11 second smallblock...how would you build it?

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mshred

mshred

The Green Manalishi
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hey guys,
ive always told myself that if i can break into the 11's with a smallblock ill be a happy kid (after all, thats way faster than anything ive ever driven). I have my ideas of how it could be done, and i probably wont get around to this for a while since i just want to get my car on the road...but i think its fun to brainstorm and see what everyones ideas are...i have some limitations, so hopefuly this doesnt damper it too much...maybe some real life combos will help

must have
-stock stroke longblock (can be slightly overbored, but no stroker motors...not interested and neither is my wallet)
-3.91 gear or less, will be a street/strip car
-28" tall tire, no slicks (again street strip car)
-No limit on heads, but i find it MUCH more interesting to see someone do it on a factory iron head like an x or j...these combos are more interesting
-must be able to idle in traffic and NOT overheat
-must run on pump gas...the lower the better

if its a stickshift combo, even better! i know this list might seem somewhat limiting, or some may be even saying "wow, he cant figure it out himself how to do it", but like i said, im looking for your opinions...what you would use, or even better how you've actually done it

fire away!:cheers:
Matthew
 
Even high 11s is hard without slicks, maybe if you run nitto drag radials?

Also 3.91 may get it, but without a stroker most folks need a 4.10 or 4.30.

I would lean towards a comp cam roller gring in the 280 range, at least 10.5-11 compression static, air gap, 750 ish size carb, good ignition, tti heads with 2.5 or 3" pipes x style.

also for an auto trans in the 2600-3000 stall speed range and a little on the loose side.

Also you are going to need decent suspension too so that you can get very good 60' times.

As for the heads a nice warmed up set of 2.02 x head or Js should do it mith port matching, maybe a trick taller skinny valve stem like a chevy and a good 3-4 angle vavle job. Doing at least that with the port matcing will not hurt the street drive and I think give you some more air i nthe 4500-6000 range that you are going to need.

As for the car, if you can shed 300-400 lbs it is like adding a bunch mor eHP too. So keep that in mind as well, good luvk and I am sure you will get a lot more feedback buddy:)
 
djwhog said:
Even high 11s is hard without slicks, maybe if you run nitto drag radials?

Also 3.91 may get it, but without a stroker most folks need a 4.10 or 4.30.

I would lean towards a comp cam roller gring in the 280 range, at least 10.5-11 compression static, air gap, 750 ish size carb, good ignition, tti heads with 2.5 or 3" pipes x style.

also for an auto trans in the 2600-3000 stall speed range and a little on the loose side.

Also you are going to need decent suspension too so that you can get very good 60' times.

As for the heads a nice warmed up set of 2.02 x head or Js should do it mith port matching, maybe a trick taller skinny valve stem like a chevy and a good 3-4 angle vavle job. Doing at least that with the port matcing will not hurt the street drive and I think give you some more air i nthe 4500-6000 range that you are going to need.

As for the car, if you can shed 300-400 lbs it is like adding a bunch mor eHP too. So keep that in mind as well, good luvk and I am sure you will get a lot more feedback buddy:)
Click to expand...

hey man, i appreciate the response!

I figure that the 3.91's will be a limitation, but i dont think it would even make a slight difference by going to 4.10's to warrant swapping them out, and with 4.30's i will not be able to cruise on the highway with a 4 speed and 28" tire...oh and as far as tires go, i plan to run an MT ET street (the bias plys that are pretty much slicks with two lines down them), so depending how you look at it, some consider them a slick.

