1968 '340' Barracuda vs 1968 '383' Road Runner

[cudavert]

Mopar got their 'tit' caught in the ringer when they claimed 335 HP for the 1968 383 Engine
in the Road Runner and Super Bee.

Everyone knew the earlier 383/325 HP and 383/330 HP (1967 and earlier 383's) had over-rated
Horsepower numbers. They were closer to 290 HP.

Chrysler could not rate the 1968 383 Horsepower properly.

The 1968 383 was closer to 310 HP, no matter what anybody says. The Road Runner and Super Bee
should have been running in G/S or G/SA in 1968 (11.00 - 11.49 Wt/Hp)

#3424 lbs. ~ 310 HP = { 11.04 Wt/Hp }

In January 1968, even Ronnie Sox said that the 68' 383/335 HP Road Runner would
get decimated in the NHRA Class of E/S or E/SA.

Sox & Martin refused to build a 383 Road Runner for Stock Class, and only had one for 'Show Only', which was 'not' NHRA Stock Legal.
Drag Performances.

310 HP seems almost pathetic! That's a LONNGGG way from 1 HP per cubic inch! I sure hope the Ford 390's that were rated at 335 HP were wrong too!!

 

[EL5DEMON340]

EL5 Demon 340,

No the NHRA dd not refactor the 340 to that high of number.

It was 310 HP.

That I know for fact, as we ran several 340's from late 1968 thru 1976.

The 1968 thru 1971 #3100 lb. 340 A-Body cars all fit into the {10.00 - 10.49 Wt/Hp} Factor.

* 1968 = E/S or SS/F
* 1969 = F/S or SS/J
* 1970 = G/S or SS/H
* 1971 = G/S or SS/I
* 1972 = SS/I
* 1972 = SS/I
* 1973 = SS/I
* 1974 = SS/I
* 1975 = SS/I
* 1976 = SS/I

Note; In 1968, SS/F was from .........9.50 and up Wt/Hp
Note; In 1969, SS/J was from..........10.00 and up Wt/Hp
Note; In 1970, SS/H was from..........9.50 and up Wt/Hp
Note; In 1971, SS/I was from..........10.00 - 10.49 Wt/Hp and stayed that way.

No i didn't mean 340 horsepower, i meant in 1971 the nhra refactored the HP number up to 310 due to the better intake and bigger better flowing TQ carb. the 71 340 engines had more HP than the earlier 340's buy a little bit maybe 10hp, and a lot more than the later 72 and on low compression small valve head 340's. Also wouldn't take NHRA numbers as the bible, they were just tring to get classes set up and make money!! Also there was a lot of sloppy machining back then, when i took out my 383 for a regasket i was expecting to find the factory 10.1 pistons about .020 down in the hole like so many other guys have said theirs were. but i was surprised to find one side at zero, and the other side starting at about .002 under at the front cyl and buy the back cyl .010 down. (theres that sloppy machining!) so if i had to guess the 383 in my RR was a better faster running 383 than one of the ones where the machining was worse and the pistons were down farther in the hole.

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Even the NHRA felt sorry for the 383/335 HP.

First refactoring the Horsepower down to 310 HP, and then again, down to 300 HP.

The 1968 '383' Road Runner or '383' Super Bee were 'no match' for the 340-S Barracuda's or 340 GTS Darts in E/S or E/SA in 1968.

Every Car Magazine performed 'Accelerated Timing Tests' on either the 383 Road Runner of 383 Super Bee.

Of course, with either a Standard 3.23 Gear Ratio or {3.55 Gear Ratio; Performance Axle Option}.

Note; The 3.91 Gear Ratio was only available through a 'Direct-Called' Special Factory Order.
In other words, 'you had to know somebody' in Plymouth or Dodge Performance Sales
at the Regional Office.

The Fastest
* Hot Rod Magazine..... 14.74 @ 98 MPH.... {4-Speed w/3.55 Gear Ratio}
* Hi Performance Car....14.86 @ 94 MPH..... {Automatic w/3.55 Gear Ratio}

The Slowest
* Car Life Magazine....... 15.31 @ 91 MPH... {Automatic w/3.23 Gear Ratio}

 

[EL5DEMON340]

Even the NHRA felt sorry for the 383/335 HP.

First refactoring the Horsepower down to 310 HP, and then again, down to 300 HP.

The 1968 '383' Road Runner or '383' Super Bee were 'no match' for the 340-S Barracuda's or 340 GTS Darts in E/S or E/SA in 1968.

Every Car Magazine performed 'Accelerated Timing Tests' on either the 383 Road Runner of 383 Super Bee.

Of course, with either a Standard 3.23 Gear Ratio or {3.55 Gear Ratio; Performance Axle Option}.

