09+ Eagle and 6.4 VVT delete kit???

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Cevidicus

Cevidicus

CevidiGrinch
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What are your thoughts on this?

[ame]http://m.ebay.com/itm/131130114807?nav=SEARCH[/ame]


This is a HEMITRONIX kit for 2009 and up Mopar Gen III Hemis that are equipped with VCT and or MDS 5.7L and 6.4L.

"PATENT PENDING"

The kit contains

Complete timing set with chain, gears, tensioner, and guides.

Cam adapter to adapt the early 2003 through 2008 5.7L and all 6.1L cams.

(8) MDS eliminator spacers.

VCT solenoid eliminator kit.

THIS KIT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CAM AND VALVE TRAIN KIT
 
Can somebody explain to me why you would want to eliminate the VCT? Does it change the cam for economy instead of performance?
 
The fact that it allows you to use a non-vvt cam is cool. Basically it allows you to use a 392 core block in place of your 6.1 if the need arises.
 
In my opinion, the basic problem facing Hemi engine swaps has been the computer. There are a number of solutions to the problem but all of them are either difficult, and or expensive.

Hemi Tronix has a good idea. GM computers are very hackable, companies like HP tuners have been hacking GM computers for well over a decade and have software to allow the end user to control virtually every engine parameter. Yes there are companies that have hacked the Mopar computers but the level of sophistication is not as good. For a truly custom tune you need to go to a specific tuner. (As far as I know) Thus, Hemi Tronix ideas is to use a GM computer.

Using a GM computer is a good idea except that the Crankshaft Position Sensor Ring, and Camshaft Position Sensor Ring have differing notches. Thus to get a GM computer to work on a Mopar you need to swap in compatible rings. So far so good, by swapping in the computer you can use the cheap and hackable GM computer. Downside? Well by the time you install new tone rings, buy a used computer, and buy a wiring harness from Hemi Tronix you are basically in the price ballpark of many competing systems. I BELIEVE their setup is right around 2K. Now at first glance this seems a lot cheaper than FAST, but if you want to have full control you need to buy tuning software from a source like HP tuners for $400.00. Now you're at $2400.00 still cheaper than fast but you are quickly approaching the FAST price.

Comp cams sells their VVT lockout kit for $99.00, whether that would allow you to use pre 09 cams, I'm not sure, but it would allow you to run custom ground 09 and later cams. The key benefit of running a locked out cam phaser is that you'd be able to run more duration and lift without piston to valve interference. There are clearly benefits to having the ability to vary cam timing, but it does limit the amount of lift and duration you can achieve on your camshaft.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
My question is also why
You can limit or lock cam with Comp Cams limiter or lock
You still have to deal with computer to tell computer you changed the cam phasing


[FONT=&quot]Only benefit I could see is using a more robust timing chain if it fits under timing cover. Not sure it will?[/FONT]
 
Joe Dokes said:
In my opinion, the basic problem facing Hemi engine swaps has been the computer. There are a number of solutions to the problem but all of them are either difficult, and or expensive.

Hemi Tronix has a good idea. GM computers are very hackable, companies like HP tuners have been hacking GM computers for well over a decade and have software to allow the end user to control virtually every engine parameter. Yes there are companies that have hacked the Mopar computers but the level of sophistication is not as good. For a truly custom tune you need to go to a specific tuner. (As far as I know) Thus, Hemi Tronix ideas is to use a GM computer.

Using a GM computer is a good idea except that the Crankshaft Position Sensor Ring, and Camshaft Position Sensor Ring have differing notches. Thus to get a GM computer to work on a Mopar you need to swap in compatible rings. So far so good, by swapping in the computer you can use the cheap and hackable GM computer. Downside? Well by the time you install new tone rings, buy a used computer, and buy a wiring harness from Hemi Tronix you are basically in the price ballpark of many competing systems. I BELIEVE their setup is right around 2K. Now at first glance this seems a lot cheaper than FAST, but if you want to have full control you need to buy tuning software from a source like HP tuners for $400.00. Now you're at $2400.00 still cheaper than fast but you are quickly approaching the FAST price.

Comp cams sells their VVT lockout kit for $99.00, whether that would allow you to use pre 09 cams, I'm not sure, but it would allow you to run custom ground 09 and later cams. The key benefit of running a locked out cam phaser is that you'd be able to run more duration and lift without piston to valve interference. There are clearly benefits to having the ability to vary cam timing, but it does limit the amount of lift and duration you can achieve on your camshaft.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

Hemi Tuning has come along way over the last few years there is nothing that we can not do now when it comes to performance solutions.
 
Modern Muscle,

I keep hearing that Hemi Tuning has come a long way, and I like the idea of using a factory computer, but is there a stand alone piece of software that would allow me to use my laptop change the fuel and ignition tables on my motor?

