1964 Dart Owner - In Over My Head

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fzromen said:
Well the good news was the tail light issue was a quick fix of some shoddy wiring and a blown fuse. So I have tail lights and a dome light.

By the way the part of the door locks that I don't have is the rod that connects the lock knob and the key lock all together. I'm sure I could get the door lock cylinders out and work on them to get them to work again. Suggestions on where to find the rod piece?
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Put a ad in the wanted section some one might have them for you.
 
Welcome! What a sweet ride you got there! This forum is a great, great resource of knowledge. I would take Slantsixdan's advice and get the factory manual. I have had good use of mine.
 
So, just an update and two quick questions....

Took the Dart out on a decent road test today. Car handled great. Just a few thoughts... Man that slant six is gutless climbing any sort of hills! (I know, it's more likely the gears in it.) Got a bit hairy for me on one mountain we had to go down. It's a 65 mph road that starts a huge downhill incline that turns into a sweeping right hand bend. Not too bad on it's own but our lovely DOH built it with the banking throwing you out of the turn.

I thought I had gotten the gas leak sealed up right and proper and it doesn't appear that way. As I was filling up this evening I made a nice ecological disaster in the Sheetz parking lot. So I can't figure out which gasket (grommet? I've seen it called both. The tech manual calls it an oring.) that i need to order. Classic industries lists three different ones that all look different with different dimensions. Also other shops to look at? Classic Industries wants as much as the gasket for the shipping!

The other question has to do with the steering. Being that it's an old car, I know that taking it into a shop for handling issues is a hit or miss proposition. So I noticed that I've got a bit of a shimmy shake to the steering when braking. Is this a brake issue or more of an steering issue? What to look for and what should I start with?

Thanks for the help and patience with a young guy, learning his way with a classic car.
 
I take it the fuel leak is where the filler neck goes into the gas tank. I had same issue with an E-body. - 1/2 of a tank or a left hand turn and it poured out. And when I first discovered it .. I was at Sheetz too ... "hey, mister, you're leaking gas ... ". Don't feel too bad.

It's the grommet you are looking for if that is where its leaking.

Mopar Parts | MF369 | 1963-66 Mopar A-Body Tank To Filler Neck Grommet | Classic Industries

The e-body one looks different, so if someone here can explain which way end goes to tank and which to filler neck .. I know on many it does make a difference. Edit : just looked at pic again ... looks pretty easy to figure out which way that one goes ...

BTW .. here's what a bad grommet looks like. Someone before me tried to "fix" it with plumbers tape ... but once it goes bad, you just need to replace it.

Not a hard job ... but I needed help to get the neck into the new grommet.

IMG_0348.JPG
 
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Buying an old car is like a box of chocolates....you never know what you got until you bite into it.

1964 Mopar suspensions are inherently good designs and will handle reasonably well as long as the components are in good shape.

First order of business should be to check the front end components. 4 ball joints, 4 tie rod ends, 4 upper and 2 lower control arm bushings, shocks, idler arm, steering box tightness, etc. Do this before changing anything.

Didn't notice, but if you have manual steering the ratio is 24:1which means the effort is low but it's slow, meaning you have to crank the wheel more than you're used to to make a turn. Power steering ratio is 16:1.

If all the components check out it's easy to change the torsion bars to thicker ones effectively stiffening them up. Good gas shocks help out too. A front sway bar can be added to flatten it out in the turns.

Don't forget the rear suspension. Slightly stiffer springs and poly bushings in the rear spring shackles and good quality shocks tighten it up like Archie Drell.

Make sure the slanty is in good tune. There are lots of posts on this subject but bumping the timing to 10 degrees or so will make it seem peppier. The auto trans also sucks power.

Unless modified, a 64 Dart will not handle or drive like a modern econobox so sit back and enjoy the ride and the sound of the 2 watt AM radio.
 
So, I'm an idiot..... (Now that, we've established that let me tell you why.)

