Infected dawg butt. Remember where you read it. LOL
17" Magnum 500's
- Thread starter junkyardhero
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junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
i do too. just not on this car!
Did Ansen make any ugly wheels? I don't think they did. Just classic designs.
340six
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I wish I had $ for a set of Spiders. I am kinda glad the Spiders listed on eBay are the wrong bolt pattern.
I like these somewhat but there is a wheel that looks more like Spiders can't remember the name these would do for cheap on the right car
Vision Wheel 148-7865SGMF19 Vision American Muscle 148 Shift Satin Gray Machined Wheels | Summit Racing
I like these somewhat but there is a wheel that looks more like Spiders can't remember the name these would do for cheap on the right car
Vision Wheel 148-7865SGMF19 Vision American Muscle 148 Shift Satin Gray Machined Wheels | Summit Racing
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
i thought about those vision wheels as well. they're certainly on the short list, if only because they're not torque-thrust-esq (i have TT2's on one car already, and some D's for my fastback!)
more over they reminded me of these, which i like...
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
i only know of the sprint (slotted mag) and the top eliminator (torq thrust), were there others?
Heck if I know. That was before my time, but I'm sure there were others.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
haw! pure falsehood!
What are you sayin? I'm old?
72,
The reason I used the word 'weight' of air [ versus volume ] in the tyre is because weight is what changes when you inflate the tyre to different pressures. You were too dumb to pick that up....
The reason I used the word 'weight' of air [ versus volume ] in the tyre is because weight is what changes when you inflate the tyre to different pressures. You were too dumb to pick that up....
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
go sell your crazy pants "ideas" on your own thread that's full of nonsense, misinformation and pontiacs or whatever.
i don't need your foolish and absurdist declarations cluttering up a thread that i started in an effort to find information about specific rim fitment.
so again, kindly piss off to elsewhere with your missives of larger rim detestation.
good day sir!
Challenge accepted!
I think someone had a custom set of larger diameter aluminum wheels made to look like this, maybe a show car? And now I can't find it...
Nah, he just agrees with you, he doesn't "get" anything. You're both completely wrong, but don't let facts get in the way of some good bullshit. Maybe @amtronic1 will say what shocks/suspension he has so we could fix his issue without changing those beautiful wheels.
So, I've got to know. If I add 5 psi to my tires how much weight does that add? Please list the tire size you use for your calculation, it's estimated volume, your base tire pressure and the weight of air you're using at standard pressure/temperature so I can check your math.
I only mentioned volume because you said the air volume in a 17" wheel/tire combo is less than a 14" wheel/tire combo, which isn't at all necessarily true at all (easily shown with wider wheels/tires).
And what about the pressure changing with temperature? So, if the outside air temperature increases from when I filled my tires and the tire PSI goes up accordingly because you know, gas laws, does the ride quality not change because the weight of air in the tire remained exactly the same despite the change in pressure?
If the weight of the air is so important, shouldn't the fact that my 18" wheels and tires are like 4lbs lighter than the 15" wheels and tires they replaced be even more important? You know, because that's gonna be orders of magnitude larger than the change in the weight of the air?
Awww c'mon, I want him to calculate the change in the weight of the air from adding 5 psi to the tires! He claims to be smart, it's easy enough to calculate that.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
those ansens would looks boss on a bmw! but "well exceeds SEMA specs"? what kind of tomfoolery is that?!?
and speaking of tomfoolery... i'll allow it if only as an example of such blatant prattling poppycock!
though only on the follow conditions: calculations must be converted to Curie Temperature and may only be presented in Melbourne Cricket Ground units adjusted to US standard fractional with a correction factor of Banana Equivalent Dose.
NB. summer air and winter air calculations will be required
So here goes...
I have 17 inch rims. I have 245/45R17 on the front and 275/40R17 on the rear.
I have 1.03 PST torsion bars. With QA1 Shocks on the front. QA1 TN501 QA1 Stocker Star NA Shocks | Summit Racing
The rear has the Bilstein RCD's.
