'1967 Holiday Race' ~ Plymouth GTX 440 vs. Pontiac GTO 400 'Ram Air'

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69 Cuda 440

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1967 Holiday Race

'Factory Street Musclecars'

1967 'B/Stock' Bombers

1967 Plymouth GTX 440/375 HP 'Super Commando'
375 HP @ 4600 RPM's
480 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3200 RPM's

Shipping Weight....... #3604 lbs.

1967 Pontiac GTO 400/360 HP 'Ram Air'
360 HP @ 5400 RPM's
438 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3800 RPM's

Shipping Weight ...... #3430 lbs.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
1967 Holiday Race

'Factory Street Musclecars'

1967 'B/Stock' Bombers

1967 Plymouth GTX 440/375 HP 'Super Commando'
375 HP @ 4600 RPM's
480 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3200 RPM's

Shipping Weight....... #3604 lbs.

Note: Add {+103 lbs.} with the 4-Speed and Dana Rear.

1967 Pontiac GTO 400/360 HP 'Ram Air'
360 HP @ 5400 RPM's
438 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3800 RPM's

Shipping Weight ...... #3430 lbs.
Click to expand...

There is some weight difference here.
 
1967 Pontiac 400/360 HP 'Ram Air'

Compression ............ 10.75 to 1
Piston Type ............... Flat w/Notches
Deck Height ............. .000"
Gasket Thickness ...... .042"

Camshaft ................. Hydraulic {#744}
Lift ......................... .424"/.424"
Duration .................. 301*/313*
Overlap .................... 76*
Centerline ................. 113* Intake / 118* Exhaust

Cylinder Heads ......... #670
Type ....................... Closed Chamber
CC's ........................ {Factory = 72.0} ~ {Minimum = 65.0}
Intake ..................... 2.11"
Exhaust ................... 1.77"

Intake Manifold ......... Cast Iron
Type ........................ Dual-Plane High-Rise

Carburetor ............... Rochester 4-MV
Throttle Bore Sizes ... 1 3/8" x 2.25"
CFM Rating .............. 750 {Advertised} ...... 730 {W.O.T. Flow Test}

Exhaust Header ........ 2.25"
Pipe Size ................. 2.25"
 
Some Results

1967 Pontiac GTO 400/360 HP 'Ram Air'

Stock ...... F70 x 14' Tires

T-H 400 ....... 3.90 Gears ....... 14.21 @ 102.97 MPH
T-H 400 ....... 4.33 Gears ....... 14.09 @ 101.00 MPH ~ {Motor Trend}
T-H 400 ....... 4.33 Gears ....... 13.92 @ 103.17 MPH

4-Speed ....... 4.33 Gears ....... 13.90 @ 102.80 MPH ~ {Car Life - October 1967}
___________________________________________________

Goodyear Slicks {7" Wide} ..... Performance Tune-Up

T-H 400 ....... 3.90 ............... 14.01 @ 103.55 MPH ~ {Irwindale Raceway - January 1967}

Loved that His & Hers Gate Shifter
 
In 1966 a 440 gtx auto car 3.23 gears ran 14.4 @ 98 mph and the 66 GTO 389 six pac 4 spd 3.55 gears ran 14.0@ 105 there is 7 mph difference, either the gto made more power or ws lighter by a bunch.
 
My oldest brother had a '66, and older brother had a '67 GTO. Both 4 speeds, and bought new. The older brothers first "mission" with his '67 was taking out a '66 SS 396/375 4 speed Chevelle. Part car, part driver.
 
the 67 goat is on my favorite list, although I'm Mopar at heart, I gotta go with the goat.
 
Getting The Gears

The 1967 Plymouth GTX 440/375 HP 'Super Commando'

Automatic
* 8 3/4" Rear
* 3.23
* 3.55 {Optional}

4-Speed
* Dana Rear
* 3.54
* 4.10 {Special Order Option}
______________________________________________

1967 Pontiac GTO 400/360 HP 'Ram Air'

Automatic
* 3.90
* 4.33 {Optional}

4-Speed
* 4.33

Note: The 400/360 HP 'Ram Air' came through with an 'M-21' {Close-Ratio} Manual Transmission.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
1967 Pontiac 400/360 HP 'Ram Air'

Compression ............ 10.75 to 1
Piston Type ............... Flat w/Notches
Deck Height ............. .000"
Gasket Thickness ...... .042"

Camshaft ................. Hydraulic {#744}
Lift ......................... .424"/.424"
Duration .................. 301*/313*
Overlap .................... 76*
Centerline ................. 113* Intake / 118* Exhaust