I ordered in the parts to fix my fuel leak and the leak at the manifold as well as to redo the valve cover gasket when I fine tune the rocker arms. I thought, I'd get a jump start on my weekend worth of work this evening and started undoing the bolts holding the manifold to the block. Snapped 4 bolts.... :(

I didn't even think to have ordered bolts or what not to fix this issue. Let alone, I've never dealt with snapped off bolts in something like an engine block. HELP!
 
You didn't snap any bolts holding the manifold to the block. The manifold doesn't connect to the block, and it's not held on by bolts. It's held on by nuts on studs that thread into the head.

I didn't even think to have ordered bolts or what not to fix this issue.
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Well, what actually happened is you did a "readyyyy...FIRE!!!...aimmmmm". You picked up wrenches and dove on in without first reading up and asking questions about what you were about to do. You would have been pointed at articles like this and threads like this, and you would have learned that It is very much worth your while to get the good gaskets for the manifolds-to-head and intake-to-exhaust junctions.
 
slantsixdan said:
You didn't snap any bolts holding the manifold to the block. The manifold doesn't connect to the block, and it's not held on by bolts. It's held on by nuts on studs that thread into the head.



Well, what actually happened is you did a "readyyyy...FIRE!!!...aimmmmm". You picked up wrenches and dove on in without first reading up and asking questions about what you were about to do. You would have been pointed at articles like this and threads like this, and you would have learned that It is very much worth your while to get the good gaskets for the manifolds-to-head and intake-to-exhaust junctions.
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Well I did read some and I ordered the Remflex gasket... I got it from Summit Racing and so I did part of my homework. So I broke the bolts that connect the intake to the exhaust. They snapped off at the top of the exhaust side.

I broke the stud on the very first spot at the top. I'm not seeing some of the hardware that was on these originally either on a few of the nuts. So I'm at a loss as what to order and to be honest, I'm a little nervous about the process of drilling out this stud to begin with.
 
You're right to be nervous; it's a pain-in-the-neck (pain-in-the-back) repair process that can go wrong in a bunch of ways. No fun. You may wind up pulling the head and having a machine shop do it.

What hardware to order is covered in the 2nd link I just posted ("Threads like this").
 
You are way ahead since a nice body and paint. Your issues are minor and common (at least until you snapped the manifold studs). Common parts are easy to get and cheap. Check rockauto and ebay. I recall paying $15 for the tank filler grommet (coat w/ vasoline to slide in the filler tube). Even a new tank is only $100 and stainless level sender $45. You will find most basic parts to be much cheaper than for a new car. I just bought a set of spark plug tube seals for $0.45 on rock (clearance) and earlier got a 904 transmission rebuild kit w/ steel plates for $50.

Re removing the broken studs, that is always an adventure. If you remove the manifolds, there might be enough left to grab. But, you only get one chance so don't wing it. Vise-grip pliers might work, but a good Craftsmen set of "stud removers" might be smarter. Soak the threads for days w/ PB Blaster. Heat the studs w/ a torch, to red-hot if possible. When you try to loosen, first go in and out while spraying more penetrant, the goal being to free and flush out the rust which is locking it. Tapping the end of the stud w/ a hammer also helps by hydro-shocking the penetrant to free rust, but only works if the penetrant has gotten deep into the threads. Of course, replace all studs while at it (preferably grade 8) since you proved they can't be trusted. If broken off flush, you will probably need to remove the head to take to a shop. They remove those all day long, sometimes even using a "tap burner" which electrically vaporizes the metal stud. But, before pulling the head, first do compression and leak-down tests to tell if you should do a ring, valve, or rebuild of the engine. With the head off is the perfect time, and a re-ring & hone can be done w/ block in the car. If you measure >130 psig compression in all cyl, plus feel each cylinder resist strongly as you turn the engine over by hand, no need to pursue that.
 
