racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Mine are 1/2” mild steel mounted on the back side of the spindle. As the saying goes, "they ain't going anywhere".
Last edited:
12:05 Garage- ’70 Duster build
- Thread starter racerjoe
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racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I've been getting my 5.7 Hemi torn down when I have time (and when I'm not nursing a F-ed up shoulder). For some reason my 18 year old daughter seems to be showing interest in cars now. Of course, now she's interested just before she's about to move out for college... Anyway, I had her pulling pistons/rods out over the weekend when she had a few minutes to hang out with dad. Up to this point, I knew the motor was in good shape, but the bearings tell the real story. They seriously look brand new. I also pulled one main so far and it looks the same as this.
I went to autocross over the weekend and had decided to try adding air psi to the tires. There's so much mixed info on the internet, and there isn't anyone local to me that autocrosses a "heavier" car to talk to for advise. My drag racing brain has always told me to run a lower pressure in the tire, but that's not the case here. I did read a comment on an old forum about someone that explained that the tire is a very small adjustable spring rate. This seemed like valid information given the way it was described. So given my problems with understeer I studied the tread wear on my tires and it seemed that the tire was folding over slightly and not using the entire contact patch. What other way to fix this than to put more air in the tire to make it more firm. I decided to put this theory to the test and put 2psi more in the tires than I ran previously, 38psi. On my very first run, which wasn't super aggressive, I could tell immediately that the car liked it. I continued to push the car harder every pass and improved by nearly 2 seconds over 5 runs. I'm blown away how much better it is. Who would have thought 2psi would make such a difference! The tires ended up having 39.5psi in them by the time I was done. I did get some understeer on my last of 6 runs, but I think the tires were starting to get overheated since we ran 6 runs in a row. I'm also feeling the rear end move a little. Not in an oversteer kind of way, more like a tire slip type of way. I really don't know how to explain it, but I know from some track driving instruction, that's a good thing. It also tells me the front tire is gripping enough to make the back end start to move.
This truck was there. It's a full custom tube chassis, purpose built race truck. He told me he won the truck class at LS Fest last year. I'm happy to say I was only 1.5 seconds slower than him. Can't complain about a factory style suspension passenger car almost keeping up with a purpose built race truck.
I went to autocross over the weekend and had decided to try adding air psi to the tires. There's so much mixed info on the internet, and there isn't anyone local to me that autocrosses a "heavier" car to talk to for advise. My drag racing brain has always told me to run a lower pressure in the tire, but that's not the case here. I did read a comment on an old forum about someone that explained that the tire is a very small adjustable spring rate. This seemed like valid information given the way it was described. So given my problems with understeer I studied the tread wear on my tires and it seemed that the tire was folding over slightly and not using the entire contact patch. What other way to fix this than to put more air in the tire to make it more firm. I decided to put this theory to the test and put 2psi more in the tires than I ran previously, 38psi. On my very first run, which wasn't super aggressive, I could tell immediately that the car liked it. I continued to push the car harder every pass and improved by nearly 2 seconds over 5 runs. I'm blown away how much better it is. Who would have thought 2psi would make such a difference! The tires ended up having 39.5psi in them by the time I was done. I did get some understeer on my last of 6 runs, but I think the tires were starting to get overheated since we ran 6 runs in a row. I'm also feeling the rear end move a little. Not in an oversteer kind of way, more like a tire slip type of way. I really don't know how to explain it, but I know from some track driving instruction, that's a good thing. It also tells me the front tire is gripping enough to make the back end start to move.
This truck was there. It's a full custom tube chassis, purpose built race truck. He told me he won the truck class at LS Fest last year. I'm happy to say I was only 1.5 seconds slower than him. Can't complain about a factory style suspension passenger car almost keeping up with a purpose built race truck.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Looks great! I like it.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
The 5.7 hemi rebuild continues. Got the block hot tanked, torque plate honed, and decked. And by that I mean, pressure washed with degreaser in my driveway after honing with a parts store loaner tool, and decked with 220 on a sanding block. If anyone watched Vice Grip garage, you will get that....