Cylinder Heads ......... #670
Type ....................... Closed Chamber
CC's ........................ {Factory = 72.0} ~ {Minimum = 65.0}
Intake ..................... 2.11"
Exhaust ................... 1.77"

Intake Manifold ......... Cast Iron
Type ........................ Dual-Plane High-Rise

Carburetor ............... Rochester 4-MV
Throttle Bore Sizes ... 1 3/8" x 2.25"
CFM Rating .............. 750 {Advertised} ...... 730 {W.O.T. Flow Test}

Exhaust Header ........ 2.25"
Pipe Size ................. 2.25"
Click to expand...

That looks like G.M.'s goofy advertised duration( don't remember what liftier rise,measured at...) , actually a nice cam over the Ram Air 4 308/320 advertised grind.(daily street/strip use..)without 4:10-4:30' s out back. It's tuning abilities here,closer thank you think... Both cars tuned well , ( no cam swaps,or head porting..) Choose the G.T.O.... Pontiac ,knew how to match engine parts...
 
Abodybomber said:
That looks like G.M.'s goofy advertised duration( don't remember what liftier rise,measured at...) , actually a nice cam over the Ram Air 4 308/320 advertised grind.(daily street/strip use..)without 4:10-4:30' s out back. It's tuning abilities here,closer thank you think... Both cars tuned well , ( no cam swaps,or head porting..) Choose the G.T.O.... Pontiac ,knew how to match engine parts...
Click to expand...

A-Body-Bomber

Good points as usual.

Those #670 Cylinder Heads on the Pontiac 400/360 HP loved Low-Lift and High-Duration
Bumpsticks.

Also >

Some things that would make a big difference with the 4-Speed [Stock vs. Stock}

The Plymouth GTX came thru with the 'junk linkage' Inland Shifter.

The Pontiac GTO ......... 'Hurst Shifter'

Right off the Dealer Lot, the GTX would run into some shifting problems here.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
A-Body-Bomber

Good points as usual.

Those #670 Cylinder Heads on the Pontiac 400/360 HP loved Low-Lift and High-Duration
Bumpsticks.

Also >

Some things that would make a big difference with the 4-Speed [Stock vs. Stock}

The Plymouth GTX came thru with the 'junk linkage' Inland Shifter.

The Pontiac GTO ......... 'Hurst Shifter'

Right off the Dealer Lot, the GTX would run into some shifting problems here.
Click to expand...

amen on the junk shifters. but the times posted, ain`t actually what happened around here.:wack:
 
Famous Bob

Some Magazine Performance Times

Plymouth GTX 440/375 HP 'Super Commando'

Automatic ... 3.23 Gears ........... 14.40 @ 98.29 MPH
Automatic ... 3.23 Gears ........... 14.35 @ 99.07 MPH

Automatic ... 3.55 Gears ........... 14.29 @ 100.11 MPH

4-Speed ...... 3.54 Gears .......... 14.08 @ 100.84 MPH
4-Speed ...... 3.54 Gears .......... 14.33 @ 99.90 MPH

4-Speed ...... 4.10 Gears .......... 13.83 @ 102.27 MPH
4-Speed ...... 4.10 Gears .......... 13.60 @ 104.03 MPH .... w/8.00 x 15" 'Prowler' Cheater Slicks
 
The 670 head Ram Air 400's flew with proper gearing. It's always important to reference which "Ram Air" and year. That year with the 4.33 was a potent combination. Much quicker than the later Ram Air III. Probably similar performance to the later and more powerful Ram Air II and IV, which were in later/heavier cars.
 
Can I Guess Your Weight


1967 Plymouth GTX 'Hardtop' 440/375 HP

........................... Automatic ............. 4-Speed
Shipping Weight .... #3604 lbs. .......... #3715 lbs.
Curb Weight .......... #3754 lbs. .......... #3865 lbs.
____________________________________________________

1967 Pontiac GTO 'Hardtop' 400/360 HP "Ram Air'

.......................... Automatic ............. 4-Speed
Shipping Weight ...... #3430 lbs. .......... #3430 lbs.
Curb Weight ............ #3598 lbs. ......... #3598 lbs.
 
From my days at hanging around at Drag Strips, in the 60s, the majority of street driven Muscle Cars ran in the 14s and 15s. Most of those that ran in the 13s or faster were highly tuned and trailered in, -- OR -- were cheating. -- Just my 2 cents.
 
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