“Budget” Suspension Build Input

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Beams

Beams

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Modesto, CA
Car runs and drives, but suspension and front brakes are really tired. It definitely needs to get done. Purpose of the car use is street and backroads driving. I would like to do it right, and not have to tear the car apart in 6 months. @migsBIG thread about affordable shocks made me think it’d be fun to see how other folks would build my suspension (like an engine build opinion thread).

Some information on the car:
-1965 Dodge Dart Hardtop
- rusted floorpans are getting replaced during this effort
- Manual BBP brakes up front via 1973-1976 disc brake swap. I’m also planning to refresh/replace rotors, pads, hoses, wheel bearing and seals in this effort.
- BBP in the back via 8 1/4 rear 3.2x gear. Rebuilt rear drum brakes last year.
- Manual 24:1 steering.
- 215 60 15 cheapest radials all the way around

Here’s my plan:
- PST Super Front Kit; replaces effectively all bushings, idler arm, tie rods (~$400)
- Upgrade tie rods in that kit (guessing $50 up-charge)
- Greasable lower control arm pin (~$125)
- Lower control arm stiffening plates ($45)
- Addco Sway Bar (already purchased, but not installed yet)
- PST 1.03 Torsion Bar Deluxe Kit; includes torsion bar, seals, etc. ($400)
- Firm Feel adjustable strut rod (assuming $300 after shipping)
- DIY frame connectors ($80, hopefully cheaper)

This all puts me at $1,400. Budget-wise, I think I’ll be forced into shocks at ~$100 price point for all four (which at its core means I’m not going with Bilstein or Hotchkis). This taps out my budget.

Here’s some discussion:
- I haven’t fully decided on poly vs rubber. I don’t have the experience for a preference. I’d probably go rubber, except that I’d potentially mix bushing types with sway bar. If I went rubber, I could probably remove adjustable strut rod and greasable lower control arm pin. If I went this route I’d be able to put some cash toward rear suspension, which is being ignored in this scenario.
- Of course, there’s another option here. I could basically keep everything stock. I.e. rubber bushings, factory torsion bars. Maybe upgrade tie rod ends. LCA stiffening. Install my sway bar. This would leave money for rear suspension, but probably not Bilstein shocks.

So, at $1,500 bucks all in. What would you do differently?
 
Stock suspension rebuild with GOOD QUALITY parts is all you will ever need.
 
I'd rather have good shocks with rubber and stock strut rods than cheap shocks on poly bushes.

I had cheap Napa shocks on my car when I bought it and swapping them for a set of Viking double adjustables was a night and day difference.
 
Beams said:
After typing it all out, I like the KISS option.
Click to expand...
Indeed! I did the poly graphite bushings. No squeaks, nice and tight feel.

On the wife’s ‘67 Cúda, I went with standard QA1 on all 4 corners. We like it. Bushings are rubber. Once there shot, I’ll do poly graphite.

Simple but upgraded. Nothing fancy, just better.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Indeed! I did the poly graphite bushings. No squeaks, nice and tight feel.

On the wife’s ‘67 Cúda, I went with standard QA1 on all 4 corners. We like it. Bushings are rubber. Once there shot, I’ll do poly graphite.

Simple but upgraded. Nothing fancy, just better.
Click to expand...
Still using stock strut rods?
 
Phreakish said:
I'd rather have good shocks with rubber and stock strut rods than cheap shocks on poly bushes.

I had cheap Napa shocks on my car when I bought it and swapping them for a set of Viking double adjustables was a night and day difference.
Click to expand...
I’m with you—I halfway figured I could swap to nicer shocks in a couple years, just knowing that was the item I skimped on.
 
- 215 60 15 cheapest radials all the way around
Click to expand...

for me, this alone will eliminate several items on the list. narrow, non grippy tires aren't going to be able to take advantage of and utilize some components. don't get me wrong, adjustable strut rods are the cats ***, but they're totally unnecessary for what you're trying to accomplish.

i would also piece meal the components together selecting what i wanted instead of one stop shopping it.

i'd go with moog offset UCA bushings, and then a good upper ball joint.
on the LCA, i'd probably run rubber and not bother with the greaseable pins. same as upper just some decent lower joints. skip the stiffening plates.

skip the adjustable strut rods and just run poly bushings.

poly bushings on the sway bar-- always.

stock tie rods are fine.