The block cleaned up nice. Not seen very well in these photos is where I grinding some casting flash off the block under the lifter bores. The oil from the heads on these engines drains right back to the pan via the drains hole under the cylinders-pretty cool. There's obivsouly some oil from the lifters and there was a decent amount of casing flash stopping a smooth flow of oil back down the center of the block. It gone now. I doubt it will make much difference, but it made sense for me to knock that down while I had it apart.
New rings are ordered. Once they come in I'll start file fitting them, then I'll slam the short block back together.
The block cleaned up nice. Not seen very well in these photos is where I grinding some casting flash off the block under the lifter bores. The oil from the heads on these engines drains right back to the pan via the drains hole under the cylinders-pretty cool. There's obivsouly some oil from the lifters and there was a decent amount of casing flash stopping a smooth flow of oil back down the center of the block. It gone now. I doubt it will make much difference, but it made sense for me to knock that down while I had it apart.
New rings are ordered. Once they come in I'll start file fitting them, then I'll slam the short block back together.
Red Stripe
Well-Known Member
I know I said it before but that is one of the best looking Duster's out there. Looks awesome in the autocross shots.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Did you stick with the same 235/35R18 front tire size when you bought new tires?
Been researching a direction for going to 18" wheels and trying to decide if I am ok with a 245/40R18 on the front instead of the 275/35R18 I have been dreaming of. A 275 front tire means a +35mm offset wheel and those seem to add about $150 per wheel to the cost over a 28x9 +24mm wheel. And it would require a new rear axle to keep the wheel/tire package "square". With a +24mm wheel, I can run a 245/40R18 in the front and a 275/40R18 in the back and on the same wheel and even keep my existing rear axle. So a 275 front tire causes a significant change.
I guess I could run a +35mm wheel in the front and a +24mm wheel in the back and 275/35R18 tires all around and only add $300 to the project. Just seems like if I have the same size tires, it would be odd to have different wheels. And I would have to find a wheel that offers both offsets, which means I am probably back to $400 per wheel and $600 more overall than the +24mm wheel setup would cost.
I guess it depends what style wheel you’re looking to run. For example, you can get XXR 530D wheels on eBay in +20 and +35 for a little over $200 apiece.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Thanks!
Haven't seen options for +35mm wheels that weren't about $400 a piece.
If you search “18x9 5x114.3” you get more results than if you search for 5x4.5
DionR
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Actually been searching 18x9 +35mm. Or going to websites and using their filters.
Maybe I should try "18x9 +35mm 5x114.3"
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I did end up using the 235 tire. I wanted to try the 245/40, but the 245/40 is taller than the 275/35. The RT660 isn't available in a 275/40 or 285/35 so I had to go back with the 235. I think I'll ultimately get my front wheels widened to 9". They didn't make a 9" wheel with the correct backspacing, so that's how I ended up with an 8". The 235 is working pretty good for me now that I have the rear sway bar and tire pressure dialed in. I'm sure if I go with a 275 on the front, I'll need to figure things out again. Maybe it will be as simple as loosening the rear bar a little.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Haven't thought much about widening a wheel, probably not cost effective to buy wheels with the plan to get them widened. But an interesting idea to mull over.
Looks like an 18x8 with a +22mm offset turns into an 18x9 with about a +35mm offset if it is widened 1" in the back. But if it's much more than $150 a wheel, hard to see it making more sense than just buying one with the right offset.
Not knocking your idea of widening your wheels, just thinking out loud on the idea of using it as an avenue to get where I might want to go. You already have the wheels and they don't make ones in the offset you would need so it makes sense to look down that road.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
It took forever for me to find an "off the shelf" wheel that I liked and had the sizes and backspacing that would work. Unfortunately this made me use an 8" wheel for the front instead of the 9". Having the fronts widened isn't ideal. I believe the cost is somewhere around $200/ea. Not cheap, but cheaper than buying 4 new wheels. There are some tuner style wheels out there that would have worked, but they didn't provide the look I was going for. XXR had a wheel I liked, but it has a double drilled bolt pattern. I don't care for that. 3030 Autosport has some decent looking wheels that were around $600-750 when they first came out. This is a good price for a forged wheel with custom backspacing. I just looked and their pricing has gone up. I'd imagine they will get to Forgeline prices once they become more popular.
