1965 Valiant LS Build

[72bluNblu]

Hey all, I've got a 1965 Valiant, and I planned on putting a 5.3 LS in it. Well that didn't work out, so I bought a junkyard 6.0 LQ9 Vortec out of a Cadillac Escalade. While technically not an LS the Vortec only has minor differences, and I think it was a better choice budget-wise. Over the last few days, I've completed fabricating engine mounts and a transmission mount, and I have everything set in the car. In order to keep costs down this build is very much an amalgamation of parts left over from my coworkers' other projects, though as the car progresses I'm sure I'll upgrade a lot of the parts. Since I just made it over the first major hurdle of this project I figured I'd make a post. I understand this isn't for everyone, but for anyone who is interested I'll attach some photos of my progress from the last couple of days, and I'll try to be detailed about the setup.

View attachment 1716127339
As I mentioned, this is an LQ9 out of a 2004 Cadillac Escalade. I chose this over the LQ4 as it has flat-topped pistons giving it a higher compression ratio. I've got an LS9 camshaft in the engine with upgraded pushrods, rocker arm bearings, and valve springs. I used a center-sump oil pan from Sikky (needed an LS1 windage tray to fit the pickup tube). Using this pan I was able to clear the steering center link. As for K member clearance, I only had to beat the frame with a sledgehammer for an hour.
View attachment 1716127341
Here is one of the motor mounts I built. This was my first time welding so go easy.
View attachment 1716127338

View attachment 1716127336
As you can see I've used the factory transmission mount. I cut out the center section to give room for my new transmission and welded some reinforcements.
View attachment 1716127337
I went with a Tremec TR3550 transmission and a 621 SBC bell housing, and the mounting holes only had to move a few inches forward.
View attachment 1716127340
In order to get the 3-4 degree driveline angle I needed, cutting up the floor (and chopping a few ears off the transmission) was necessary.

I've still got plenty of learning and work ahead of me which I'll continue to post about in the future.

Awesome work!!!

Don't worry about the haters with no imagination. It's amazing that there are still people out there that don't understand that you can get a running take out like you've got for a small fraction of the cost of a crate hemi or even a full rebuild on a 360 to bring it up to that hp level. Or that if you're capable of fabricating your own engine/transmission mounts that a swap like that isn't all that difficult to accomplish, you just have to be willing to do a little fabrication.

Just the work you've done yourself so far puts you ahead of probably 90% of the folks on this board. Lots of talkers, not nearly as many people that fabricate or even turn wrenches on their own stuff anymore. If you do your own work and put that old girl back on the road and drive it, well, that's more than good enough for me. Way too many checkbook cars and garage queens here already.

It was already mentioned, but if you're keeping the torsion bars you need to keep an upper half of your crossmember as well. It doesn't have to be complicated, but there does need to be something there to help carry the suspension loads that are carried in the transmission crossmember.

Keep up the good work!

 

[MopaR&D]

How are they anti enthusiasts? They sell their Gen 3 hemi’s and hellcat crate engines solely for this very purpose. They also sponsor numerous events such as Roadkill nights and Power Tour, they were even the main sponsor for Drag Week last year .

That's all they do. Look at Ford Racing and GMPP for comparison, WAY more support with decent-quality affordable parts for enthusiasts either modifying their cars or swapping older models. GM still makes parts and even crate engines based on the old 350 SBC, Mopar dropped all the SBM/Magnum stuff years ago. Nobody buys crate Hemis at those prices, far more cost-effective to use junkyard and warranty or wrecked pullout engines. I was more against the LS-swapped Mopars up until recently when I realized Dodge/Mopar (Stellantis) doesn't really give a damn about their performance enthusiast customer base except for the ones driving current models. LS also has advantages of being more compact and lighter especially with the aluminum block versions. I still wouldn't do it myself but I understand more now why others would.

 

[JGizmo]

Awesome work!!!

Don't worry about the haters with no imagination. It's amazing that there are still people out there that don't understand that you can get a running take out like you've got for a small fraction of the cost of a crate hemi or even a full rebuild on a 360 to bring it up to that hp level. Or that if you're capable of fabricating your own engine/transmission mounts that a swap like that isn't all that difficult to accomplish, you just have to be willing to do a little fabrication.

Just the work you've done yourself so far puts you ahead of probably 90% of the folks on this board. Lots of talkers, not nearly as many people that fabricate or even turn wrenches on their own stuff anymore. If you do your own work and put that old girl back on the road and drive it, well, that's more than good enough for me. Way too many checkbook cars and garage queens here already.

