I just picked up a new to me 1965 dart and I'm trying to figure out what rear springs I have, it seems like the shackles inverted a long time ago but they never tried to fix it and I don't know if it can be corrected or if the springs just need swapped out. I've attached some pictures for reference, it has a really aggressive rake to it but I can't figure out how much of it is the spring and how much is the tire. Right now it's running a 185/70/14 front and 205/75/14 rear. Any ideas on what I've got here?
1965 dart gt spring question
- Thread starter Wreck0nin
- Start date
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junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
with that size rear tire, it's more spring than anything. i'm sure it's exacerbated by the lowered front end as well.
the flipped shackle is 100% something you need to correct though.
can you measure the springs? total length, front eye to center pin, rear eye to center pin. that will tell you what you have in there and you can make a move from there.
the flipped shackle is 100% something you need to correct though.
can you measure the springs? total length, front eye to center pin, rear eye to center pin. that will tell you what you have in there and you can make a move from there.
You'll also want to count the number of springs on each side and any half springs that may be on there (if any) .
I counted 5 leaves and one small one at the bottom if that helps, the shackle inversion is why I'm trying to find out what the springs are, if they are ss springs I need to replace the front mounts to give the extra room for the shackles. I don't want to buy the mounts to find out I'm wrong about the springs though
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
here's a chart with some info that may help you:
personally, i'd get a front hangar that has two (or three positions) for adjustment.
also, if those are SS springs, i wouldn't run them on the street. they're great for race cars but that's about it.
personally, i'd get a front hangar that has two (or three positions) for adjustment.
also, if those are SS springs, i wouldn't run them on the street. they're great for race cars but that's about it.
I would suggest that you remove the rear shackles, replace the bushings and reinstall in the proper location, but that will just jack the back of the car up even higher! Maybe that's why the previous owner installed them that way. If you want excellent new springs for a reasonable price, you can get correct 6 leaf springs for your application from ESPO Springs and Things.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
i'd suggest measuring them and ascertaining what you have first and seeing what you're working with.
from there you can make a more informed decision on what pieces you'll need for a desired outcome.
lots of companies sell stock HD springs, which seems to be the look you're after. espo is one that is very well regarded.
Last photo. Jack the thing up with the rear axle suspended. Take a long pry bar and between the Spring mount and the bushing, pry up towards the floor. You want to re-invert the spring at the shackle. The shackle needs to be pointing down and on the bottom of the mount. It will take you a few min to do and don't listen to any of the responses above this thread. Geez guys!
THat's a poor pry bar image but you should get the idea. Stick the pry bar between the floor and the shackle and the shackle mount and pull up. That should invert the spring and shackle on the bottom side of the mount the way it should be. It will take a long pry bar. 4' or better!
kesteb
Well-Known Member
6 leaf springs raise the back of the car about 2". It also looks like the front has been lowered, and you have a tire stagger with the 205/75s in the back as compared to the 185/70s up front. The first step would be is to fix the shackles and then see where everything sits.
Nope. The factory had 6 leaf springs for the heavy duty suspension option. It didn't add 2" to the height. The issue with the OP's car is the shackles are inverted like I mentioned above and you agreed with as well. That will jack the rear end up (like it is) and the way they are is not the way they were designed.
kesteb
Well-Known Member
In my experience, after market 6 leaf springs raise the rear by 2". It appears that his car is a 170 model. Which came with 4 leaf springs. So at some point, they have been replaced. With the condition of the shackles, I would say that original springs have been replaced some time ago.
The number of leafs in a spring does not effect the ride height of the car. It does mean that the spring are more stable. If 6 leaf springs raise a car 2 inches, it's because the springs are arched at a level above stock. You can order 6 leaf springs from ESPO that deliver stock ride height or you can order them up to 2 inches above stock ride height in 1/2 inch increments.
kesteb
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you should mention them. The first set of 6 leaf springs came from ESPO and was their standard configuration. It raised the back of a '73 Duster by 2". I am sure the nice lady that answers the phone is not out to get me. But that is what happened.
The second set of 6 leaf springs came from an unknown source, as they were on the car, a '74 Duster, when I purchased it. Now some people like the "pro stock" look on Dusters. I don't, and there are several ways to adjust the ride height.
But this is all off topic from the original post. Which is that the OP didn't like the ride height of his car. Where his first step would be to get the rear suspension working correctly.
The second set of 6 leaf springs came from an unknown source, as they were on the car, a '74 Duster, when I purchased it. Now some people like the "pro stock" look on Dusters. I don't, and there are several ways to adjust the ride height.
But this is all off topic from the original post. Which is that the OP didn't like the ride height of his car. Where his first step would be to get the rear suspension working correctly.
I like the ride height just fine, I plan on running a 8.5 inch rear wheel with a wide rear tire so it's perfect, I just wanted to know what I was dealing with so I could find out whether I need the extended front mounts for ss springs or not. I don't want to just throw parts at it only to find out I didn't need em you know?
Have you made any progress in resolving your situation?
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
did you measure them? because if you measure them, then you'd definitively know.
but seeing the inverted rear shackle and the state of those bushings, i'd opt for replacement just to err on the side of A: knowing what i have, and B: installation
kesteb
Well-Known Member
8.5" rims don't fit comfortably on the back of a '65 Dart. Fixing the shackles will certainly give you clearance, but be prepared for the "tail happy" handling that will be introduce to your driving around. Especially on damp corners at moderate speeds.
Been there, done that. Old enough not to do it again.
Been there, done that. Old enough not to do it again.
8's aren't happy either. 7's are as wide as you would want to go without moving the springs and/or trimming the wheel lip.
True! 5 leaf springs were standard on early A's. 6's were the Heavy Duty option. (along with the wider wheels ad front sway bar)
I honestly wasn't sure what to expect with those wheels, I knew it would change the handling for sure due to the skinny fronts but other than that I didn't know what to expect. In your experience how loose was the rear end and was it manageable? I don't really push the car hard, it's more a cruiser right now, but in the future I'd like to add a bit more power to it
kesteb
Well-Known Member
Manageability is an interesting question. You may like having a car that can "spin out" on a damp corner and face opposing traffic in unpredictable ways. It does make for an interesting driving experience.
Or you could listen to others that have already tried this, and choose smaller rims and tires that actually fit within the wheel wells.
On my '65 Dart I run 15x7 inch rims with a 3.5" back spacing. This allows me to use a P235 60 tire. This combo fits without any heroics with plenty of space between the springs and fender lips. My rear suspension setup is 5 leaf springs with a 8.25" axle. With stock shackles and front hangers located in the stock locations.
But before going out and spending money on wheels and tires, fix your current suspension problems.
Or you could listen to others that have already tried this, and choose smaller rims and tires that actually fit within the wheel wells.
On my '65 Dart I run 15x7 inch rims with a 3.5" back spacing. This allows me to use a P235 60 tire. This combo fits without any heroics with plenty of space between the springs and fender lips. My rear suspension setup is 5 leaf springs with a 8.25" axle. With stock shackles and front hangers located in the stock locations.
But before going out and spending money on wheels and tires, fix your current suspension problems.
I put stock but rebuilt 340 rear springs on my 63 Valiant convertible. It raised it up some, but nothing like the OP's. Running 15x7 Cragars with 225/60-15 tires.
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