I've daily driven this car with this setup for thousands of miles and done many 500+ mile plus road trips as well. The ride is awesome. But I also like zipping through concourses and hitting the mountain twisties in a spirited but safe manner.
I also have a set of 205/65R15 winter tires with generic Crager V5 steel rims. (Hey they were $10 a piece Junkyard specials in super shape, why not?)
And once I put those on I noticed hardly any difference in ride quality. Despite the 1 inch taller sidewall.
I do notice a slight change in handling but again that is more to do with softer tread compound and maybe to some slight extent the taller sidewall.
I mean I get it that some people still use 14 & 15 inch wheels/tires for aesthetics and I have no problem with that.
- I just had a hard time finding good performance tires in the 15 inch range.
But those that are saying that bigger wheels with shorter sidewalls is making the car ride harsher is mostly... utter nonsense especially by those who are running crappy shocks. Unless you go to the extreme like 22-24 inch rims then yeah, but no one is doing that here (I hope).
*Disclaimer* If I do see a someone post their 'Donk' a-body on this forum well I'm going to ignore that person. Those are just as bad as those stupid "Carolina squat" trucks
I have 17 inch rims. I have 245/45R17 on the front and 275/40R17 on the rear.
I have 1.03 PST torsion bars. With QA1 Shocks on the front. QA1 TN501 QA1 Stocker Star NA Shocks | Summit Racing
The rear has the Bilstein RCD's.
I've daily driven this car with this setup for thousands of miles and done many 500+ mile plus road trips as well. The ride is awesome. But I also like zipping through concourses and hitting the mountain twisties in a spirited but safe manner.
I also have a set of 205/65R15 winter tires with generic Crager V5 steel rims. (Hey they were $10 a piece Junkyard specials in super shape, why not?)
And once I put those on I noticed hardly any difference in ride quality. Despite the 1 inch taller sidewall.
I do notice a slight change in handling but again that is more to do with softer tread compound and maybe to some slight extent the taller sidewall.
I mean I get it that some people still use 14 & 15 inch wheels/tires for aesthetics and I have no problem with that.
- I just had a hard time finding good performance tires in the 15 inch range.
But those that are saying that bigger wheels with shorter sidewalls is making the car ride harsher is mostly... utter nonsense especially by those who are running crappy shocks. Unless you go to the extreme like 22-24 inch rims then yeah, but no one is doing that here (I hope).
*Disclaimer* If I do see a someone post their 'Donk' a-body on this forum well I'm going to ignore that person. Those are just as bad as those stupid "Carolina squat" trucks
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Yeah you won that round. I cannot STAND that style of wheels. lolChallenge accepted!
View attachment 1716328389
I think someone had a custom set of larger diameter aluminum wheels made to look like this, maybe a show car? And now I can't find it...
Nah, he just agrees with you, he doesn't "get" anything. You're both completely wrong, but don't let facts get in the way of some good bullshit. Maybe @amtronic1 will say what shocks/suspension he has so we could fix his issue without changing those beautiful wheels.
So, I've got to know. If I add 5 psi to my tires how much weight does that add? Please list the tire size you use for your calculation, it's estimated volume, your base tire pressure and the weight of air you're using at standard pressure/temperature so I can check your math.
I only mentioned volume because you said the air volume in a 17" wheel/tire combo is less than a 14" wheel/tire combo, which isn't at all necessarily true at all (easily shown with wider wheels/tires).
And what about the pressure changing with temperature? So, if the outside air temperature increases from when I filled my tires and the tire PSI goes up accordingly because you know, gas laws, does the ride quality not change because the weight of air in the tire remained exactly the same despite the change in pressure?
If the weight of the air is so important, shouldn't the fact that my 18" wheels and tires are like 4lbs lighter than the 15" wheels and tires they replaced be even more important? You know, because that's gonna be orders of magnitude larger than the change in the weight of the air?
Awww c'mon, I want him to calculate the change in the weight of the air from adding 5 psi to the tires! He claims to be smart, it's easy enough to calculate that.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Quote of the day
mopowers
Well-Known Member
"Weight" of the air in the tire?? Bewy's smokin' some good stuff today.