DionR
Well-Known Member
That's kind of where I am at, struggling to find an off the shelf wheel that works.
The XXR 530D mentioned above actually might work, there is a 35mm offset option but the low offset is 20mm instead of 24mm. Not sure 3/16" is anything to worry about though. And I like the XXR 575 in phantom black, too and it has a 35mm and 25mm option. Plus they all look to be about $200 each.
I am further complicating things for myself with the struggle to decide if I want a 275 up front which forces a new rear axle (if I want 4 wheels all the same) or keep the rear axle width I have and settle for a 245 front tire.
When I do my 5.7/T56 swap, I expect to at least re-gear my rear axle anyway. And since it is currently just an F-Body 8.25" I kind of planned to move up to an 8.75" at least. Buddy just finished a Dana swap on his BB Dart and it looks killer under there. Either way, going wider since I might already be upgrading the axle might not be the end of the world.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Oh, and the other thing I have to be careful with is caliper clearance. Whole reason I am looking at 18" wheels is to be able to move up to Brembo's up front. Hate to pick a wheel and then not be able to run them because the spokes interfere with the calipers.
Jeg's shows an FR500 in 18x9 +24mm with a note that it will not fit a car with the Y2K Cobra Brembo brakes, so that one is off the table. And the 03 Cobra wheel I found in 18x9 +24mm has a note that an 1/8" spacer might be required with Brembo brakes.
No idea if the XXR wheels have clearance. Something I need to check into.
Jeg's shows an FR500 in 18x9 +24mm with a note that it will not fit a car with the Y2K Cobra Brembo brakes, so that one is off the table. And the 03 Cobra wheel I found in 18x9 +24mm has a note that an 1/8" spacer might be required with Brembo brakes.
No idea if the XXR wheels have clearance. Something I need to check into.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
The 575 is a decent looking wheel. It would be nice to make the rear axle whatever length that enables the same size and offset wheel for the front and back. I don't even know if this is possible, but it would be nice to rotate tires since the fronts get worn so fast in autocross.
Man if I were having to swap rears completely, I would seriously think about going with an 8.8 Ford. They come with disc brakes already and you can usually find them with posi units in them if you get one from an explorer. I haven't done any research on the lengths, but I'm sure they would work even if you have to cut the tubes down to a length that would work, then get some axles made. I personally think Danas are too big for A-bodies. I think they create interference problems with exhaust and you won't be making enough HP to justify having such a large rear end. I know you have a budget mind like me and the thought of paying for a complete A-body 8-3/4 or Dana pains me.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I know @goldduster318 runs a square setup of 18x9 +35mm wheels and 275/35R18 tires using a 68-70 B-Body rear axle. And Blu runs a 68 B-Body axle has said he planned to do the same before settling on a bigger rear tire and a wheel with a touch more offset. So pretty sure it can be done.
Not a fan of the Explorer 8.8 for this, but only because the pumpkin is offset and the driveshaft sometimes rubs on one of the mufflers when used in a stock form. Most people shorten one side which makes it close to stock A-Body width and centers the pinion like an 8.75". I know it has been done so it can work, just not my favorite solution for my car.
I looked for some widths for Mustang 8.8's but didn't find anything that made sense as to overall widths. I think the 94-98 model with disk brakes is the same width as the axle I currently have, and the 99+ is wider, but couldn't find a confirmed width.
In reality, the different between my F-Body axle and the 68-70 B-Body axle is only like 5/8" overall. Worse case, I could run some 10mm spacers and be close. Just makes more sense (to me) to avoid the spacers if I am going to build a different axle anyway.
DionR
Well-Known Member
If I went Dana, I would get my buddy to build me one like he built for his car. Used Ford(?) Dana 60, 8.75" axle ends and custom axles. I think he said he had $500 or something in it.
