1 7/8 Header Selection

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tjpatte

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So I’ve been digging through old threads on multiple sites trying to figure some headers for the Dart and pickings are kinda thin, especially if you want something available. Before I was trying to keep my P/S, but the only one available is TTI and apparently they aren’t that great for power.

I’m making 540hp and currently running Dougs, while nice headers and work with P/S, the 1 5/8 pipe diameter is too small for my power level. I’ve decided to shift to manual steering which opens up some options.

Here are the ones I see available.

Hedman Hustler
  • 75140 1 7/8 header pipe, 7 and 8 go through the inner fender (no problem for me)
  • 75141 1 7/8 stepped to 2, 7 and 8 go through the inner fender. Think Jonny Mac ran these, but haven’t found any pictures showing fitment.
Tubular Automotive

TDR 8 1 7/8 header pipe, no inner fender cuts. From the pictures I’ve seen the collector hangs really low (from older pictures), I drive my pile to the track and on the street so this seems like a deal buster. If someone has some pictures of recent installs I would love to see them, I would like to run these if possible.

Am I missing any?
 
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I'll assume you're talking later Dart ('67 and up) and a smallblock? Any special considerations, like W2 heads?
You could try Jardine Headers (Now Jerry Jardine's Header Palace)- they still have a lot of the old patterns on file.
You could also try ACP Headers, formerly Stahl Headers.
Schumacher has it's Tri-Ys, 1 5/8" into 2" then into a 2 1/2 collector, totally under chassis, fits power steering. Small Block Hi-Flow Tri-Y Under Chassis Headers
 
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Professor Fate said:
I'll assume you're talking later Dart ('67 and up) and a smallblock? Any special considerations, like W2 heads?
You could try Jardine Headers (Now Jerry Jardine's Header Palace)- they still have a lot of the old patterns on file.
You could also try ACP Headers, formerly Stahl Headers.
Click to expand...
Ah sorry, forgot some details. It’s a 1970 Dart with Edelbrock heads.

Thanks, I’ll check Jardines out!
 
Looks like Jardines is only on Facebook (don’t have an account) and the website link looks hacked or sold, may have to call.

Not sure the Schumacker’s would be much of an improvement over my Doug’s, but I’ve honestly never researched tri-y’s.

Appreciate the suggestions!
 
I have over the years test dozens of sets of headers on
our 340 Superstock cars and our 408 and 416 Stroker
A body.
Everything from 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 to 2 inch.

Nothing that did not cost $2500/3500 plus and was adjustable
performed as good as the now discontinued 1 3/4 Hooker Super Comps.
They were the header of choice for 20 years in Stock/Superstock until it
became a rich man's sport and they spend insane money on stepped/Merged Collector/
Stainless Steel works of art to pick up a few hundreds (not tenths) of a second.

That kind of money would buy you one heck of a lot more performance spent elsewhere.
Given that you are not running a crazy restricted Class like Stock/Superstock.

I still run them on a couple of our Superstockers today when we run conventional
rectangle ports. Some we port to a W2 shape exhaust port which requires custom
headers. The issue on your engine is the Edelbrock Heads are not really big ports
and flow numbers even when reworked (Similar to our stock/ss heads in flow).
If you had some large more "state of the art" heads and properly modifications
you would certainly be quicker with a 1 7/8 or even 2 inch tube header = Just
not the Edelbrock RPMs. I think the cut off would be around 300 CFM intake flow
where I would go 1 7/8.

I believe you would pick up at least several tenths or even more than that
over you Doug's 1 5/8.

A quite nice set of the 1 3/4 Hookers can be found for $300 to 400.

In my testing back to back (last Year) the Hooker Headers were well over a tenth faster that the TTI
Steps that cost me about a $1000.00 on our Superstocker.

Just my .02 Cents worth = For free
Your Mileage will Vary!
 
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W2 heads get the selection down even thinner.
 