It was already mentioned, but if you're keeping the torsion bars you need to keep an upper half of your crossmember as well. It doesn't have to be complicated, but there does need to be something there to help carry the suspension loads that are carried in the transmission crossmember.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the advice and the kind words! This is definitely not going to be a show quality car. What’s important to me is I get it running and have fun with it

 

[JGizmo]

That's all they do. Look at Ford Racing and GMPP for comparison, WAY more support with decent-quality affordable parts for enthusiasts either modifying their cars or swapping older models. GM still makes parts and even crate engines based on the old 350 SBC, Mopar dropped all the SBM/Magnum stuff years ago. Nobody buys crate Hemis at those prices, far more cost-effective to use junkyard and warranty or wrecked pullout engines. I was more against the LS-swapped Mopars up until recently when I realized Dodge/Mopar (Stellantis) doesn't really give a damn about their performance enthusiast customer base except for the ones driving current models. LS also has advantages of being more compact and lighter especially with the aluminum block versions. I still wouldn't do it myself but I understand more now why others would.

I agree completely. This is exactly why I’m LS swapping the car. The LS is such a versatile platform in that almost every part is compatible. It bolts up to all sorts of transmissions, almost any cam from any gen LS is compatible, I could go on and on. This also helps to make everything more affordable, since you don’t have pay for one off parts. And on top of it that, there’s so much more aftermarket support for the LS than any mopar engine. I understand why mopar enthusiasts would want to keep their cars mopar, but from the perspective someone who’s into all sorts of cars the LS is a great option.

 

[MopaR&D]

I agree completely. This is exactly why I’m LS swapping the car. The LS is such a versatile platform in that almost every part is compatible. It bolts up to all sorts of transmissions, almost any cam from any gen LS is compatible, I could go on and on. This also helps to make everything more affordable, since you don’t have pay for one off parts. And on top of it that, there’s so much more aftermarket support for the LS than any mopar engine. I understand why mopar enthusiasts would want to keep their cars mopar, but from the perspective someone who’s into all sorts of cars the LS is a great option.

The G3 Hemi is getting there in terms of aftermarket support and versatility (thanks mostly to Holley, definitely not Dodge/Mopar) but it's still quite a bit larger and heavier, probably will never be as versatile as the LS regardless. Nobody really wants to use Mopar transmissions except Mopar guys, they don't generally have a great reputation unless you go way back to the non-overdrive Torqueflites which partly defeats the purpose of going to a modern EFI engine. I'm always surprised at how small the LS is when I see one in a car, I think they're even smaller than the 5.0L Windsor SBF. Not quite as easy to fit a Mopar V8 into a Miata, 240SX, Datsun Z etc and there's no factory aluminum block option.

 

[volaredon]

I always tell people , it`s ok to put a hemi in anything

Better than an LS or 350, in anything that isn't a gm product
I'd rather see a 318 in a Chevelle or nova than an LS in anything that isn't a gm body

 

[wheelsport]

I've seen a lot of GM engines in Fords of all vintages but very few people would think of putting a GM engine in a MOPAR. That's almost sacrilegious! You deffinately think out of the box. At least it insn't a small block Chevy. Very nice welds and fab work. But why a GM?

 

[chilsam]

sell the valiant n buy a deuce

 

[4mulas]

There are a lot of POLITE members here.
In my opinion, the owner has the right to do whatever he wants.
I'm still stuck on the mindset that THIS ISN'T CUBA.
Doing stuff like this is completely UNNecessary in a country like this where the factory family parts are easy to find.
Doing stuff "to be different" leads to dudes putting slant sixes into Miatas, diesel engines in '70 Barracudas, etc.
To choose to put a Chevy engine in a Plymouth shows no allegiance to the Mopar family. None.
A Mopar guy doesn't do this. A guy that likes cars might. There is a distinct difference there.
I don't wish for any ill will to be cast upon you but I have zero interest in the success of the build.
Cheers.

I kinda laughed at this! Especially the Cuba part as this is where you see crazy **** and most of them are 4 door cars Like Gizmo’s. The thing that bothers me most is that I simply just can’t get into 4 door cars, Gizmo, please at least do this to a 2 door! Then there might be some cool factor when it’s done. Kidding - whatever floats your boat
good luck with your project…

 

[diymirage]

I for one would rather see an LS then a modern hemi in old mopar

The return on investment simply isn't there with a gen 3 hemi

 

[Rustedwrench]

Never! I am having issues with my intake clearing the hood though... I want to keep the car looking as stock as possible on the outside so the hood is staying factory.