As for the rest of it, sounds pretty good for a future build as i have most covered- i have a good ignition, 750hp carb, air gap manifold, 3inch x pipe exhaust...All i would need is some porting on the heads, new cam (when you say 280 duration are you talking adv. or at .50"?), and maybe bigger headers (currently have 1-5/8's)
 
Start with an 80s vintage LA 360 core. Block: align hone, studded mains, square deck to 9.58, bore .030, plate hone, enlarge oil passages, Index/ grind/polish factory crank, SIR rods, SRP flat tops, internal competition balance. Heads (308 castings) new guides, cut for dual springs, unleaded seats, fit 2.05/1.65 stainless valves, 5 angle valve job, stage 2ish porting (245-250cfm), mill to 65cc chamber. .028 head gasket. I'd run some sintered iron rockers, HD shafts, solid flat tappet in the 250-255°@.050 range, M1 single plane port matched and plenum blended. Holley 4150 series 800cfm DP. Ends up just shy of 11:1 and will run on pump premium(sorry, with having to run the factory iron head you really kill any possibility of running the number with the stated support parts on low octane). The problem with running mild gearing is you have to make more power to accelerate it as fast. So instead of a milder engine with 4.30s you need a wilder engine to pull 3.91s.
 
I don't think you are going to get it done inside your requirements. Traction variables on the street means you will need to build for quicker than high 11s to reliably run 11s on the street.


My car meets all your requirements except 2 (or it did before I started putting stock parts back on).

-stock stroke longblock (check….340)

-3.91 gear (check)

-28" tall tire (I run a 26" tall tire on the street)

-No limit on heads (check….x-heads with a butt load of money in them)

-must be able to idle in traffic and NOT overheat (check. runs great and never gets hot)

-must run on pump gas (nope. I can limp around on super but if I want to hammer on it I need at least 1/2 a tank of 110)

-4 Speed


Mine is a very old school build (High Compression and High RPM).

Standard stroke 340

Ported X-Heads

Big Solid Roller Cam

Victor 340 Intake

Holley 800DP

Bottom end and valve train built for a reliable 8000rpm

12:1 Compression

11.78 @ 118mph
 
The only issue with 300hp of bottle is you need bottles and bottles.. Otherwise you have a nice car that's a pig...lol. To me, the only budget about N2O is the initial cost. After that, it's a crack addiction... And I ran it for 4 years on my daily drivers...lol.
 
I think a stock 318 with a custom Blow-through single turbo system is the best...no bottle to refill....easily tuneable via Boost Controller "Knob".

Cheap to replace.....probably run 11's all day, with or without slicks...and put wayyyyyyyyy more of a smile on your face when you nail it!

But like 1968FormulaS340 said....its quite complicated to do it under your limitations.
 
and I mean....if these guys can do it....why cant YOU?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzsVaGTdW6I"]YouTube- Single Turbo Mustang 5.0 After Install[/ame]
 
hey guys thanks for the replies!

Moper, sounds like a pretty stout combo going there! i was thinking something along the lines of a 360 with good machine work done since i already have the extra cubes over the 340...I want to stay away from stroker cranks if possible, and reuse as many stock bottom end parts as well. What are SIR rods? and since i have a flywheel that can also be setup for external balance, can i just leave the whole bottom end that way? is there a disadvantage? and just out of curiosity, why the 308 heads over something like a J or X..is it because its a newer casting?

1968formulas340, i think you misunderstood me...yes its a street car, but im not trying to run 11's on the street as in "racing on the street"...Something that i can drive on the street on pump gas (even premium is okay), yet when i take it to the track can run at the very least a 11.99...thats what will make me happy...your combo definatly sounds pretty sweet, especially tucked away in that stock looking cuda...wolf in sheeps clothing for sure.

and i realize my gear is also the limiting factor here as well, but part of the reason has to do with power adder later on...I want the highway cruisability, but i also plan on sticking a plate on from say a 150-200 hit...Its something i should have mentioned earlier i guess, but im just trying to get an idea of what just the motor would do...that being said though, what would i do differently for nitrous use besides using forged pistons and gapping the rings accordingly?

i know this is quite the set of restrictions, but its what i have to work in, plus i always find it more interesting when something is built to fit certain expectations, its more of a challenge...thats why im wondering if this is even possible in the guidelines i laid out

thanks for all the input so far guys! keep the suggestions coming, but please remember im not interested in strokers, expensive heads, 4.56 gears, etc..
 
