Now to figure out how to do that. I've got a stack of 1/8" shims but am not sure that's going to move it the way I need. I'll find out later.

1715790997615.png
 
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