if you got anything left of that stud once you remove the manifold pack, heat it from the top and touch a candle to it on the bottom. The heat will draw the wax into the threads and may provide enough 'lube' to get it free with a set of good vice-grips. if not, center punch it (important) and drill out (try a left handed drill bit first as it may turn right out without any more tension on it). I have had little luck with EZ outs, More luck with a straight drill in progressively larger sizes until I can pick out the thin shell with a punch and hammer. Brass nuts help with not seizing on the studs once they are replaced. And the special washers are important to provide the proper torque to the manifolds so they can slide on the gasket as designed. If you dont use them, you can crack your exhaust.
 
fzromen said:
... I broke the bolts that connect the intake to the exhaust. They snapped off at the top of the exhaust side. ... I broke the stud on the very first spot at the top.
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You certainly aren't the first to snap the long bolt in the center which bolts the intake manifold to the exhaust, since usually old and rusty. I recall using a stainless steel bolt from Ace Hardware for that, or a grade 8 yellow-chromate plated bolt might be a good choice.

When you re-assemble the intakes, carefully read the article that SSD linked. The triangle and cone washers install opposite to what most people would think intuitive. If you install them flipped over, the exhaust manifold can eventually crack, as pishta said.
 
Well I got everything drilled out, tapped out, and otherwise ready to reassemble. Told the wife that we might even be able to go to church in it, in the morning!

Everything was going so well and I was reassembling the manifolds together with the long bolts and felt the manifold shift slightly in my hand...... The exhaust manifold cracked right at the little lobe where the bolt goes through.

So I began the long walk back to the house to tell the wife that the car that we just bought and haven't been able to drive for three weeks still won't be done and oh by the way, I've gotta order another $ part.

So far the only option I'm finding online is a Dorman kit with all the other happy jazz that I don't need since I bought the Remflex gaskets and what not. It's also like 300 bucks!

I don't even think the choke mount is the same?

Can someone point me in a better direction?
 
All the currently-available manifolds are from China, but they are not all alike. As you can see, the Dorman item is more expensive than the "same" manifold from other companies. The reason is simple, you (don't) get what you (don't) pay for. Dorman's the high bidder, so they get the first-rate manifolds from the foundry: cast correctly, no core shift or other flaws, little or no excessive casting flash that gets in the way of your installing the manifold, etc. Other marketing companies bid less, so they get the 2nd-rate parts (you don't want). Still others bid even less, so they get the 3rd-rate parts (you really don't want), and so on and on down the line.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but buying the good one avoids cursing yourself for having failed to do so. Your options:

Buy a used one: spend less money, but you have to hope you get one that isn't warped, cracked, or otherwise faulty. Hope it stays that way.

Buy a cheaper-than-Dorman new one: spend middle money, but you have to contend with relatively poor casting quality and accuracy. Makes it a pain to install, too.

Buy a Dorman new one: spend more money, but "done in one" and you can move on to thinking about things other than exhaust manifolds.

As for the choke pocket: Yes, it's different on any new manifold you can buy today. So's the heat riser valve. Don't worry about it—it'll just require a № 1231 Electric choke kit.
 
A new exhaust manifold is >$100, and people ask >$50 for a used one on ebay. But, you can get an entire slant engine w/ tranny often for free. People try to give them away here all the time, since so many change to a V-8. If you have space, keep a spare one. If the manifold broke at the ear where the exhaust pipe bolts up, I would be tempted to bugger a fix - something like a collar that bolts over the outlet flange to hold a bolt. If you have a welder, might be easier to rig a bolt-clamp setup. Doesn't have to be super-tight, just enough to seal the exhaust.
 
Welcome to the forum , Nice '64 .
These cars are easy to work on , if you have questions just ask here and get answers fast.

BTW as for tires a 235/60x14 or 225/60x15 on 7" win wheels will clear just fine.
Yours look like 8" on the rear.

Air shocks can rub on the gas tank flange coil overs may do the same.

RockAuto has standard repair parts for your car.
Mega Parts USA - Reproduction, NOS and Used Mopar Muscle Car Parts has lock sets with keys for your car.