Prine said:
and I mean....if these guys can do it....why cant YOU?

YouTube- Single Turbo Mustang 5.0 After Install
Click to expand...

hey Prine,

i looked into the whole boost thing before, and to be honest with you its alot for me to grasp. I just dont think its the right thing for me at this point, especially considering how much it will all cost in the end...Its also more stuff to go wrong, and on a street car i want as little worry as possible...but one day i would like to build a turbo car, something about them over superchargers that fascinates me8)
 
One last thought on the gearing and 1/4 times.

If you have the cash run the 4.30s and get an overdrive unit, or get a 4spd with 1st 3 gears normal and a tall OD 4th, or if you have the bucks get a 5speed tremec etc.

But it is hard to have your cake and eat it as they say, but if you look at new cars most have 5, 6 and some imports even more gears.

It is a way to take a little power and stretch is top and bottom to help both and save on the MPG too.

Good luck it can be done...

PS dont over cam for a street car..
 
3.91 gears are great especially if you plan on hitting it with spray...with spray are you still thinking 11's? If thats the case its almost ridiculously easy to make it! I have a stock stroke 340 thats .040 over 10.1 TRW pistons for pump gas! stock rods and crank unported 308 heads with a 2.02 intalke valve in them .508 hyd cam runs great in traffic never overheats torker II single plane 750 hp holley 1/5/8 headers 3 inch exhaust 3000 stall and the EVIL KILLER 4.56 gear with 28 inch tall tires. its runs 11.90's at 110-112mph not even breathing hard...so take out the 4.56 put in a 3.91 lose what? 2-3 tenths? now runs 12.20's to 12.30's then throw in 150hp plate and now runs 11.30's...whats so tough about that? I run M/T ET Streets too. My engine is essentially a pile of used parts and it runs good
 
mshred, didn't you see my track results thread & the wimpy *** combo i'm running :read2:, i'm running on 87 octane, through the mufflers & shifting at 5200, pulling 12.5s, with just alittle tinkering it'll run a 12.4 i'm sure, if not a 12.3, do you realize how easy it'll be for me to get my car running in the 11.9 range at this point, just alittle more stall, a decent cam (nothing crazy) & a larger carb, & it'll still run on 87 octane & run the #s, but if i want 11.5s & not touch anything engine/tranny wise, a 100 shot will get me there & not even faze the engines internals, its very easy to pull this off in an A body, to simplify things, stay away from PS/PBs & AC, lighten up the car abit like racing seats, but still keep it comfortable, & either get a light weight disc set-up or stay with 10" manual brakes all around, if i ever start running around 108+ i'll start running 1/8 mile & no more then the 1000ft. with the manuals, what i like about them is theres no drag like factory disc brakes & alot less weight.
 
DERICKS said:
3.91 gears are great especially if you plan on hitting it with spray...with spray are you still thinking 11's? If thats the case its almost ridiculously easy to make it! I have a stock stroke 340 thats .040 over 10.1 TRW pistons for pump gas! stock rods and crank unported 308 heads with a 2.02 intalke valve in them .508 hyd cam runs great in traffic never overheats torker II single plane 750 hp holley 1/5/8 headers 3 inch exhaust 3000 stall and the EVIL KILLER 4.56 gear with 28 inch tall tires. its runs 11.90's at 110-112mph not even breathing hard...so take out the 4.56 put in a 3.91 lose what? 2-3 tenths? now runs 12.20's to 12.30's then throw in 150hp plate and now runs 11.30's...whats so tough about that? I run M/T ET Streets too. My engine is essentially a pile of used parts and it runs good
Click to expand...

Dericks, if you hit it with a "solid" 150 shot & "truely get 150 HP you'll be in the 10s i'll guaranty from a 12.2/12.3 & a fairly mild combo. I dropped 1.3 & 13 mph in my 6sp. camaro with a 100 NX system, & it even had a window switch & wasn't on the nitrous all the time through the runs, it was set to come on at 3000 & kick off at 5600, i shifted at 6000.
 
