11 second smallblock...how would you build it?

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crackedback said:
Chassis, Chassis, Chassis is more of a key to get an ET than HP/TQ.

Lots of 10 second engines in 12 second cars.

A true 400hp in an average weight a-body 3200# should be a mid-high 11 second car. Really needs to 60' about 1.65 or better.
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So true, So true.
 
DERICKS said:
You have tons of experince and a a great running car...how much HP do you think my 340 makes based off averages? 10.1 340 .040 trw's stock rods stock crank 308 heads unported witha 2.02 intake valve 1.5 roller rockers Torker II single plane intake 750 hp holly comp cams hyd flat tappet .508 nostalgia plus its 248/252 at .050 msd 6 AL and 1 5/8 headers. Whats your educated guess what it makes?
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What it makes on a dyno would be different than at the track given air quality differences. What does your car 60ft.?
I'd guess your making close to what the calculator says. But it's not a real tool to measure by. I've run alot of different known cars through some of these calculators and some are dead on or close, and others are way off.
Alot of it is converter and chassis. We race cars not engines. I just know that a true STREET car that is traction limited AND LAUNCH LIMITED will need more HP to get in the 11's.
Where you race is also important...it takes more power to run at 3000ft than at 500ft. above sea level.
 
ou812 said:
What it makes on a dyno would be different than at the track given air quality differences. What does your car 60ft.?
I'd guess your making close to what the calculator says. But it's not a real tool to measure by. I've run alot of different known cars through some of these calculators and some are dead on or close, and others are way off.
Alot of it is converter and chassis. We race cars not engines. I just know that a true STREET car that is traction limited AND LAUNCH LIMITED will need more HP to get in the 11's.
Where you race is also important...it takes more power to run at 3000ft than at 500ft. above sea level.
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oops
 
ou812 said:
What it makes on a dyno would be different than at the track given air quality differences. What does your car 60ft.?
I'd guess your making close to what the calculator says. But it's not a real tool to measure by. I've run alot of different known cars through some of these calculators and some are dead on or close, and others are way off.
Alot of it is converter and chassis. We race cars not engines. I just know that a true STREET car that is traction limited AND LAUNCH LIMITED will need more HP to get in the 11's.
Where you race is also important...it takes more power to run at 3000ft than at 500ft. above sea level.
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I'm pretty much sea level in MI here so its about as good as it gets. My car will 60 foot 1.65-1.67 when the greaseway I race at holds up lol otherwise its in the low low 1.70's My car is down on power and I use 28x13.5x15 ET Streets so traction is not really an issue, I would like to bump the converter up another 500 rpm on the flash but fear traction problems if I do.
 
hey guys, all good suggestions and feedback here! this is what i was after, everyone's opinion on how to do it...as far as my car goes, i wasnt so clear about it since i was just looking for general, but since this has become more specific:

71 Scamp with a 340 currently...weight is probably about factory, no real lightening has been done other than no a/c, no power brakes, no power steering. I realize that chassis is just as if not more important than horsepower since all the power in the world means nothing if it cant get to the ground. Right now ive got /6 leaf springs with a leaf added 4 clamps in front, 1 rear, adjustable snubber, comp 3 ways in the rear, front end all worn out stock /6 t-bars and shocks...was thinking of later this summer changing to the calvert 90/10's depending on cash to see if they will make a difference...This future combo im planning will be going behind an 833 with a v-gate and slickshift synchros

regarding the nitrous, its something id like to do in the future, and id like to limit myself to low 11's just because i know anything faster will be a ticking time bomb for a 23 spline 833 (and no, im not switching to an auto)...in reality, if i can actually get the car to run consistent high 11's on the motor, ill probably be a happy enough guy to not even need the gas anymore. However, id like to build with it in mind for the future, so its a consideration during the buildup

in regards to heads, im so very tempted to pick up a set of Brians RHS heads, but because money is tight, i have to figure out first how much doing the stock heads will be...if its close to the price of the new ones, id definatly spring for those

anyways, please keep all the opinions coming! all the suggestions are eye opening and help out alot!
 