If hood clearance is an issue you can use a shorter car intake, such as for an LS1. Dorman makes an aftermarket one, I think. It does mount the throttle body lower so you may have clearance issues with the upper radiator hose connection on the water pump interfering with the throttle body. If that is the case you can use a water pump from a 2010 Camaro LS engine. That engine has variable valve timing so the water pump pulley matches the belt spacing of the truck engines and the outlet for the radiator hose comes straight out the front.

I like the build. Good work.

 

[RustyRatRod]

screw all that garbage. when mopar pays my mortgage then people can say i should be loyal to that anti enthusiast company.. until then i say put anything ya want in them.. i'd love to do an early abody with a Turbo 2JZ i. think that would be bad ***..

I agree with you 100% and I'll add.........

Had Mopar not abandoned V8 rear wheel drive cars for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS, things might be different. But that STUPID MOVE put them light years behind Ford and Chevy and to this day, they've never caught up. Yeah. And here come all the "But the Charger and Challenger" comments. Screw those over weight, over priced pigs. While Ford was churning out millions of Fox body Mustangs on the CHEAP for guys to modify with everything under the sun available, and Chevy did the same with the Camaro, Mopar had nothing. ON TOP OF THAT, Mopar gutted Mopar Performance and SOLD the company.......THREE TIMES. There is no Mopar anymore.

The argument against the Chevy engine HERE has been made, It's old. This is page FIVE now. If you don't have anything else but "I wouldn't put a Chevy engine in a Mopar" comments, then STFU and go find something else to do. It's HIS car and he's building it HIS way with HIS money not YOURS. Go FU<K yourselves.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Awesome work!!!

Don't worry about the haters with no imagination. It's amazing that there are still people out there that don't understand that you can get a running take out like you've got for a small fraction of the cost of a crate hemi or even a full rebuild on a 360 to bring it up to that hp level. Or that if you're capable of fabricating your own engine/transmission mounts that a swap like that isn't all that difficult to accomplish, you just have to be willing to do a little fabrication.

Just the work you've done yourself so far puts you ahead of probably 90% of the folks on this board. Lots of talkers, not nearly as many people that fabricate or even turn wrenches on their own stuff anymore. If you do your own work and put that old girl back on the road and drive it, well, that's more than good enough for me. Way too many checkbook cars and garage queens here already.

It was already mentioned, but if you're keeping the torsion bars you need to keep an upper half of your crossmember as well. It doesn't have to be complicated, but there does need to be something there to help carry the suspension loads that are carried in the transmission crossmember.

Keep up the good work!

PREACH IT BROTHER!

 

[abodyjoe]

I agree with you 100% and I'll add.........

Had Mopar not abandoned V8 rear wheel drive cars for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS, things might be different. But that STUPID MOVE put them light years behind Ford and Chevy and to this day, they've never caught up. Yeah. And here come all the "But the Charger and Challenger" comments. Screw those over weight, over priced pigs. While Ford was churning out millions of Fox body Mustangs on the CHEAP for guys to modify with everything under the sun available, and Chevy did the same with the Camaro, Mopar had nothing. ON TOP OF THAT, Mopar gutted Mopar Performance and SOLD the company.......THREE TIMES. There is no Mopar anymore.

The argument against the Chevy engine HERE has been made, It's old. This is page FIVE now. If you don't have anything else but "I wouldn't put a Chevy engine in a Mopar" comments, then STFU and go find something else to do. It's HIS car and he's building it HIS way with HIS money not YOURS. Go FU<K yourselves.

truth. then then they came out with the magnum they wouldn't release the hotrod style harness or even the plugs so it could easily be swapped in a classic or street rod. its pathetic. ford and chevy had all the harnesses available during those years.

 

[RustyRatRod]

truth. then then they came out with the magnum they wouldn't release the hotrod style harness or even the plugs so it could easily be swapped in a classic or street rod. its pathetic. ford and chevy had all the harnesses available during those years.

Yeah well I left out the magnum because I meant anything "300" based and they're it....but you knew that. I never liked the Magnums. Hideous. AND all they could keep giving us was another TRUCK. LMAO

 

[72bluNblu]

It took YEARS for Mopar to do anything to support the GIII hemi after it came out. The LS came in crates, with stand-alone wire harnesses, programmers that would work with the unlocked ECU, etc.