Note; The 3.91 Gear Ratio was only available through a 'Direct-Called' Special Factory Order.
In other words, 'you had to know somebody' at the Plymouth or Dodge Performance Sales
at the Regional Office.

The Fastest
* Hot Rod Magazine..... 14.74 @ 98 MPH.... {4-Speed w/3.55 Gear Ratio}
* Hi Performance Car....14.86 @ 94 MPH..... {Automatic w/3.55 Gear Ratio}

The Slowest
* Car Life Magazine....... 15.31 @ 91 MPH... {Automatic w/3.23 Gear Ratio}

not real sure where your going with this but a 68 RR was an instant hit regularly beating 396/350hp chevelles and BB GTO's, they were much more popular than the performance darts and barracudas, sellin about 45K and a little over 1,000 were made with hemis, in 69 they sold over 84K for the car of the year!! this was largely due to the power, reliability, indestructibility and the win to loss ratio on the street (NOT NHRA BS) of the 68 383 BEEP BEEP, the RR in the first few years was a hi performance muscle car only, no /6 or sb!! this gave it instant street creditability and respect!

 

[EL5DEMON340]

the RR stacked up just fine with its competitors

In the 1967 Motor Trend Magazine 'Super Cars' of compartive new Model 1968 cars,
considered 'mid-size performance cars', with a weight/horsepower factor of 10.00 and up.

1968 Road Runner 383/335HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3424 (10.22 wt/hp)
1968 Dodge Super Bee 383/335HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3440 (10.26 wt/hp)
1968 Dodge Charger 383/330P,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3581 (10.85 wt/hp)
1968 Chevelle SS396 396/350HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3549 (10.14 wt/hp)
1968 Buick GS 400 400/340 HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3512 (10.33 wt/hp)
1968 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 400/350HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3510 (10.03 wt/hp)
1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass 350/325HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3271 (10.06 wt/hp)
1968 Pontiac GTO 400/350HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3504 (10.01 wt/hp)
1968 Pontiac Lemans 350/320HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3498 (10.93 wt/hp)
1968 Ford Fairlane 390/325HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3429 (10.55 wt/hp)
1968 Ford Torino GT 390/325HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3487 (10.73 wt/hp)
1968 Mercury Cyclone 390/325HP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,car weight #3487 (10.73 wt/hp)
1968 American Motors Rebel SST 390/315 HP,,,car weight #3443 (10.93 wt/hp)

Motor Trend (December 1967)

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Mr EL5 Demon,

The above posted Documentation is what 'I' posted on Class Racer previously in my
information regarding the 1968 Road Runner.

This thread has nothing to do with the 'popularity' of the 1968 Road Runner.

It was 'marketed' as an 'Econo-Racer'.

This comparison is based on Drag Strip Performance between the 1968 340 A-Body and 383 B-Body

I lived it, and the 68' 383 Road Runner or 383 Super Bee - Classed in E/S or E/SA in
1968 and F/S or F/SA in 1969 were always 'clobbered' by the 'Mini Hercules 340' at the Drag Strip back then.

More to Come,,,,,,,,,,and you should reference where you get posted information from - like the 'above information'......

Paul





Good Hunting......

 

[EL5DEMON340]

i was under the impression that was motor trends published numbers, but if there your intellectual property, and your list my apologys. the question of the 383 being over rated at 335hp has been a topic that has been talked to death about, mopar muscle did a good stock build and the 335 hp number was verified, obviously some engines are weeker than others due to the loose tolerances of the day but some like my 383 were close to the published CR etc.

 

[EL5DEMON340]

here are some back in the day times by MT and HR magazine, why was the 383 able to run faster than the 340 if it was like you say at least 30hp overrated, and i would bet the 383 cars had a bit more wheel spin than the SB.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

1968 Plymouth Barracuda 340-S (CL)​

340ci/275hp, 3spd auto, 3.23, 0-60 - 7.0, 1/4 mile - 14.97 @ 95.4mph​

1968 Plymouth Barracuda 340-S (MT)​

340ci/275hp, 4spd, 3.23, 0-60 - 8.1, 1/4 mile - 15.2 @ 92mph​

1968 Plymouth Road Runner (MT)​

383ci/335hp, 4spd, 3.23, 0-60 - 6.8, 1/4 mile - 15.0 @ 93mph​

1968 Plymouth Road Runner (HR)​

383ci/335hp, 4spd, 3.55, 0-60 - 6.2, 1/4 mile - 14.74 @ 98mph​

1968 Plymouht Road Runner (CD)​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]426ci/425hp, 3spd auto, 3.55, 0-60 - n/a, 1/4 mile - 13.54 @ 105.10mph

NHRA from back in the day i have no clue what they were doing or rating stuff at, all i know is now its less popular than men gymnastics LOL[/FONT]

("Chrysler could not rate the 1968 383 Horsepower properly.