GTX JOHN said:
I have over the years test dozens of sets of headers on
our 340 Superstock cars and our 408 and 416 Stroker
A body.
Everything from 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 to 2 inch.

Nothing that did not cost $2500/3500 plus and was adjustable
performed as good as the now discontinued 1 3/4 Hooker Super Comps.
They were the header of choice for 20 years in Stock/Superstock until it
became a rich man's sport and they spend insane money on stepped/Merged Collector/
Stainless Steel works of art to pick up a few hundreds (not tenths) of a second.

That kind of money would buy you one heck of a lot more performance spent elsewhere.
Given that you are not running a crazy restricted Class like Stock/Superstock.

I still run them on a couple of our Superstockers today when we run conventional
rectangle ports. Some we port to a W2 shape exhaust port which requires custom
headers. The issue on your engine is the Edelbrock Heads are not really big ports
and flow numbers even when reworked (Similar to our stock/ss heads in flow).
If you had some large more "state of the art" heads and properly modifications
you would certainly be quicker with a 1 7/8 or even 2 inch tube header = Just
not the Edelbrock RPMs. I think the cut off would be around 300 CFM intake flow
where I would go 1 7/8.

I believe you would pick up at least several tenths or even more than that
over you Doug's 1 5/8.

A quite nice set of the 1 3/4 Hookers can be found for $300 to 400.

In my testing back to back (last Year) the Hooker Headers were well over a tenth faster that the TTI
Steps that cost me about a $1000.00 on our Superstocker.

Just my .02 Cents worth = For free
Your Mileage will Vary!
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the info are your past experiences, always appreciate hearing from folks who have hands on experience.

Brian at IMM has gone through my heads twice, second time was adding 2.055 intake valves and more porting, not sure what they flow now.

I've been looking around for used ones, but I haven't really seen anything and I don't have FB so think I might be limited in on used options. I think Newbomb Turk is a big fan of the unobtainium Hooker 5303's, so that's out of the question. If you see something please let me know!
BrianT said:
I'm about to spend $1300 on a set for my W2 stroker. I'd like to hear more about this?
Click to expand...
Haven't seen any numbers, just what i gathered from reading some post. One person mentioned about them being difficult to install with a cable shifter due to the #5 pipe being in the way, but only saw one comment about that.
1971 CY Dodge Dart said:
Here’s another option.

MOPAR A-BODY SMALL BLOCK 1968-1976
Click to expand...
I had looked at them when someone mentioned them a while ago, the $1,800.00 price tag was a little to swallow thinking about how much gain I would really get. Might be something if I can't find anything else, would be nice to see a set installed.


Really appreciated everyone chiming in!
 
I have known Brian since he was a teenager.
We have sold each other cars over the years.

He is the best guy to go to in the West for small block
Mopars period!
 
GTX JOHN said:
I have known Brian since he was a teenager.
We have sold each other cars over the years.

He is the best guy to go to in the West for small block
Mopars period!
Click to expand...
Agreed, my son and I have always enjoyed going up there and seeing Brian and Fred!
 
tjpatte said:
Thanks for all the info are your past experiences, always appreciate hearing from folks who have hands on experience.

Brian at IMM has gone through my heads twice, second time was adding 2.055 intake valves and more porting, not sure what they flow now.

I've been looking around for used ones, but I haven't really seen anything and I don't have FB so think I might be limited in on used options. I think Newbomb Turk is a big fan of the unobtainium Hooker 5303's, so that's out of the question. If you see something please let me know!

Haven't seen any numbers, just what i gathered from reading some post. One person mentioned about them being difficult to install with a cable shifter due to the #5 pipe being in the way, but only saw one comment about that.

I had looked at them when someone mentioned them a while ago, the $1,800.00 price tag was a little to swallow thinking about how much gain I would really get. Might be something if I can't find anything else, would be nice to see a set installed.


Really appreciated everyone chiming in!
Click to expand...
I think a buddy has a set of hooker 5204s for sale if you are interested.
 
