Comparing Borgeson's power steering box to the mopar OEM box

FedX just delivered my Borgeson power steering conversion kit for my 69 383 4 speed Barracuda. although i have a lot of mopar parts, i purchased the entire kit including the power steering box, the power steering pump, the hoses and the steering shaft connector. it was expensive - $1247.00 - but it's a complete kit. i posted another thread about how insane headers are on a big block A-body car and have a lot of pictures on that thread showing all the stuff i've taken off the 383 so far to install a new mini-starter. i thought i'd put this steering box stuff in a separate thread as i have several pictures.

the Borgeson box and all the parts are VERY well made. all the boxes have "made in the USA" on them and the parts look like they are. the box and the pump are powder coated black. the steering shaft connector looks very heavy duty and the hoses look like any PS hoses you would buy. i spoke with one of the guys at Borgeson and he was very nice and helpful. there are two pitman arm diameters - 1 1/8" and 1 1/4". 62-72 A-body mopars take the 1 1/8" pitman arm box.

i took some measurements of the Borgeson box compared to the mopar OEM power steering box and the manual steering box. i can't guarantee these are exact measurements but they should be very close.

the Borgeson box is 7" from the outer housing (beside the engine) to the fender well. the main large part of the box is 3 1/2" wide and the cylinder diameter by the pitman arm is 2 1/2" wide. the mopar OEM power steering box is also 7" from the outer housing (beside the engine) to the fender well. however, the OEM box is much larger than the Borgeson box being 4 1/2" in diameter at the main large part and is 3 1/2" in diameter at the pitman arm area.

the mopar manual steering aluminum box is about the same size as the Borgeson power steering box. the OEM manual box is 6 1/4" from the outer housing (beside the engine) to the K-member attachment bolt. but the Borgeson power steering box is only 5 1/4" from the outer housing (beside the engine) to the K-member attachment bolt. that means that the Borgeson power steering box has a full 1" more clearance when installed between the box body and the engine than the even the manual OEM steering box. the mopar OEM power steering box is VERY large. comparing the clearance between the box and the engine of the OEM mopar power steering box to the Borgeson power steering box shows the Borgeson has somewhere between 1" to 2" more clearance between the box and the engine.

the bottom line appears to be - if you have MANUAL steering on your A-body, you can put the Borgeson POWER steering box on in exactly the same space. if you have the large, OEM mopar power steering box and you switch to the Borgeson power steering box, you'll have between 1-2" MORE space between your original OEM power steering box and the engine.

here are a bunch of pictures comparing all these boxes.

Nice write up, thanks for sharing.

Car Nut said:

Nice write up, thanks for sharing.

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i hope this info helps someone. another FABO guy had asked me about the Borgeson box in the other thread i posted about how insane it was to have headers on a big block A-body.

Jim Many Thanks for the write up! What was the reason you went with their full kit? vs just replacing the steering mechanism? I'm asking because while I am cheap I do appreciate the benefits of new - just didn't know if they had given any additional reasons...

Thanks for posting this and the great photos!!

Thats quite a size difference seeing them side by side.

Aren't they an adaptation of the power steering box from some flavor of jeep?

Cuda416 said:

Aren't they an adaptation of the power steering box from some flavor of jeep?

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I think they start with a 2000's Jeep box and machine some of it away, and then weld on a bracket for Mopars. Input and/or output shaft is modified too.

I put a Borgeson on my Dart and am happy with it! (It was also nice that the factory was about a mile from my house. No longer the case.)

Seems they did a bunch of "development" on CC years ago. it was a viable replacement for an AAR box as i recall.

The Borgeson box may have been based on a delphi box at one time, but not now. A co-worker just bought one for his duster and it is definitely an all new casting for the housing. I used a delphi box in my bronco and it definitely looks different than the Borgeson box.

RhinoMan68 said:

Jim Many Thanks for the write up! What was the reason you went with their full kit? vs just replacing the steering mechanism? I'm asking because while I am cheap I do appreciate the benefits of new - just didn't know if they had given any additional reasons...

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yes, i went through the same debate. i have several mopar power steering pumps. i talked to the guy at Borgeson and asked him if the hoses they sell for connecting the pump to the box will fit a mopar pump. he said he didn't know for sure because their kits use the same pumps as GM uses - which means that their power steering box uses the same hose that fits on a GM pump. if you wanted to save some money, you could buy just the hoses off of them and then see if they will attach and seal correctly to a mopar pump. then if they did, you would only need to buy the Borgeson box and use your original mopar OEM pump. i also wondered if there might be some kind of pressure amount that the Borgeson box needs to work right that the mopar pumps might not provide. finally, i'm trying to get this car back together and i finally just decided paying the extra money for the entire kit from Borgeson would be easier.

yes, the box that i received was a much better looking and better manufactured box than what Borgeson shows on their website for mopars.[/QUOTE]

@GMachineDartGT can probably help answer some of these pump questions.