Bewy's smokin' some good stuff today.I have a set of those, one's a bit rough, a Member here had a set for sale.....I dig 'em, not bad for a wheel cover.
Oh, almost forgot, when I was on the Vision's site.....they had no 4.5" pattern rims, all 4.75" GM, this is the pseudo K-H Mag recall style rims.
72 Blu,
[1] So Amtronic in post #62 was just imagining a rougher ride with bigger wheels???????????????? He didn't really feel the difference????
[2] An observant driver[ maybe not you ] will notice that if they have over inflated their tyres, the ride is harsher. This is particularly noticeable if the pressure was low initially, for whatever reason. Why is it harsher?
[3] Run your tyres WITHOUT air & see how good the ride is if you think air is 'inconsequential'. Try solid tyres, no air, & see what the ride is like. Circle track drivers like their tyre pressures right at the amount that they found gives the best handling/braking...within 1 or 2 psi...& using accurate measuring equipment to get it perfect. To them, 1 or 2 psi is NOT inconsequential.
[4] You must have a reading problem, so I will repeat it a second time. You claim that 'tuning'
the suspension to work with bigger 17" wheels/shorter side wall tyres will 'fix' the harsher ride.
If the same tuning is applied to the 14/15" taller sidewall tyre, it will give a smoother ride than the 17"combo. Somehow I think you know this but too gutless to admit it. Because at the end of the day, simple physics is involved....which you either do not understand....or not want to understand because it destroys your nonsense argument. The air in the tyre & the tyre sidewall take the initial 'hit' when the wheel hits a bump. The air inside the tyre is compressible & acts as a shock absorber, absorbing the shock from the bump. If you put more air in the tyre, the extra weight increases the density of the air & it becomes more solid. If it was possible to put so much air in the tyre that it became virtually a solid block, the ride would be veeeeeeeery harsh.
[5] To your question of pressure in the tyre increasing because of temperature increase, I agree, the ride quality does change......but it is so slight you do not feel it. We are getting into semantics here: the tyre [ rubber ] also heats up; when rubber is heated, it gets more flexible. So the tyre carcass will probably expand slightly from the heat....& the sidewall also flexes more. Competing parameters.
[6] Your bigger wheel combo being lighter could be because the wheel is lighter or the tyre is lighter...or both.
[7] Bottom line is what I said in my original post: the bigger wheel combo has less air to absorb the shock from road bumps....& gives a harsher ride, all else being equal. The air in the tyre is the first line of defence when the wheel hits a bump & the more there is, the better it will cushion the bump. The springs, shocks, come afterwards, to deal with aftermath.
[1] So Amtronic in post #62 was just imagining a rougher ride with bigger wheels???????????????? He didn't really feel the difference????
[2] An observant driver[ maybe not you ] will notice that if they have over inflated their tyres, the ride is harsher. This is particularly noticeable if the pressure was low initially, for whatever reason. Why is it harsher?
[3] Run your tyres WITHOUT air & see how good the ride is if you think air is 'inconsequential'. Try solid tyres, no air, & see what the ride is like. Circle track drivers like their tyre pressures right at the amount that they found gives the best handling/braking...within 1 or 2 psi...& using accurate measuring equipment to get it perfect. To them, 1 or 2 psi is NOT inconsequential.
[4] You must have a reading problem, so I will repeat it a second time. You claim that 'tuning'
the suspension to work with bigger 17" wheels/shorter side wall tyres will 'fix' the harsher ride.
If the same tuning is applied to the 14/15" taller sidewall tyre, it will give a smoother ride than the 17"combo. Somehow I think you know this but too gutless to admit it. Because at the end of the day, simple physics is involved....which you either do not understand....or not want to understand because it destroys your nonsense argument. The air in the tyre & the tyre sidewall take the initial 'hit' when the wheel hits a bump. The air inside the tyre is compressible & acts as a shock absorber, absorbing the shock from the bump. If you put more air in the tyre, the extra weight increases the density of the air & it becomes more solid. If it was possible to put so much air in the tyre that it became virtually a solid block, the ride would be veeeeeeeery harsh.