B3422w5 said:
I have the step 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 from them.
Great power makers. Not cheap, but quality piece
Click to expand...
They are really nice. I have a local friend who has some on a small block Nova. They are an equal opportunity price gouging company too. Bout the same price for Chevy stuff. lol I say gouging tongue in cheek. With those, you actually get what you pay for. They're a work of art and VERY thick tubes.
 
tjpatte said:
Thanks, I’ll keep it in mind!
Click to expand...


Didn’t you say you want to KEEP your power steering? If that is correct you can’t use a Hooker 5204 or the 5303 (which is what you should have) and you are limited to TTI stuff.

I have used a set of TA headers for a Pontiac and they are very nice.

I’ve seen pictures of the TA headers hanging low but I’m not sure that is always the case.

Power steering on these cars kills header selection.

Edit: ok I read your post closer. If you are going to manual steering g than Hooker 5204 and 5303 will fit.

The 5204 is 1.750 inch with a 3 inch collector. Pretty small for 400 plus inches.

The 5303 is 1.875 with a 3 inch collector. I run those on 340 inches.

The other option is the Hedman stuff. I’ve used those BUT the biggest issue is the 7 and 8 tubes go out the fender. I didn’t want to cut my car up and I got lucky and found the 5303’s.

If you can live with cutting a hole in the fender and having one tube go out the fender well then it’s a very nice header.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Didn’t you say you want to KEEP your power steering? If that is correct you can’t use a Hooker 5204 or the 5303 (which is what you should have) and you are limited to TTI stuff.

I have used a set of TA headers for a Pontiac and they are very nice.

I’ve seen pictures of the TA headers hanging low but I’m not sure that is always the case.

Power steering on these cars kills header selection.

Edit: ok I read your post closer. If you are going to manual steering g than Hooker 5204 and 5303 will fit.

The 5204 is 1.750 inch with a 3 inch collector. Pretty small for 400 plus inches.

The 5303 is 1.875 with a 3 inch collector. I run those on 340 inches.

The other option is the Hedman stuff. I’ve used those BUT the biggest issue is the 7 and 8 tubes go out the fender. I didn’t want to cut my car up and I got lucky and found the 5303’s.

If you can live with cutting a hole in the fender and having one tube go out the fender well then it’s a very nice header.
Click to expand...
Yep, manual box showed up Thursday, Mancini adapter tomorrow and have been sitting on my QA1 K member. Finally realized I needed bigger headers with what the stroker is putting out and have been looking for a box to show up on here. If I could find some 5303's it would be a done deal.

Since they aren't available, and don't expect any to show up anytime soon, I'll need to find something else. I've seen pictures of Headman 1 7/8 75140 headers on justinP61's Dart and I like the ground clearance. Summit doesn't show them being available, but Jegs says they can get them by third week in October, may just need to order some and see. The TA's would definitely work except for the clearance from what I've seen. They look like real quality headers and maybe the newer ones ride higher, just haven't seen anything, may need to go snoopin around moparts or yellowbullet to see if there are any pictures there.

Thanks for the input!
 
The 5303 are adjustable headers as I recall.
I have had nothing but trouble with that design
on street cars with them leaking at the joints and
the noise made me crazy!

As I recall, the 5304 are a copy of the 1 3/4 race car header
that were built on the same jig as the race headers without
the slip joints and a collector for a street application. I had a
involvement back it those days with Hooker in their California days
many years ago. The tube length worked pretty without additional
length installed unless the car was very heavy.

Jost my .02 = For Free!
 
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Our W2 Headers are professionally fabricated to our specs that
we have developed over the years. We had zero luck with the few commercial
brands that were ever available.

Actually, they are my son Jon's stuff. I would have to discuss the possible
sale with him and possible price. He does not frequent these forums (Thinks that
I am Crazy).

For a little more than the TTIs = You could have a set built for your application.
Unfortunately, the fabricators we use are all out West. Most of the better ones
have aged out.
 
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