That PS box is a huge help for putting a B in an early A, that was the only thing that made me swap to to a manual box was the Mopar size and where the top was in relation to 383 Hi-po manifolds, and of the sector shaft is offset any closer to the fender (+.125), thats a win-win as HP Manifolds will bolt right up with no steering shaft interference.
@RustyRatRod

well... another progress report...

i've installed the mini starter and the Borgeson steering box. here's a bunch of pictures but first some things i've learned so far.
1. the mini starter went on without a hitch but you MUST have the terminal relocation attachment because the starter's terminals are right beside the block with hardly any clearance. you would never be able to attach the battery cables to the original starter terminals without the noted terminal relocation block.

2. the Borgeson box is NOT an easy installation:
A. having a friend to help hold the box while putting in the bolts from underneath would help a lot. you can hold the box up by yourself and install the bolts but you need a good bit of strength to do this.
B. the original mounting holes in the box are too small as this box has NO "wiggle room" on the OEM mopar mounting plates. you have to bore the Borgeston holes out with a drill bit THE NEXT SIZE BIGGER than the holes so as not to weaken the mounting brackets. one size bigger is enough to get the little wiggle room you need to install the mopar "star nut" bolts.
C. the mopar OEM star head bolts are hardened bolts and will strip the threads in the mounting plate VERY easily if they are off angle when you try to screw them in. because the Borgeson box fits EXACTLY in the OEM spot with just a "little" wiggle room after you have drilled out all three mounting holes, it is hard to judge if you have the OEM bolts started straight before trying to run them in with a socket. the mopar mounting bracket is on a slight angle (like maybe 20 degrees?) and it is hard to judge if the bolt is going in directly to the threads. i messed up the threads on two of the mounting nuts and had to re-cut them with a tap. these bolts are 1/2" (American size) with coarse threads (14 threads to 1 inch). i would suggest you have a die and tap set handy or just buy a 1/2" (14 thread/inch) tap and have it handy. after i re-cut the threads i messed up, i went ahead and re-cut the third hole with the tap and cleaning the threads made running the OEM bolt in much easier. don't forget the cutting oil when you do this.
D. i installed the Borgeson universal joint that connects to the steering shaft on the Box before i installed it. however, i do not know yet whether i will have to take this part back off the box as the steering shaft has to be cut and then fitted into this joint. something i don't know yet - Plymouth used two sized length steering shafts on these cars - one for manual steering and one for a car with factory power steering. these shafts are different lengths and i forget which one of the two (the manual or the power steering box) takes the shorter shaft. my car had manual steering so i don't know how much of this shaft will have to be cut off. if the manual steering cars take the longer shaft, i may be able to switch to the shorter OEM power steering shaft and not have to cut as much off.
E. the mopar steering shaft goes into the Borgeson steering connector universal joint and is held in place by two press pins. you have to drill two holes in the shaft (90 degrees offset from each other) and then put the press pins into these holes through the steering shaft. HOWEVER, before you can drill the holes in the steering shaft, the Borgeson box has to be "centered" in the middle of its turning range; the front wheels of the car have to be centered straight forward as best you can; the ENTIRE steering linkage (drag link and Pitman arm) must be attached and the steering wheel placed in a "centered" position. i do not see any way to adjust the steering linkage after you have drilled the holes in the steering shaft for the press pins. the Pitman arm has four inside "dogs" that allow it to only go on one way onto the steering box and the steering wheel has an inner "dog" on the attachment area of the wheel that only allows it to go on in one position on the steering shaft. as such - ALL of this has to be centered exactly where everything is suppose to be when driving the car straight and having the steering wheel in the correct position as to the steering wheel spokes.

one other thing, in the photo here that is the close-up of the Borgeson box that shows the oil dipstick tube - look at the engine motor mount tab beside the attached motor mount. this tab has to have about 3/8" cut off to provide clearance between the motor and the Borgeson box.

i'm looking forward to having power steering on my 69 383 Barracuda and i'm going to put the Borgeson box on the 440 69 M-Code Cuda i have. my 68 340 Barracuda has manual steering and i hate it. it will be on the list for conversion to PS also - but i "might" be able to use the mopar OEM power steering box on the 68.

i know most of FABO folks are accomplished mechanics and race car builders. the Borgeson power steering box conversion is a good product but it is WAY beyond just a beginner mechanic's skill or knowledge. all you serious FABO guys out there will not have a problem if you decide to do this conversion. here are some pictures:











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If you don’t want to do any cutting. There’s a direct fit steering coupler that requires no cutting of the steering shaft. I don’t know if it’ll fit non power steering shafts though.

https://bergmanautocraft.com/product/direct-fit-steering-coupler/

Car Nut said:

If you don’t want to do any cutting. There’s a direct fit steering coupler that requires no cutting of the steering shaft. I don’t know if it’ll fit non power steering shafts though.