JoeDust451 said:
mshred, didn't you see my track results thread & the wimpy *** combo i'm running :read2:, i'm running on 87 octane, through the mufflers & shifting at 5200, pulling 12.5s, with just alittle tinkering it'll run a 12.4 i'm sure, if not a 12.3, do you realize how easy it'll be for me to get my car running in the 11.9 range at this point, just alittle more stall, a decent cam (nothing crazy) & a larger carb, & it'll still run on 87 octane & run the #s, but if i want 11.5s & not touch anything engine/tranny wise, a 100 shot will get me there & not even faze the engines internals, its very easy to pull this off in an A body, to simplify things, stay away from PS/PBs & AC, lighten up the car abit like racing seats, but still keep it comfortable, & either get a light weight disc set-up or stay with 10" manual brakes all around, if i ever start running around 108+ i'll start running 1/8 mile & no more then the 1000ft. with the manuals, what i like about them is theres no drag like factory disc brakes & alot less weight.
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honestly man, your setup makes me jealous for how good it runs!!! lol...i currently have a 340 .30 over, 10.5:1 cr, stock x heads, 1-5/8 headers, 3 inch exhaust, comp magnum 280H cam, airgap, 750hp holley, 3.91 gear and best et guesses im getting is low 13's! go figure! lol..but air and track definatly make huge differences...

but you have me wondering and asking something i never have before....this goal of mine, is there anyway the magnums can reach it? this doesnt have to be strictly LA, im just looking for the best, cheapest way to hit the 11's with what i outlined
 
mshred said:
honestly man, your setup makes me jealous for how good it runs!!! lol...i currently have a 340 .30 over, 10.5:1 cr, stock x heads, 1-5/8 headers, 3 inch exhaust, comp magnum 280H cam, airgap, 750hp holley, 3.91 gear and best et guesses im getting is low 13's! go figure! lol..but air and track definatly make huge differences...

but you have me wondering and asking something i never have before....this goal of mine, is there anyway the magnums can reach it? this doesnt have to be strictly LA, im just looking for the best, cheapest way to hit the 11's with what i outlined
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Thanks for the complaments, nothing to get jealous about, its just a very simple combo, i feel this time i'm on to something i like more then a big carb'd, big cammed, high compression ride that can't be driven on the street & needs race fuel, i DEFINITLY swear by these Indy RHS heads, for the price they just can't be beat, when you say magnums, are you talking engine/heads or that comp magnum cam? Can't speak for the cam, As for the engine, tell you this, i'm in the market for a spare 360 magnum shortblock for a backup.

What is your Alt. up there? The track i race at is 1650ft, so its not quite sea level, but its not bad.

Its hard to dictate how to get your car in the 11.9s NA from where your at, if you've already dropped the AC, PS & PBs, thats about all i did, i did install jegs racing seats, mine still retains all its glass, metal & steel bumpers, along with most interior parts, so its not stripped.

You need to mainly consintrate on getting good 60ft. times, so whatever that takes, the easiest is gears & converter. All i would need to do at this point to acheive a solid 12.2/12.3 car is a race type converter thats still streetable & say a 4.11 gear without lifting as much as a VC. & still have a stockish idle shifting at 5200, sweet ha 8).

One more thing as i'm reading your post, did i read that right! Did you say low 13 "GUESSES"!!!, is this your guess or others??You need to go take it to the track, don't guess, & if your getting these guesses from members, "shame on you"!! It was "shame on me" when i listened, i was told by many it would never break a 12.99 with what i had, again, "shame on me", because i knew this car felt really strong, & i've run in the 10s for 2 yrs. & many passes in my duster, they almost had me convinced untill i ran that 13.07 3 weeks ago spinning the tires on a 1.94.
 
JoeDust451 said:
Thanks for the complaments, nothing to get jealous about, its just a very simple combo, i feel this time i'm on to something i like more then a big carb'd, big cammed, high compression ride that can't be driven on the street & needs race fuel, i DEFINITLY swear by these Indy RHS heads, for the price they just can't be beat, when you say magnums, are you talking engine/heads or that comp magnum cam? Can't speak for the cam, As for the engine, tell you this, i'm in the market for a spare 360 magnum shortblock for a backup.