100% upgrade the t-bars, this is critical. same with the subframe connectors.

that should leave you some bread for shocks.

the rear suspension is tricky for on big glaring reason: rear springs are expensive. but if you have at least some V8 springs back there, it'll be okay for the time being. you could tighten them up with poly bushings, but that's kind of false economy if they're some clapped out or weak tang /6 jobbers. so better to save your shekels and get some decent steel back there-- that matches your t-bar rates!! and then build/buy a front spring hanger to adjust ride height if needed.
 
I’m retired so money is a big concern but time isn’t. i knew my 65 Dart wagon conversion was going to be a long term project so over the past 5 or 6 years (or longer), i would buy parts as money permitted. Besides following the KISS rule, I would upgrade as needed. My formula for better or worse:

Front end - 73-76 upper control arms with genuine Moog offset bushings and NOS upper ball joints. Stock lower control arm with sway bar tab with NOS dis brake lower ball joint and NOS pivot pin bushing. 73-76 disc brake spindle and caliper adapter with new modern rotors and bearings, seals, etc. Calipers are NOS, pads and hoses are modern parts. Tie rods ends are NOS C Body with the solid sleeves.The sway bar is the beefy Helwig I’ve had for at least 10 years as is the PST 1.03 torsion bars. Shocks are the Bilstein adjustables.

EDIT- forgot abot the steering as well as the strut rods. Steering is a stock 65 PS box rebuilt by Steer and Gear in their Stage 3 modern feel. The pump was also rebuilt by them to compliment the rebuilt box. The strut rods Re the QA1 adjustables

The rear end is an A Body 8.75 with a 742 chunk with 3.23 gears. Brakes are Dr Diff 94-04 Mustang knockoffs with the caliper adapters provided by a FABO members. To compliment the big Helwig front sway bar, I’m using a .75 Addco rear sway bar. I had a 76 ABody cop rear sway bar but it would fit with the disc brakes. Sold it to fund some of the other parts. Shocks are Bilsteins.

Wheels are 14 in chrome Magnum 500s I’ve had forever still boxed up. Tires are 2.15x 70 - 14s and yes, the rims clear the rear rotors.

Lots of upgraded stock stuff with some decent aftermarket parts. One of these days I’ll finished the car and see how it all plays out.
 
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You can find all the stock replacement stuff on rock auto for cheep, think I’m into a full car set about 700 bucks for my 75 Hang 10 Dart. New tie rod ends, pitman arm, energy poly master kit, ball joints, stock rebuilt BBP calipers, rotors, wheels bearings, rear shoes and rebuild kit, new brake lines and flex lines.

As @junkyardhero said, with skinny non sticky tires, you don’t need Al the fancy stuff. Now if your planing for some new wheels and wider sticky tires by all means your plan sounds good…. But I would go with these over the FF strut rods.

bergmanautocraft.com

Strut Rod Kit - A Body Mopar - Bergman Auto Craft

Strut Rod Kit - A Body Mopar is an excellent replacement for OE strut rods with rubber bushings. Provides smooth bind free operation without unwanted motion
bergmanautocraft.com bergmanautocraft.com

I have the full FF suspension kit on my 72 Duster, including bilstine RCD shocks, 1.03 T bars, front and rear sway bars, SS rear springs, upper a arms, stock style strut bars, boxed lower arms, 20 to 1 box, poly bushing, 1 inch rear lowering blocks, and sticky Falken 615’s tires. My car handles like a new car, with great turn in, low body roll, is very predictable in how she reacts when the rear breaks lose. Only thing I’m going to change is the strut bars to the ones from Bergman.
 