Direct-Fit Mopar Steering Coupler - No Cutting - Bergman Auto Craft

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HEY CAR NUT - THANK YOU !!!

i just went to the bergman website and bought the steering shaft adapter for the Borgeson box!! it's a little expensive ($205.00) but i was happy to pay that amount to NOT have to mess around with cutting the steering shaft. this is just one more example of why i LOVE FABO! there are so many guys on here that have unique mopar information and experience. this adapter is going to make this install so much easier. the Borgeson kit i bought came with the universal joint adapter and maybe Borgeson will take it back and give me some kind of partial refund. if not, i'll try to sell it on ebay.

again, THANK YOU !!
jim coster, carnegie, pa.

Your steering shaft has to be cut. It is way, way, way too long. There is no adapter that will make that unnecessary! The adapter/u-joint/coupling is not the reason for cutting the shaft. The power steering box is longer. I did my Borgeson conversion many years ago and I went from manual to power steering, had to cut mine, but I can't recall the dimension. Isn't it in the instructions? Or, call them, I bet they know the exact dimension. Also, I had none of the problems you mention with the mounting holes. (I would not be surprised if their QC suffered when they moved down south, leaving CT for the cheaper labor.) Good luck!

That was alot of work. Congrats Jim on not throwing anything through the picture window!

It needs definetly some skills. We are also in progress to fit the kit and had some small issues. The kit will fit the pump on the left side above the k member, there is our water pump outlet on the 340 in the early 64'A Valiant. So we have to get new brackets for left side top mounting. Crankshaft poulie is hard to get, the only one we found was an underdrive wp. We will machine our own from billet aluminium. Rerouting and plumbing new hoses will also necessary, luckywise there is a hydraulic shop nearby.

69_340_GTS said:

Your steering shaft has to be cut. It is way, way, way too long. There is no adapter that will make that unnecessary! The adapter/u-joint/coupling is not the reason for cutting the shaft. The power steering box is longer. I did my Borgeson conversion many years ago and I went from manual to power steering, had to cut mine, but I can't recall the dimension. Isn't it in the instructions? Or, call them, I bet they know the exact dimension. Also, I had none of the problems you mention with the mounting holes. (I would not be surprised if their QC suffered when they moved down south, leaving CT for the cheaper labor.) Good luck!

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hey GTS... i have a lot of Barracuda parts. i'm pretty sure the OEM mopar power steering shafts are shorter than the OEM shafts that were used for manual steering cars because the original mopar PS box is a LOT bigger and longer than the aluminum manual box.

i ordered the "mopar type" OEM steering shaft connector that "Car Nut" above suggested. the way the original OEM connector is designed to go on the original steering shaft, there is about 2" of "play" or distance inside the connector when the OEM shaft is installed. that was a "driver steering wheel impact" safety design required by the Feds. in 1969. i'm hoping that the shorter OEM mopar shaft for their large PS box will bolt up to the connector that Car Nut suggested.

when i get the above OEM style connector, i'll take some pics with the OEM steering shaft and Borgeson box and post them.

fratzog lover said:

That was alot of work. Congrats Jim on not throwing anything through the picture window!

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back when i was in high school and was working on my BRAND NEW 1968 Barracuda 340 Formula S 4 speed fastback, me and one of my best buddies used to get a case of beer and a large portable radio and spend the weekends crawling under my car fixing stuff i had broke doing too much street racing or installing the "latest" "go faster" bolt-on item. for some reason, pulling the trans or rear diff or fighting with headers seemed to be "no big deal" back then. NOW that i'm 66, working on my cars is not "exactly" as easy and "fun" as it was 50 years ago with just "a case of beer and a big radio." LOL! this mini-starter, Borgeson PS box project has been EXTREMELY taxing on my patience! but the way that i do projects on these cars now is to just get in the "mindset" of completing "one small task at a time" - and then shutting down the garage, take a shower and watch old TV shows. and since i'm retired and don't have to get up at 7:00 a.m. to get to my high school classes on time, stretching out a project over days or weeks just doesn't matter. these cars just sit in my garage waiting for the next time i show up and turn on the lights. i have several other "new" Mopars that i just get in and "drive" every day. i would urge all my fellow "Senior citizen" FABO enthusiasts to just relax, take your time and just do a little bit of a project at a time. sooner or later, your beloved mopar will be done and you will still be in one piece, physically and mentally.