[5] To your question of pressure in the tyre increasing because of temperature increase, I agree, the ride quality does change......but it is so slight you do not feel it. We are getting into semantics here: the tyre [ rubber ] also heats up; when rubber is heated, it gets more flexible. So the tyre carcass will probably expand slightly from the heat....& the sidewall also flexes more. Competing parameters.
[6] Your bigger wheel combo being lighter could be because the wheel is lighter or the tyre is lighter...or both.
[7] Bottom line is what I said in my original post: the bigger wheel combo has less air to absorb the shock from road bumps....& gives a harsher ride, all else being equal. The air in the tyre is the first line of defence when the wheel hits a bump & the more there is, the better it will cushion the bump. The springs, shocks, come afterwards, to deal with aftermath.
Man Bewy, you're about as dense as a 3 foot thick lead wall.
This thread is about 17 inch wheels that the OP is interested. He is not interested in your baseless, useless opinion that is sprinkled with stupid bullshit. IS the thread titled "17 inch vs 15 inch rims?" NO!
You don't like 17 inch rims good, we don't care. We also don't buy into you spouting utter nonsense of a much harsher ride with less sidewall. You want to stick with 14/15 inch tires and shitty KYB shocks, good again we don't care, take your stupid crusade somewhere else.
- Is there a difference yes, but it ain't hardly that much, it can be easily compensated with better aftermarket shocks or tuning. In fact awhile back I had 15 inch tires that rode shittier than the 17 inch tires I have now.
- 14 and 15 inch performance tires are practically non-existent. They're mostly only generic tires.
- People who still use 14/15 inch rims are only doing it for appearances and nostalgia that's it. Which there is nothing wrong with that at all, I still dig the white lettered old school look, too bad they have cruddy selections.
- So kindly bugger off, if you do not have any constructive things to post in this thread that is about 17 INCH RIMS! Do you finally get it?
Any who,
I laughed when I saw Tire Rack list the BFG Radial T/A & Cooper Cobra 245/60R15's as "High performance" All-season. No they're not.
If anything they're grand touring with crappy speed-rating and tread life.
This thread is about 17 inch wheels that the OP is interested. He is not interested in your baseless, useless opinion that is sprinkled with stupid bullshit. IS the thread titled "17 inch vs 15 inch rims?" NO!
You don't like 17 inch rims good, we don't care. We also don't buy into you spouting utter nonsense of a much harsher ride with less sidewall. You want to stick with 14/15 inch tires and shitty KYB shocks, good again we don't care, take your stupid crusade somewhere else.
- Is there a difference yes, but it ain't hardly that much, it can be easily compensated with better aftermarket shocks or tuning. In fact awhile back I had 15 inch tires that rode shittier than the 17 inch tires I have now.
- 14 and 15 inch performance tires are practically non-existent. They're mostly only generic tires.
- People who still use 14/15 inch rims are only doing it for appearances and nostalgia that's it. Which there is nothing wrong with that at all, I still dig the white lettered old school look, too bad they have cruddy selections.
- So kindly bugger off, if you do not have any constructive things to post in this thread that is about 17 INCH RIMS! Do you finally get it?
Any who,
I laughed when I saw Tire Rack list the BFG Radial T/A & Cooper Cobra 245/60R15's as "High performance" All-season. No they're not.
If anything they're grand touring with crappy speed-rating and tread life.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
bro, nooooobody cares what you have to say. thanks for junking up a thread that was seeking pertinent information on a specific topic with your irrelevant bullshittery.
nothing you have to say is applicable to this thread. nothing. zero. zip. zilch. nada. and the only thing you've done is prove yourself a know nothing blow hard. so congratulations there, credit where it's due and all that i guess.
ease on down the road and go sell your crazy sauce elsewhere amigo. we're all full up here.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
@junkyardhero did you buy wheels yet?
1- I'm sure he did feel a difference, and I'm equally sure it's because he's running 17" wheels with otherwise stock suspension and cheap shocks. There doesn't have to be a difference in the ride of the car, IF you use the proper components. Notice I have said repeatedly if you slap larger diameter wheels on with stock suspension you get a **** ride? You must match your suspension components with your tires so the whole thing works together. Your tires connect the suspension to the road, nothing else, change those and you have to alter your suspension as well.