What is your Alt. up there? The track i race at is 1650ft, so its not quite sea level, but its not bad.

Its hard to dictate how to get your car in the 11.9s NA from where your at, if you've already dropped the AC, PS & PBs, thats about all i did, i did install jegs racing seats, mine still retains all its glass, metal & steel bumpers, along with most interior parts, so its not stripped.

You need to mainly consintrate on getting good 60ft. times, so whatever that takes, the easiest is gears & converter. All i would need to do at this point to acheive a solid 12.2/12.3 car is a race type converter thats still streetable & say a 4.11 gear without lifting as much as a VC. & still have a stockish idle shifting at 5200, sweet ha 8).

One more thing as i'm reading your post, did i read that right! Did you say low 13 "GUESSES"!!!, is this your guess or others??You need to go take it to the track, don't guess, & if your getting these guesses from members, "shame on you"!! It was "shame on me" when i listened, i was told by many it would never break a 12.99 with what i had, again, "shame on me", because i knew this car felt really strong, & i've run in the 10s for 2 yrs. & many passes in my duster, they almost had me convinced untill i ran that 13.07 3 weeks ago spinning the tires on a 1.94.
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Hey Joe, its the magnum motors, not the cam that im interested in. Im wondering how much power i can make with an LA block with something like the RHS magnum heads and if it will get me to my goals easier than or harder than a traditional LA style head...I have heard magnum's can't be ported to flow very well, dont rev very high, and cant accept high lift cams...of course im not very educated, which is why i ask if any of this is true and the viability of a magnum setup for what im looking for.

I realize alot of et is in the chassis...my tranny has a deep first (3.35) so im hoping that will help off the line performance and lowering my 60's, although my sportsman tires might just make it bad anyways...as far as the guesses go, i hope the people who have told me those numbers are wrong, because if it ran faster id be on cloud nine!8)


anybody else care to share their combos or opinions?
 
Forget stock heads and putting money in them, buy a set of RHS or Iron Ram heads from Hughes Engines. Dollars for horsepower they're better and when you port an old head and throw some real compression in your'e running a good chance of cracking them. Solid lift cams are good, solid roller is better but costly. Your'e going to have to spin that motor so over build it to survive 7000 rpm but should get away with 6000. Make the car as light as possible and suspension, weight transfer is critical if you want to launch with some power and not blow the tires loose. Pump gas will definetly be questionable. Good Luck
 
mshred said:
Hey Joe, its the magnum motors, not the cam that im interested in. Im wondering how much power i can make with an LA block with something like the RHS magnum heads and if it will get me to my goals easier than or harder than a traditional LA style head...I have heard magnum's can't be ported to flow very well, dont rev very high, and cant accept high lift cams...of course im not very educated, which is why i ask if any of this is true and the viability of a magnum setup for what im looking for.

I realize alot of et is in the chassis...my tranny has a deep first (3.35) so im hoping that will help off the line performance and lowering my 60's, although my sportsman tires might just make it bad anyways...as far as the guesses go, i hope the people who have told me those numbers are wrong, because if it ran faster id be on cloud nine!8)


anybody else care to share their combos or opinions?
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You can make good power with the LA, i personally like the magnums now, plus there easier to find, & there not so questionable when it comes to there age & block issues, are you not wanting to run a roller cam? Forget any older used head, The market is coming out with better & cheaper priced heads that work very well like the RHSs, you want my advice, this is what i would do if i were you at this point.

1st. Find you a good running 93-02 360 magnum. Then you can strip it down to the shortblock (because thats all you really want), if the heads are cracked, junk em, the rest of the stuff like TB & intake/manifolds/plumbing, all the extra crap thats on the engine, try & sell it for what you can, i had to give mine away lol.

Then buy a set of RHS magnum heads, talk to Brian, his prepped heads for 1200.00 or so will be all you ever need i'm sure, i bought mine from Hughes for 875.00, but all they have is there 1110 springs, the guide bosses are limited to .500 lift, but thats ok for me at this point, i'm sure Brians heads are takin care of in this area for larger lifts.