I don't like the idea of someone emailing me a tune, and then loading onto a handheld computer and then uploading it to the computer. I just don't like the idea that computer is a black box, that only the "pros" get to modify.

I don't begrudge anyone from using a factory computer and I think it inherently has a lot of advantages, but I don't like the idea that my tune must come from some tuner.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
Modern Muscle,

I keep hearing that Hemi Tuning has come a long way, and I like the idea of using a factory computer, but is there a stand alone piece of software that would allow me to use my laptop change the fuel and ignition tables on my motor?

I don't like the idea of someone emailing me a tune, and then loading onto a handheld computer and then uploading it to the computer. I just don't like the idea that computer is a black box, that only the "pros" get to modify.

I don't begrudge anyone from using a factory computer and I think it inherently has a lot of advantages, but I don't like the idea that my tune must come from some tuner.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

Not without purchasing the license from Diablosport but however you can use the Diablosport Handheld to adjust timing and fuel and alot more if you a comfortable in making the adjustments., No need for a e-mail tune to do that.
 
Modern Muscle said:
Not without purchasing the license from Diablosport but however you can use the Diablosport Handheld to adjust timing and fuel and alot more if you a comfortable in making the adjustments., No need for a e-mail tune to do that.
Click to expand...

Good to know.

Thanks,

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
So, if I use the factory computer, and a DiabloSport Handheld, am I able to easily eliminate transmission control parameters?

And as far as limiting the VVT is concerned, for the DIY Megasquirt and similar crowd, it's worth it...
 
4speeds4me said:
So, if I use the factory computer, and a DiabloSport Handheld, am I able to easily eliminate transmission control parameters?
Click to expand...

Yes you can eliminate the transmission control. Essentially what they do is go into the computer and select manual transmission. You can then use a 904 or 727 or even a later 4 speed automatic.

And as far as limiting the VVT is concerned, for the DIY Megasquirt and similar crowd, it's worth it...
Click to expand...

MS3 allows for VVT. Although I don't know of anyone who has actually used the output on MS3 to make it actually work. You'd be at the bleeding edge so to speak.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Well, in my case it'll be an 833, but all good!lol

So, I'm considering the OE harness and computer. Does that mean I can also add the OBDII diagnostic connector, or is it unnecessary with the Diablosport?
 
I want to pull this one up from the grave as it quickly got off track, as I had the same question as the op.

I understand eliminating vvt as it creates issues with piston to valve in performance cams. I also see the benefit of this vs the comp lockout, because you can use the older, cheaper, cam core. And have a wider range of cam profiles. probably more practical for a transplant with aftermarket ECM than a late model vehicle with the abiity to read VVT. unless of course a very aggressive cam was desired.
 
A year and a half later and I still have not heard of or seen anyone use this kit. There has to be a reason for this. If it was a 'miracle' cure, people would be doing it by now. Or at least I would think so.

Haven't seen anyone run the hemitronix gm based unit either...
 
What we really need, is an aftermarket timing set that is adjustable. One that just bolts in and eliminates the cam phaser with a standard cam gear. That way any of the stock Vvt cams will work. How hard could that be? Wouldn't that be the simplest solution? Wouldn't it useful in a variety of applications?
 
I ended up talking with the mfg of this. Very nice guy. And as I guessed above, its more for swaps. The oem controller can control vvt. Any aftermarket pcm that im aware of, can not. I think many swap guys stick with the factory pcm,and relatively small cams, so its not needed. However in my case, eagle engine, swap package, I can use a fast Or holley ecu, go huge on the cam, and I dont need a big $ vvt nose cam, or worry about piston to valve. I also think that this is not mainstream or heard of yet...very little info online for the vvt delete as its usually not necessary. I searched for hours and hours to find this thread via google, and only even saw this kit after a tuning shop told me they heard of it.
 
I would not delete the VVT. In fact, I would buy a 6.4 crate motor, run the factor ecm and toss a cam in it an let it eat. 6.4 cam swaps with a manual are making 500 wheel horsepower these days.
 
Cevidicus said:
What we really need, is an aftermarket timing set that is adjustable. One that just bolts in and eliminates the cam phaser with a standard cam gear. That way any of the stock Vvt cams will work. How hard could that be? Wouldn't that be the simplest solution? Wouldn't it useful in a variety of applications?
Click to expand...

I am working on an adjustable timing set for use with the comp phaser lock kit. Hopefully next weekend I can get the motor pulled and torn down to start cutting the test gear.
 
If i change the crank reluctor to the 08 down reluctor and lock out the cam phaser can i run an 05 truck pcm. Are the cam signals the same on vvt cam reluctor?
 
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