1958 Dodge

[6PakBee]

The place I got my '57 Custom Royal Lancer, the parts car '57 Royal, also my '58 Plymouth Suburban wagon and parts car '57 Dodge Suburban wagon, and the '56 DeSoto Fireflite... he also has like 20 or so '58 Dodge's.

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If I wasn't already overloaded with projects, that '58 Chrysler would be my choice.

 

[matthon]

 

[matthon]

 

[matthon]

 

[70DartMike]

I hope being it's on the trailer means it's going to your house! I think you've already thought too long on this one.. Forward Looks are awesome!

 

[matthon]

I hope being it's on the trailer means it's going to your house!

Yes! I feel truly blessed for the opportunity to purchase. It is so cool, and he was pleased that I bought it.

Unfortunately, windshield in car is destroyed and the windshield that he got with it was cracked, so I need to find another.

It was in a crate outside forever, crate all but gone, windshield sank into the ground.
I dug it up today and what a disappointment.

 

[geminimotors]

@matthon, John at Big M Auto might could have glass, sheetmetal and trim. Dunno where you're at, but he does ship unobtanium to customers in Impoossibleville.
Big M Automotive

 

[matthon]

Wash & Wheels.

 

[matthon]

Previously, I pulled the plugs, filled the cylinders with MM Oil, and put the plugs back in finger tight.

Today was warm, so I put a breaker bar on the crank, couldn't turn it, stuck the jack handle over it and it turned no problem.

It's difficult to turn because it has compression, it was squeezing the oil and air out from around the plugs.
I pulled a valve cover and they are moving along.

I pulled the carb, it's clean inside but the bottom butterfly is stuck. I had sprayed it with PBB back then as well, I think that's the puddle in the intake, but other than that it's clean down there.

Need to find the correct rebuild kit. I'll also test the fuel pump, it has new plug wires, cap/rotor on it from before it was parked.

Car sat 30+ years and I can't get over how every bolt and fastener just comes right off.
The distributor advance line is metal, tiny delicate, typically a rusted mess that refuses to budge, twists and crimps itself into an effing mess, came right off.

 

[70DartMike]

Looks great so far, is that a 325? I have a 325 Poly in my '57 Lancer Royal parts car...

 

[matthon]

is that a 325?

Yes.
I need a windshield if your parts car is a 2 door hardtop.

Looking for a 4 barrel setup as well, maybe, but fine with keeping the 2.

 

[matthon]

I've moved into the, taking strange pics stage of obsessive something disorder.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

1958 was the last year for the Dodge poly and was the base V8 in Coronets (with a two barrel) and Royals (with a four barrel). The Dodge Hemi's last year was 1957, and only with the D500 or Super D500 option. In 58, all Custom Royals got the new B motor, in 350 and 361 inch versions, all of which were optional on Coronets and Royals. Top 58 Dodge motor was a Super D500 dual quad 361 with 320 hp.

In 1959 Dodge was given the 318 Plymouth poly, bored .040 over to make it a 325 or 326 (depending on source). That was a one year only motor. 318 poly became the base V8 in 1960 and remained so through the 1966 model year (in the US). (1959 also saw the introduction of the 383; and the 350 disappeared.)

Someone mentioned DeSoto above. The base DeSoto Firesweep in 57 and 58 dropped a DeSoto rear body onto a Dodge chassis with Dodge running gear and a Dodge front clip with a DeSoto front bumper. The Firesweep had the same 122 inch wheelbase of the Dodge and (I assume) the same frame. The Firedomes and Fireflites, however, used a 126 inch wheelbase frame, which would not be interchangeable with Dodge.

As an aside, not really important here, the 57 Firesweep used the Dodge 325 poly, but the 58 Firesweep got the new B engine, with 350 cubes. Looks just like a 383, but it's a 350. Higher line 58 DeSotos got 361s. 1957 was the last year for the DeSoto Hemi.