Mopar? Nope. ECU’s locked, no programmers available to run the factory intakes or EFI, no harness, nada. The ECU thing wasn’t just “not support”, it was actively discouraging and working against swaps. By the time Mopar started doing crates and stand alone harnesses guys had already figured out how to do all of it. Had they supported them from the beginning there would be far more GIII’s in classic Mopars.

And really there isn’t much “Mopar” about the GIII. If I do a modern engine in any of my cars it would still probably be a GIII hemi, but realistically it’s just because of the Hemi name and the fact that I don’t have to buy another bell housing for my T56, not because of anything inherent to the actual engine itself. You really can’t argue it’s some inherently better platform than the LS, it’s not. It’s not some piece of crap either, there are pros and cons to both, but the LS is a pretty solid platform and has a TON of support. And if that means you can build a reliable, high horsepower engine and drive the crap out of it then WTF is the problem?

People getting more triggered about the name on box than the capabilities (and cost) of what’s inside are just dumb as hell. Dude takes a less desirable Mopar and puts it back on the road with a low cost take out engine and his own skills and ingenuity and people here dog pile him because of the name plate on the valve covers. It’s all made somewhere else anyway.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It took YEARS for Mopar to do anything to support the GIII hemi after it came out. The LS came in crates, with stand-alone wire harnesses, programmers that would work with the unlocked ECU, etc.

Mopar? Nope. ECU’s locked, no programmers available to run the factory intakes or EFI, no harness, nada. The ECU thing wasn’t just “not support”, it was actively discouraging and working against swaps. By the time Mopar started doing crates and stand alone harnesses guys had already figured out how to do all of it. Had they supported them from the beginning there would be far more GIII’s in classic Mopars.

And really there isn’t much “Mopar” about the GIII. If I do a modern engine in any of my cars it would still probably be a GIII hemi, but realistically it’s just because of the Hemi name and the fact that I don’t have to buy another bell housing for my T56, not because of anything inherent to the actual engine itself. You really can’t argue it’s some inherently better platform than the LS, it’s not. It’s not some piece of crap either, there are pros and cons to both, but the LS is a pretty solid platform and has a TON of support. And if that means you can build a reliable, high horsepower engine and drive the crap out of it then WTF is the problem?

People getting more triggered about the name on box than the capabilities (and cost) of what’s inside are just dumb as hell. Dude takes a less desirable Mopar and puts it back on the road with a low cost take out engine and his own skills and ingenuity and people here dog pile him because of the name plate on the valve covers. It’s all made somewhere else anyway.

Do you remember the GM Ram Jet crate engines? They were before the LS in the Vortec platform. Both small and big block EFI in several different power levels each and included the COMPLETE wiring harness AND ECM. Plug and play for anything you wanted to put them in. If they came with gas and a battery, you could fire them up in the crate. It's no wonder Chevy has such a following. They've always had great factory HP support and still do.

 

[Dale Davies]

Hey all, I've got a 1965 Valiant, and I planned on putting a 5.3 LS in it. Well that didn't work out, so I bought a junkyard 6.0 LQ9 Vortec out of a Cadillac Escalade. While technically not an LS the Vortec only has minor differences, and I think it was a better choice budget-wise. Over the last few days, I've completed fabricating engine mounts and a transmission mount, and I have everything set in the car. In order to keep costs down this build is very much an amalgamation of parts left over from my coworkers' other projects, though as the car progresses I'm sure I'll upgrade a lot of the parts. Since I just made it over the first major hurdle of this project I figured I'd make a post. I understand this isn't for everyone, but for anyone who is interested I'll attach some photos of my progress from the last couple of days, and I'll try to be detailed about the setup.

View attachment 1716127339
As I mentioned, this is an LQ9 out of a 2004 Cadillac Escalade. I chose this over the LQ4 as it has flat-topped pistons giving it a higher compression ratio. I've got an LS9 camshaft in the engine with upgraded pushrods, rocker arm bearings, and valve springs. I used a center-sump oil pan from Sikky (needed an LS1 windage tray to fit the pickup tube). Using this pan I was able to clear the steering center link. As for K member clearance, I only had to beat the frame with a sledgehammer for an hour.
View attachment 1716127341
Here is one of the motor mounts I built. This was my first time welding so go easy.
View attachment 1716127338

View attachment 1716127336
As you can see I've used the factory transmission mount. I cut out the center section to give room for my new transmission and welded some reinforcements.
View attachment 1716127337
I went with a Tremec TR3550 transmission and a 621 SBC bell housing, and the mounting holes only had to move a few inches forward.
View attachment 1716127340
In order to get the 3-4 degree driveline angle I needed, cutting up the floor (and chopping a few ears off the transmission) was necessary.