I rebuilt my duster over the winter. I got a deal on some NOS .92" bars (stockers were .85, increases wheel rate from around 110 lb/in to 150 lb in), kept everything rubber and used moog offset UCA bushings, mevotech LCA bushings and ball joints, but I did use poly strut rod bushings. I added a hellwig sway bar (my car had none), which was a fantastic improvement. especially if you're keeping 14's, I'd downgrade some of your upgrades and spend the money on new rear springs as well, especially if yours are sagging a bit, and go with the 6 leaf HD. that increases the rear spring rate from 85lb/in to 120-130 lb/in.

I'm running KYB's, I haven't experienced an overly harsh ride with the .92" bars and 6 leaf HD springs.
 
As for boxing the LCA's, save your $$ from buying anything. Just take some 1/8" scrap steel you have laying around and weld some straps across them. (I think I put 3 across mine.) All you need to do is tie the 2 sides together so save your $$ and make this part of the deal!
 
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Since we are talking suspension upgrades, you might want to look into getting parts not just from PST, but ProForge as well. They make a lot of high quality Mopar suspension parts that will work just as well as the polygraphite Stuff that might be not as harsh for regular road driving. I’m currently looking at a combination of parts and will post on the forum when everything is ready to go on.
 
Beams said:
Car runs and drives, but suspension and front brakes are really tired. It definitely needs to get done. Purpose of the car use is street and backroads driving. I would like to do it right, and not have to tear the car apart in 6 months. @migsBIG thread about affordable shocks made me think it’d be fun to see how other folks would build my suspension (like an engine build opinion thread).

Some information on the car:
-1965 Dodge Dart Hardtop
- rusted floorpans are getting replaced during this effort
- Manual BBP brakes up front via 1973-1976 disc brake swap. I’m also planning to refresh/replace rotors, pads, hoses, wheel bearing and seals in this effort.
- BBP in the back via 8 1/4 rear 3.2x gear. Rebuilt rear drum brakes last year.
- Manual 24:1 steering.
- 215 60 15 cheapest radials all the way around

Here’s my plan:
- PST Super Front Kit; replaces effectively all bushings, idler arm, tie rods (~$400)
- Upgrade tie rods in that kit (guessing $50 up-charge)
- Greasable lower control arm pin (~$125)
- Lower control arm stiffening plates ($45)
- Addco Sway Bar (already purchased, but not installed yet)
- PST 1.03 Torsion Bar Deluxe Kit; includes torsion bar, seals, etc. ($400)
- Firm Feel adjustable strut rod (assuming $300 after shipping)
- DIY frame connectors ($80, hopefully cheaper)

This all puts me at $1,400. Budget-wise, I think I’ll be forced into shocks at ~$100 price point for all four (which at its core means I’m not going with Bilstein or Hotchkis). This taps out my budget.

Here’s some discussion:
- I haven’t fully decided on poly vs rubber. I don’t have the experience for a preference. I’d probably go rubber, except that I’d potentially mix bushing types with sway bar. If I went rubber, I could probably remove adjustable strut rod and greasable lower control arm pin. If I went this route I’d be able to put some cash toward rear suspension, which is being ignored in this scenario.
- Of course, there’s another option here. I could basically keep everything stock. I.e. rubber bushings, factory torsion bars. Maybe upgrade tie rod ends. LCA stiffening. Install my sway bar. This would leave money for rear suspension, but probably not Bilstein shocks.

So, at $1,500 bucks all in. What would you do differently?
Click to expand...

Looking at your tires and rest of parts, I would go rubber LCA bushing, moog offset UCA bushings. And not buy this stuff:
  • - Greasable lower control arm pin (~$125)
  • - Lower control arm stiffening plates ($45)
  • - Firm Feel adjustable strut rod (assuming $300 after shipping)
Should have $400 or so dollars for shocks
 
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Demonx2 said:
As for boxing the LCA's, save your $$ from buying anything. Just take some 1/8" scrap steel you have laying around and weld some straps across them. (I think i put 3 across mine.) All you need to do is tie the 2 sides together so save your $$ and make this part of the deal!
Click to expand...


1720071169744.jpeg
 
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