The Chrysler poly, Dodge poly and Plymouth poly were three completely different motors, with virtually nothing interchangeable between them. Chrysler and Dodge poly motors were essentially each brand's hemi motors with poly heads. The 318 poly designed originally for Plymouth became the corporate small block, and later was given wedge heads in 273, 318, 340 and 360 versions, all of which shared the Plymouth poly's basic architecture designed for the 56 Plymouth models.

One final note: someone mentioned the lack of a Park position for the trans. Until 62 Chrysler Corporation's automatic transmissions - Powerflite or Torqueflite - had no parking pawl on the trans. Instead, they put a miniature brake drum on the rear of the trans to use as a parking brake (without any parking brake mechanism in the rear brakes). And even when aluminum Torqueflites were introduced for the 62 model year, Chrysler kept the brake drum on the tail of its aluminum Torqueflite to be used as a parking brake, with no parking pawl like Dodges and Plymouths got (along with what we called emergency brakes, but were really parking brakes, at the rear axle).

 

[matthon]

In 58, all Custom Royals got the new B motor,

As well as the late year Regal Lancer, iirc.

Looks just like a 383, but it's a 350.

The 350s I've seen, the valve covers look similar to the 361, but somehow different.

Dodge poly motors were essentially each brand's hemi motors with poly heads.

So the issue is which 4 barrel manifold fits a 58 325 poly?
Obviously, a 58 poly 4 barrel, but which hemi?
My understanding is there is a standard block, 331 & 354, and a raised block, 392, and I've heard other terms, early hemi, baby hemi, and lower displacements as well.

If anyone knows casting numbers that would help, I've searched the forums and it is not clear to me.

Here is what I believe to be a 325 intake and carb, or at least one that will fit.

 

[barbee6043]

You might check with the FB poly site, some very knowledgable poly guys there.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

So the issue is which 4 barrel manifold fits a 58 325 poly?
Obviously, a 58 poly 4 barrel, but which hemi?
My understanding is there is a standard block, 331 & 354, and a raised block, 392, and I've heard other terms, early hemi, baby hemi, and lower displacements as well.

Dodge poly needs a Dodge intake; Chrysler won't fit. Something I'm not sure of is whether you can put a Dodge Hemi intake on a Dodge poly.

Don't know the numbers, but a tape measure comparison of the length of the intake should suffice to let you know if it is a Dodge intake. Dodge hemi/poly motors are noticeably shorter than either DeSoto or Chrysler. Then measure width and compare it to the width of your two barrel intake for whether it's a raised deck or not. Early Dodge hemis were short stroke, low deck. 56 and later 315 and 325 motors were long stroke (3.80 inches) with a raised deck. Low deck and raised deck Dodge intakes are different, as I found out a while back when I was trying to sell a tri-carb Dodge intake on ebay.

Other than the 277 poly in my 56 Plymouth, I've not played with any of the early hemi/poly motors myself, but when I was a kid, my Dad owned a 56 D500 with a 315 hemi. Kept blowing head gaskets, so a couple of years after he bought the car in the spring of 57, he replaced the 315 hemi with a 57 325 inch Dodge poly motor which had the same rated hp. Said he could not tell any difference in performance. I was too young to know if he was right.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

The Dodge hemi/poly has one of the smallest bore spacings (bore center to center distance) of just about any (or maybe any) American V8 ever. Viz:

Dodge hemi/poly: 4.1875 inches

Desoto hemi: 4.3125

Chrysler hemi/poly: 4.5625

Mopar A/LA: 4.46

Mopar B/RB: 4.80

Ford small block: 4.38

Chevy small block: 4.40

 

[65 Cuda 340]

From Tex Smith's book, How to Build Chrysler Plymouth Dodge Hot Rods, this photo shows the length difference in the valve covers of Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge hemis:

 

[66fs]

As well as the late year Regal Lancer, iirc.