Have fun with it and consider collector car insurance with agreed value . Of course this means you will need a daily driver.
 
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The stock exhaust manifold outlet is 2 1/4" , the head pipe to the muffler is necked down to 1 3/4" , the tail pipe exits the muffler at 1 1/2".
This makes for a lot of back pressure and a lot of torque at low RPM off idle to about 1500 RPM then it strangles the engine at higher RPM. They did this to make the \6 feel snappy on the test drive.
If you up size the exhaust to 2 1/4" from header pipe to tail pipe and with a muffler with some back pressure it will really wake up the performance especially on the highway.

Using an electric cooling fan will also help performance.

Standard gear ratio is most likely 3.23 , with larger diameter tires you should go with 3.55 at least. The stock tires were 6.50 or. 7.00x13" they were about 24" diameter. Your tires look like they are around 26" This is like putting a 2.50 gear ratio and that will kill performance.
 
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GGs66GT said:
The stock exhaust manifold outlet is 2 1/4"
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It's actually 2".

the head pipe to the muffler is necked down to 1 3/4" , the tail pipe exits the muffler at 1 1/2"
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True. A 2-1/4" headpipe became standard in '76, and is a much better choice—all benefit and no drawback (no, the underspecified headpipe does not "make lots of torque"). But the car should probably be put together in running condition before exhaust system upgrades described earlier in this thread are worth contemplating. :)

An electric fan is a far down the list of cost-effective upgrades; it's expensive to do properly (and unsafe to do halfassed), and the benefit is small—definitely not low-hanging fruit.

Stock rear axle ratio in '64 was 2.93 with an automatic, 3.23 with a manual transmission. The big tires are definitely contributing to the sluggish acceleration, especially since the previous owner probably didn't swap in the correct speedometer drive pinion when the oversized tires were installed.
 
Gee, my '64 GT 225 auto & '64 270 wagon 225 auto & '66 GT 225 auto a/c 7.00x13" all came with 3.23. The '64s were used so I can't say if they were optioned . But we ordered the '66 new in Oct. '65 and the 3.23 was standard equipment . BTW these are all California cars.

Now that I put 225/65x15 on my '66 I am going to have to change the axle ratio to 3.55 or steeper. to get back the performance.

Dart Left.jpg
 
2.93 became standard in the A-bodies with 225 and automatic trans in the middle of '62 production, and remained that way through '67—no matter how clear the details might feel of a car purchase made over half a century ago. Aside from the order books, see here (RH column of RH page) and here (RH column of RH page), here (RH column), and here (last 2 lines in RH column).
 
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I just now looked at the window sticker and it does not list the optional 3.23 yet it has the original rear end and 3.23 gears. Do you think the Clean Air Package & or the A/C & or 7.00x13" tires included the 3.23 ?
 
Both of My '64 GT's came w/2.93's, one local(225 PB auto Cp), and one from OK(225 column 3spd. 'Vert). I'd look at the build tag codes on the fender, and the sheet under
back seat bottom to confirm the axle OE build. You have the original window sticker from the '66 I'm guessing? Really sharp ride You've got there BTW!!
 
Different axle ratio with Clean Air Package: No, probably not. But with trailer tow package, probably yes. Build cards are nifty for determining what the factory put on...fifty-odd years ago. That doesn't matter as much as what's actually on (under) the car, which can be checked for certain this way. But even that won't matter til the owner of this particular '64 Dart is done doing the immediate repairs at the other end of the car.
 
Ok after looking at the fender tag , it doesn't appear to list a 3.23.
So I was fooled by the small diameter tires .
Fortunately I have a rebuilt A body 8 1/4 rear axle with 3.23 gears and 10" brakes to install one of these days , Then I'll have 3.23s under my GT .

I should know better then to doubt Dan .

It certainly was informative for everyone , albeit a bit of a side bar.

OK enough of this hi jack back to the O.P. Ask and you will learn .
 
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