I would then get a nice hyd. roller, RPM intake, & carb no bigger then a 750dp, some headers & good ign., you see how well mine runs, & it runs on "87" octane, no premium here. I'll garuantee i can get a 12.4 out of this car without changing anything.
 
Yeah, I'm working on getting all of the RHS heads we sell and the spec's on our website. When you run the show, do half of all the work, and maintain your own website time gets limited in a hurry!!
But I am working on it.

And yes, our heads will take an actual .630 lift with no issues.
 
Heres my combo has gone 11.79@111..
'77 360 30 over
stock 10/10 crank
eagle rods
speed pro piston/rings yielding 10.7 to 1 comp
Edelbrock 65 cc heads "slight" port work
Lunati .513/.533 hyd. "voodoo" cam
comp magnum roller rockers
Edelbrock "air gap" gasket matched
quick fuel 850 carb
full msd ignition
i run 4.30's but 3.91's should get you where you want to be.
and built it n/a ANYONE can make a car go fast on nitrous..and i do mean anyone...
 
stroked 340 said:
Heres my combo has gone 11.79@111..
'77 360 30 over
stock 10/10 crank
eagle rods
speed pro piston/rings yielding 10.7 to 1 comp
Edelbrock 65 cc heads "slight" port work
Lunati .513/.533 hyd. "voodoo" cam
comp magnum roller rockers
Edelbrock "air gap" gasket matched
quick fuel 850 carb
full msd ignition
i run 4.30's but 3.91's should get you where you want to be.
and built it n/a ANYONE can make a car go fast on nitrous..and i do mean anyone...
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Now This Sounds More Like What I Need Cheers
 
I thought something was weird on this thread............ I am pretty sure MSHRED is in the 10's
 
Better have alot of money or alot of nitrous...............
 
Here's my 1986 combo...
'71 stock 340 s/strip Cuda....3550lbs race weight
10:1, stock 2.02 heads, HS dominator int., 850DP (worth 2/10ths on my combo over 750)
MSD6A, 36 total, NGK 6's
T/A 4200 verter, DC.590 sft cam, stock iron rockers
1.75" chassis hdrs
4.30's, 10x28" Goodyear slicks.
stock springs with clamps, p/snubber w-1/2" gap to floor
stock front worn shocks
Perf std type rear shocks w/extensions
= 12.39@108 = 365hp
+ N20...11.01@122 = 530hp, max rpm 6300.
Ran fine on the street, very tame, no issues at all apart from cruising rpm w/26" street tyres.

These heads or similar with a suitable FT cam
IMMENGINES.COM
 
DERICKS said:
You have tons of experince and a a great running car...how much HP do you think my 340 makes based off averages? 10.1 340 .040 trw's stock rods stock crank 308 heads unported witha 2.02 intake valve 1.5 roller rockers Torker II single plane intake 750 hp holly comp cams hyd flat tappet .508 nostalgia plus its 248/252 at .050 msd 6 AL and 1 5/8 headers. Whats your educated guess what it makes?
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Most likely right at or just under 400HP. But so many things to go wrong with chassis setup, and so many times guys miss the mark with engine/chassis setup.
 
Lots of folks say the small block was built to stroke, and that is true, but the small block was also built to boost :)

I've seen this done in the turbo world: Find a low compression small block, lower the better, do a basic rebuild, open ring gaps wide, Rod bolts, head studs, prep it like a pro, head surface nice and clean. Put any old head on it, doesn't really matter what valve size or if it's been ported, add a cam in the 210 duration area, add a turbo. No low gearing, no super high stall converter, minimal head and block work. 75 mph on the highway and 11's

It's not as hard as you'd think, all fabrication can be done with a cheap mig welder. Use Dakota exhaust manifolds. Turbos are becoming cheaper and more plentiful, you likely need to buy an expensive carb anyways, so just modify an old Holley for blowthru.

Tuning the carb is the hardest part. It has to be precise when on boost. Lots of fuel. ignition has to be retarded above 4 psi, and there are controllers to put inline with your current setup that can do this. If you have E85 in your area, even better.
 
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