The 350s I've seen, the valve covers look similar to the 361, but somehow different.


So the issue is which 4 barrel manifold fits a 58 325 poly?
Obviously, a 58 poly 4 barrel, but which hemi?
My understanding is there is a standard block, 331 & 354, and a raised block, 392, and I've heard other terms, early hemi, baby hemi, and lower displacements as well.

If anyone knows casting numbers that would help, I've searched the forums and it is not clear to me.

Here is what I believe to be a 325 intake and carb, or at least one that will fit.

As I understand it you need a Dodge 315 or 325 Hemi or Poly 4 barrel intake. I'll try to look up the casting numbers. I have one of those intakes and carb I bought years ago in hope of building a 315 or 325 Dodge Hemi. I'll try to take pictures. As I understand it you can also swap Dodge Hemi heads onto the poly block.

 

[matthon]

Something I'm not sure of is whether you can put a Dodge Hemi intake on a Dodge poly.

That I know you can.

As I understand it you need a Dodge 315 or 325 Hemi or Poly 4 barrel intake. I'll try to look up the casting numbers. I have one of those intakes and carb I bought years ago in hope of building a 315 or 325 Dodge Hemi. I'll try to take pictures. As I understand it you can also swap Dodge Hemi heads onto the poly block.

Yes, 315/325 intake.
Yes, can swap Dodge hemi heads onto Dodge poly.
If you're saying you have a 4 barrel intake/carb for a 325, I'm interested.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

I look forward to seeing your progress on your 58. I have a 59 Coronet 2dr hardtop which originally had the one-year-only 326 poly (essentially, a .040 over 318 Plymouth poly) and Powerflite trans. Now has a 64 Chrysler 413 backed by a 62 Chrysler pushbutton Torqueflite. My 59 already had the 413 when I got it, but with a 68 Torqueflite and a floor shifter. I swapped in the 62 Chrysler (non-letter 300) trans so I could go back to pushbuttons while sticking to an aluminum Torqueflite, and also return to the drum type emergency brake setup on the back of the trans. Once I replaced the Powerflite pushbutton shifter assembly with Torqueflite, an early 60s Chrysler shift cable bolted to the pushbuttons one end, and the trans on the other. A NOS 59 Dodge emergency brake cable hooked to the 62 Chrysler tranny's drum-type emergency brake once I replaced the backing plate with one from a 56 Plymouth (62 Chrysler used a foot operated emergency brake pedal, 59 Dodge used a pull handle under the dash; cables are not the same).

Motor mount brackets are from a 59 Chrysler New Yorker. Rear axle is an 8 3/4 from an E body Barracuda, which fits well, but does need to be re-clocked. Found out later that a 65 C body 8 3/4 rear will bolt right in.

Not sure any of this is helpful to you if you're keeping the 325 Dodge motor, but the later stuff does essentially bolt in with the right selection of parts. Not like the 56 and earlier in which converting to the sixties or newer stuff requires that most everything be fabricated.

 

[moparmat2000]

Nice. Is that a highway hi fi setup under the dash?

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Nice. Is that a highway hi fi setup under the dash?

Yes, but it's empty. Thinking I'll hide some kind of stereo inside whenever I get a round tuit.

 

[matthon]

Not sure any of this is helpful to you if you're keeping the 325 Dodge motor

Any info is helpful and greatly appreciated.
If it runs I'll keep the 325, trans, rearend, for now anyway.
Short term goal is to make it go/stop and make the interior suitable. The seats seem to disintegrate in these cars.

I'd like to sand it down as well, and see what's left of the original paint under the multi colored primer spray bomb. Thinking it was probably sanded all over before applying primer.

 

[matthon]

Pulled the backseat, could be worse.
Rear panels are in vgc, I see solid body mounts as well.
There are two on the outside in the same position that are rusted out, but I can fix that rear section with some sheet metal.

Did these cars have buildsheets?
I looked in the typical places.