2- Yes, the ride is harsher with overinflated tires. And I didn't dispute that. It just has absolutely NOTHING to do with the weight of the air in the tire. Increasing the PSI in the tire exerts more force on the wall of the tire, which means it can absorb less additional force. (like from the road!) So it has to transmit it. Not difficult to understand.
3- Again, this is NOTHING to do with the weight of the air in the tire. Changing the pressure in the tire changes how the tire and sidewall deform with loads, this has to do with the force exerted on the wall of the tire by the pressure of the air inside. Racers of any kind are trying to maximize the grip of their tires, which means maintaining the maximum contact patch under whatever varying loads their sport subjects their tires to. Too much pressure and the tire loses the ability to keep the tire tread flat on the road, too little and the sidewalls roll over with harder cornering. I did not say a change in PSI didn't change handling, I said it has nothing to do with the weight of the air like you claim. I tried to lead you to water by giving the example that the density also changes with temperature, which would mean the same PSI in the tire with less weight of air, but you missed it entirely. The force exerted by the pressure inside the tire is the important part, not the weight.
4- Yes, a tire does act like a shock absorber. Changing the height of the sidewall does in fact change the way a tire absorbs/transmits energy, and I've never claimed otherwise. If you change the way the tire absorbs energy, you must change the suspension to compensate, which has been my point since the very beginning.
The point you seem unable to comprehend is that the frequency, rate and amplitude of the forces transmitted by the tire to the shock absorber change when you change the tire, profile, and/or construction because the tire is transmitting the road inputs differently. Those changes in frequency, rate and amplitude require different amounts of damping, which your shock may or may not be able to accommodate.
The cheap shocks many use have a narrow range where they can keep up and remain near critical damping, they only work well in a certain, narrow range of inputs. A better shock will work over a wider range of inputs, keeping things closer to critically damped with more varied inputs. BUT, if you tune a shock specifically for the inputs you'll get from a tire with a short or low profile sidewall, that shock will NOT give the best ride with a taller tire because the frequency, rate and amplitude of the oscillations coming from that tire do NOT match those coming from a 17/18 tire.
The physics of this is literally what proves you wrong.
5- Nope, right over your head. The pressure in the tire changes more than the compliance of the rubber, which changes the profile of the tire, which changes the tread patch on the road. If you listen to any modern auto or motorcycle racing discipline, especially F1 or MotoGP, you will hear the announcers speaking at length, every race, about how tire pressure and tire temperature are related AND how they effect suspension set up. Those cars and motorcycles are so sensitive to tire pressure changes they literally set the cars up differently if they expect to be running in traffic or free air because that changes the temperature which changes the pressure. Since no air is being added to the tires in any of those situations, the weight of the air isn't changing at all, but yet, the pressure in the tires remains critical to performance and handling.
6- No kidding. The larger wheel combo is lighter because the wheel weighs less. Thanks Captain Obvious. Again, you missed the point. The change in the weight of the air between a low profile and taller profile tire is thousandths of a pound in most cases, which should have made you realize it was irrelevant especially considering you can easily have differences in the several pounds range with different wheel/tire combinations. Orders of magnitude higher. The weight of the air is negligible.
7- Finally realized your argument was horseshit and decided to move the goalposts (again)?
"All things being equal" - this is the problem, only someone that doesn't understand suspension would keep things equal with the suspension when changing their wheels/tires. Literally my point this whole time.
I've never argued that the lower profile tire didn't change the ride BY ITSELF. My entire argument is that if your ride sucks with lower profile tires, it's because you failed to change your suspension to match them. This is true if you put lower profile tires on suspension set up for taller profile tires, but also if you put larger profile tires on suspension intended for lower profile tires. The input from the tires has changed, so, you change your suspension to match.
As I have said from the beginning- there is no reason your ride quality has to be terrible with lower profile tires, or that changing to lower profile tires means your car MUST ride like crap. Your car can ride just as well with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tires as long as you change your suspension, and mostly your shocks, accordingly.
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