I've still got plenty of learning and work ahead of me which I'll continue to post about in the future.

Personnally not a transvestite kinda guy, but I understand why people put SBC in most everything years ago and now the LS style/family of engines now.
One concern for me is the major surgery to the transmission crossmember. This is a structural member of the chassis. I would seriously consider constructing another farther rearward to aid in torque control/body stiffness, act as a driveshaft hoop and yet allow transmission removal.
Those 6 liter engines with the "bigger" cam produce a lot of torque, so body flex becomes an issue. Get into the local Mopar crowd and see what the factory big block cars had.
Also I would find an experienced welder to check your welding to verify the integrity. You do not want welds breaking when you get into the loud peddle. Someone in the local car community will have good welding experience. You may need to buy the pizza and beers.

 

[Dale Davies]

what a waste

To each their own. I am not a transvestite guy, but the availability of those engines, their external dimensions and parts availability make them appealing. Many go over 250k miles with minimal troubles. Like all the OEMs, the AFM or DOD feature has proven to be a sore spot but that is fairly easily defeated. Aftermarket to the rescue and the General has recognized it as a problem and authorized delete kits.
LS have kits through the aftermarket to install in most any car including Porsche.

 

[Dale Davies]

Do you remember the GM Ram Jet crate engines? They were before the LS in the Vortec platform. Both small and big block EFI in several different power levels each and included the COMPLETE wiring harness AND ECM. Plug and play for anything you wanted to put them in. If they came with gas and a battery, you could fire them up in the crate. It's no wonder Chevy has such a following. They've always had great factory HP support and still do.

That Ram Jet crate program was a hell of a marketing coup for the General.

 

[blind bat]

Urgh... This is the exact type of thing that frustrates me about FABO. Somone starts a good thread and then the bickering takes over and it's impossible seperate the signal from the noise.

I really like early A bodies and I can't wait to see how this build progresses. I want to hear LSA supercharger whine.

Also, I'm convinced if Schumacher made LS swap kit it would be super popular despite the curmudgeons.

 

[JDMopar]

@JGizmo Any updates? I got to wondering about exhaust for your car. Are you gonna make headers, or will maybe some of the LS swap manifolds on the market work? If whatever you do gets too close to the steering column, you can cut the tube off close to the firewall and gain a little room there in that cramped up space. There is a thread here somewhere about how to install a bearing in the end of the column housing for the steering shaft.

When you have to upgrade the rearend, you can put a Ford 8.8 out of an Exploder in it pretty cheap, and most of them are positracs. Then you can call the car "Big 3" - Chrysler body, GM power, Ford axle!

 

[GGs66GT]

All this bickering about some other brand engine being installed in a Mopar … just wait for the next swap in a few years when someone puts a Tesla in a Mopar !

 

[Dale Davies]

Could even look at the Exploder IRS.

 

[MidnightSwinger]

It took YEARS for Mopar to do anything to support the GIII hemi after it came out. The LS came in crates, with stand-alone wire harnesses, programmers that would work with the unlocked ECU, etc.

Mopar? Nope. ECU’s locked, no programmers available to run the factory intakes or EFI, no harness, nada. The ECU thing wasn’t just “not support”, it was actively discouraging and working against swaps. By the time Mopar started doing crates and stand alone harnesses guys had already figured out how to do all of it. Had they supported them from the beginning there would be far more GIII’s in classic Mopars.

And really there isn’t much “Mopar” about the GIII. If I do a modern engine in any of my cars it would still probably be a GIII hemi, but realistically it’s just because of the Hemi name and the fact that I don’t have to buy another bell housing for my T56, not because of anything inherent to the actual engine itself. You really can’t argue it’s some inherently better platform than the LS, it’s not. It’s not some piece of crap either, there are pros and cons to both, but the LS is a pretty solid platform and has a TON of support. And if that means you can build a reliable, high horsepower engine and drive the crap out of it then WTF is the problem?

People getting more triggered about the name on box than the capabilities (and cost) of what’s inside are just dumb as hell. Dude takes a less desirable Mopar and puts it back on the road with a low cost take out engine and his own skills and ingenuity and people here dog pile him because of the name plate on the valve covers. It’s all made somewhere else anyway.

Most of these dudes wouldn’t even look at that valiant if it were mopar powered!