SOME NEW INFORMATION:

as with most modifications to old mopars, there are different ways that the same thing can be accomplished.

the OEM steering shafts come in two lengths - a shorter one for the cars with OEM power steering and a longer one for the manual steering equipped cars. i have a lot of parts. the 69 383 Cuda that is the subject of this thread had manual steering - the long steering shaft. i looked in my "parts bin" and discovered that i had a complete power steering column assembly. the first picture below is the two shafts lined up. the shorter shaft that you need for installing power steering is exactly 3 1/2" shorter than the manual steering shaft.

the Borgeson PS kit come with a "universal joint" assembly for the steering shaft. their instructions show how you need to cut the steering shaft if you have the manual steering pump. once the shaft is cut to the correct length, you then attach the Borgeson universal joint by drilling two holes (90 degrees opposite each other) through the pilot holes provided in the universal joint through the OEM shaft that you have cut off. HOWEVER - here's the good news!! if you have the shorter OEM power steering shaft or column assembly, you DO NOT have to cut this shaft! i found that if you hammer out the pin at the end of the OEM steering shaft (a short one), you can attach the Borgeson universal joint at the original shaft hole. you have to drill out the Borgeson universal joint to accept the larger OEM press pin (hardened steel) but Borgeson provides pilot holes already drilled on one side of this joint - so all you have to do is drill one of the original holes bigger (the size of the OEM steering shaft press pin) and continue through the other side of the Borgeson universal joint. i found that the OEM press pin is not a standard size drill bit and had to run the bit through several times and "wiggle" it around just enough to enlarge the hole in the Borgeson joint so the OEM press pin would go through the joint. this appears to be a safe procedure as the OEM press pin fits VERY tight in the OEM steering shaft. there does not appear to be any way the OEM press pin could come back out through the Borgeson universal joint. but just to be safe, i am going to install a stainless steel screw-type radiator hose clamp around the Borgeson joint over top of the OEM press pin.

the procedure i've followed is very easy if you have the OEM shorter power steering steering column and shaft. the OEM press pin can be removed from the OEM shaft by laying the shaft on the top of a vise and pounding the pin out of the shaft. you can then simply put the Borgeson universal joint on the OEM shaft up to the original press pin hole after you have drilled the universal joint out to accept the OEM press pin. i will note that the tolerances on these parts are VERY tight! i had to "ream out" the Borgeson universal joint with a stone cutting wheel from a dremel kit and then polish the inside with a small wire wheel brush on a drill. i also put a wire wheel on my drill and polished the end of the OEM mopar steering shaft. after a few cycles of this process, the universal joint slipped onto the OEM shaft. with this procedure, i did not have to cut off an original steering shaft. however, if you only have one steering shaft, doing this install by cutting the shaft and following the Borgeson instructions is also an option.

one last thing. one of the FABO guys told me about the adapter that is pictured that uses the OEM steering shaft parts at one end - the two steel squares that go over the pressed pin with the adapter sliding over top of these parts. this part is designed like the OEM mopar part only it is a little longer. this adapter WILL NOT work on a A body power steering conversion!! when you put the Borgeson box on the OEM mounting plate of the A body K frame, the box is "tilted" or "off center" about 20 degrees to the steering shaft. you can see this offset in one of the below pictures. apparently the B body cars have the steering box lined up "in line" with the steering column shaft with no off-set. i think i paid $225.00 for the noted steering shaft adapter that will not line up with the A body steering column. i have no use now for that adapter so if anyone out there in FABO land needs one, message me and we will work some price out. this adapter comes with the black adapter and all new internal parts, rubber gasket and snap ring.

sometimes when you are fixing or up-dating parts on old mopars you do "luck out" and the procedure i followed made this final assembly much easier. it only took me about an hour to do all the steps i noted above. i have to repaint the second steering column i found as it was out of a green interior car - but i've already painted some of the parts flat black and will be painting the rest of the column flat black tomorrow. if any one has any questions, let me know.. .















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Car Nut said:

If you don’t want to do any cutting. There’s a direct fit steering coupler that requires no cutting of the steering shaft. I don’t know if it’ll fit non power steering shafts though.

https://bergmanautocraft.com/product/direct-fit-steering-coupler/

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unfortunately, the above steering shaft coupler that is made like the OEM designed coupler will NOT WORK on a 69 Barracuda - or probably any A body car.