Might look into the 8.8 more since it could be had with tone rings on the axles. No idea if I could/would ever get to the point of messing with traction control or maybe even ABS, but might make it easier if so.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I realized this morning that I should have linked goldduster318's thread rather than "mention" him.
Installed the 18" Wheels on the Duster
mygasser
Well-Known Member
i used an explorer 8.8 in my 68 valiant. i bought a second 'short side' half shaft from summit SVL Drivetrain Products 2022636-1 SVL Drivetrain Axle Shafts | Summit Racing which as you say makes it pretty much A body 8.75 width. as well as lsd and disc brakes, they also have bigger 31 spline half shafts so nice and butch. plus with so many fox mustangs being raced parts are readily available and more importantly cheap compared to the 8.75 axle. like pricing a small or big block chevy rebuild compared to a small or big block mopar, you get the idea.
my valiant had 8 1/2" slot mags with 295 50 15's under the stock arches using the 8.8 with the 2 short shafts. i rolled the arch lips but that was it.
neil.
my valiant had 8 1/2" slot mags with 295 50 15's under the stock arches using the 8.8 with the 2 short shafts. i rolled the arch lips but that was it.
neil.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I found a bare axle length for a 94-98 Mustang GT/Cobra of 29.937". With that and the cross pin size of .875", I get an overall width of 60.75" (flange to flange).
Based on the published 68-70 B-Body axle length of 29.1875" and a thrust block length of 1.5" the overall width from flange to flange is 59.875", .875" narrower than a 94-98 Mustang 8.8. This jives with the published 60.125" (drum to drum) width if the thickness of the drum is .125".
To match the B-Body axle, the target length would be 29.5" for an 8.8 bare axle.
The Explorer overall width using the same method as the Mustang is 59.375. This is 1/2" narrower than the B-Body axle and still has the pinion offset. The long side axle is 30.6875" long so potentially one could shorten the long side 1.1875" and add 1.6875" to the short side and then buy some custom axles at 29.5" long. This would result in an overall width that should match the B-body housing.
The question is, how much would it cost to shorten one side and lengthen the other? I would assume it would require 2 housings (one to cut the longer tube off of). The custom axles appear to be $500, but I didn't look any further than Moser.
Another (better?) option would be a 99-04 Mustang housing. The axles for that application are 30.75" long and it is a symmetrical housing, so in theory one could shorten both sides 1.25" and only have to buy one housing. No idea how much a 99-04 8.8 costs though.
If you are paying to have a housing narrowed and buying aftermarket axles anyways, probably a wash. But if you could buy a clean 68-70 B-Body 8.75" for $500-700(?), and use the stock axles and not narrow the housing maybe not? Don't know.
Oh, and the 79-93 8.8 bare axle length is 29". So overall width is an 1" narrower than the B-Body width.
DionR
Well-Known Member
So it looks like maybe the best option is an '05+ 8.8 as they went to 31 splines after that.
I can get one locally for $750 complete, but with a 2.73 gear ratio. So after narrowing it, buying custom axles and getting it re-geared to a 3.55, is it is still the better deal?
I can get one locally for $750 complete, but with a 2.73 gear ratio. So after narrowing it, buying custom axles and getting it re-geared to a 3.55, is it is still the better deal?
mygasser
Well-Known Member
without going back through the thread i'll assume you can weld. to use the explorer axle (and only need to buy custom shafts) all you do is work out the required measurements, cut the tubes and swap left to right. so a longer piece from the long side welds to the short side and vice versa. to get the straight for welding cut them roughly centre of the straight section of tube then clamp the parts between 2 sections of thick 2" angle iron. they can't be out of line so you can weld the bits in between the angle, remove the angle and weld the rest. work from one side of the tube to the other in shortish welds to keep heat distortion even. i've done several rear ends this way after being told about it by a steel fabricator/engineer friend.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Just so there is no confusion, this isn’t my thread. I’m just stinking it up.
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