JoeDust451 said:
Dericks, if you hit it with a "solid" 150 shot & "truely get 150 HP you'll be in the 10s i'll guaranty from a 12.2/12.3 & a fairly mild combo. I dropped 1.3 & 13 mph in my 6sp. camaro with a 100 NX system, & it even had a window switch & wasn't on the nitrous all the time through the runs, it was set to come on at 3000 & kick off at 5600, i shifted at 6000.
Click to expand...

Even better! I say this is an easy project dont you? Take my car again....with 3.91's and then port the heads along with a more up to date cam grind and a much better intake that my ancient torkerII and I say it run 11's all day! Then hit it with spray...and jeez i'm down on cubes and torque with my short stroke weak knee'd 340! lol
 
mshred said:
hey guys,
ive always told myself that if i can break into the 11's with a smallblock ill be a happy kid (after all, thats way faster than anything ive ever driven). I have my ideas of how it could be done, and i probably wont get around to this for a while since i just want to get my car on the road...but i think its fun to brainstorm and see what everyones ideas are...i have some limitations, so hopefuly this doesnt damper it too much...maybe some real life combos will help

must have
-stock stroke longblock (can be slightly overbored, but no stroker motors...not interested and neither is my wallet)
-3.91 gear or less, will be a street/strip car
-28" tall tire, no slicks (again street strip car)
-No limit on heads, but i find it MUCH more interesting to see someone do it on a factory iron head like an x or j...these combos are more interesting
-must be able to idle in traffic and NOT overheat
-must run on pump gas...the lower the better

if its a stickshift combo, even better! i know this list might seem somewhat limiting, or some may be even saying "wow, he cant figure it out himself how to do it", but like i said, im looking for your opinions...what you would use, or even better how you've actually done it

fire away!:cheers:
Matthew
Click to expand...

You'll have to make 500HP to run 11's with that gear/tire combo. So start with that.
When I first finished my duster, it was street driven for a while with a 9" converter and a 28" tire and 4.56 gear.
My W2 headed 360 made just over 500HP back then and it ran 11.50's at 119mph. So as you can see it takes a healthy engine when you have a soft leaving car.
You CAN do it with factory iron but they are crack prone. So you always take a chance on them ending up junk after some time. Now if you do most of the work yourself, then it's no biggie if they crack later on. But if have to pay someone for that work....OUCH!!

You'll have to spend money somewhere. My 360 was stock crank, stock rods, hard blocked stock block and KB hyperutectic pistons!
Brian
 
Did you ever mention what type of car and weigh were working with here? You can make much less HP and run the number if the car is light. My car weighs 3150 with me in it and a half tank of gas....based off the weight and speed at the end of the quarter mile Wallace racing calculators puts me at approximately 330hp at the rear wheels and just under 400 hp at the crank to run 11.90's. put that baby on a diet!
 
DERICKS said:
Did you ever mention what type of car and weigh were working with here? You can make much less HP and run the number if the car is light. My car weighs 3150 with me in it and a half tank of gas....based off the weight and speed at the end of the quarter mile Wallace racing calculators puts me at approximately 330hp at the rear wheels and just under 400 hp at the crank to run 11.90's. put that baby on a diet!
Click to expand...

Be carefull of online calculators...
 
Chassis, Chassis, Chassis is more of a key to get an ET than HP/TQ.

Lots of 10 second engines in 12 second cars.

A true 400hp in an average weight a-body 3200# should be a mid-high 11 second car. Really needs to 60' about 1.65 or better.
 
ou812 said:
Be carefull of online calculators...
Click to expand...

You have tons of experince and a a great running car...how much HP do you think my 340 makes based off averages? 10.1 340 .040 trw's stock rods stock crank 308 heads unported witha 2.02 intake valve 1.5 roller rockers Torker II single plane intake 750 hp holly comp cams hyd flat tappet .508 nostalgia plus its 248/252 at .050 msd 6 AL and 1 5/8 headers. Whats your educated guess what it makes?
 
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