"The 1968 383 was closer to 310 HP, no matter what anybody says. The Road Runner and Super Bee
should have been running in G/S or G/SA in 1968 (11.00 - 11.49 Wt/Hp)")

Why couldn't they rate the hp correctly??? the guys that gave us the hemi, and the ramchargers, is this your opinion or is this a statement made by a nhra or Chrysler official?





























​

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Mr. EL5 DEMON,

No problem in posting my information from Class Racer.

It is good to see it used for reference purposes. That's why I posted it.

Good Homework on your part.

The NHRA just didn't just re-factor the Mopar 340/275 HP to 310 HP in 1968.

They also re-factored the 426/425 HP Street Hemi to '465 HP'

The Chevrolet 302/290 HP 'Z-28' was re-factored to 315 HP

The Chevrolet 'L-78' 396/375 HP was re-factored to 395 HP.

The Ford Cobra-Jet 'R-Code 428/335 HP was re-factored to 355 HP with the Ram-Air Option.

The 428/335 HP 'Q-Code' non Ram-Air was re-factored to 345 HP

 

[Hersbird]

The factory ratings were almost never over estimates. They could get sued (and did) for that. They also weren't usually off what they claimed. What usually was the case in an under rated motor is it wasn't finished pulling at the RPM the HP was published.
So the 383 although in the heavier car did make more torque even if HP was close. It also made it early and constant. In modern 5 and 6 speed cars where you can keep the powerband up HP rules, but on a 3 speed auto I would like the torque.

 

[Bulldozer]

who cares. this is just another one of 69 Cuda 440's mopar engine/performance bashing threads. the dude never has anything positive to say or present about our mopars. I think there is some chevy love in there somewhere

 

[69 Cuda 440]

73 AbodEE,

You filthy liar..........

From 1966 and on........I'm all Mopar, Everyday.

I knew how to make 383's run, before you put your first Model together.......

Just because you don't like the Comparison Thread between the 1968 '340' and 1968 '383',
and the truth about it,,,,,,,,,,,,

Even Sox & Martin in 1968 refused to run a Road Runner in E/Stock for
Chrysler Performance, and opted to run their 68' 340 Barracuda 'shop car' in E/SA.

Car Craft Magaizne {May 1968} 1968 NHRA Horsepower Factors

 

[Bulldozer]

73 AbodEE,

You filthy liar..........

I'm all Mopar, Everyday.

From 1966 and on.......

Just because you don't like the Comparison Thread between the 1968 '340' and 1968 '383',
and the truth about it,,,,,,,,,,,,

Even Sox & Martin in 1968 refused to run a Road Runner in E/Stock for
Chrysler Performance, and opted to run their 68' 340 Barracuda 'shop car' in E/SA.

if you must call names , then there must be some truth to my post ...I just got out of the shower, and, if you bleed mopar , then why don't you impress us with all your knowledge and show us some comparisons of mopar against the competition ! every thread I read from you is nothing but mopar sucks here and didn't do that and is lacking in every area. I don't care that S&M refused to run a road runner in E/Stock, all I care about is chevy and ford getting their *** kicked...

 

[69 Cuda 440]

OK Mr. Body EE,

Besides owning many Mopars,,,,,,

Here is some Mopar History,

When Plymouth introduced the 383 Road Runner in October 1967, the Sales Department
wanted to offer an Optional 'Super Road Runner 383' with 3.91 Gears, but the GTX Sales
Department halted that in fear that the 'Super 383' Road Runner would outrun the 440 GTX.

The Chrysler Performance Sales Departments were fighting with each other.

When racing in late-1967, the 383 Road Runner found itself classed in NHRA B/S or B/SA,
competing against the 440 GTX cars.

 

[V-100]

Relax guys, it isn't worth getting that upset about

 

[OldmanRick]

Relax guys, it isn't worth getting that upset about

I agree "V". The numbers from the factory were played with for many reasons, and NHRA could care less what the numbers were, as long as they equaled the performances in the classes. With that said, you can glean a little info on the true performance by how they up or downed the factored numbers on certain engines.

 

[fishmens67]

I guess you never ran into mr E-BERG in his 383 roadrunner.ask him about the bigblock xbrands he smoked back in the day.

 

[EL5DEMON340]

Smoked my buddys 67 chevelle 396 with my stock except for a 220 @.050 cam in the RR above. his 67 has aluminum intake, demon carb, 4 speed, and 4.11 gears. mines stock except the small cam and i have a 4-gear with 3.23. I was even surprised i won LOL !!!

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Some Numbers and Facts,

At the start of the 1968 NHRA Season,

The National Records to work off of.
E/S ...... 12.90 @ 107.01 MPH
E/SA .... 12.93 @ 109.09 MPH

Sox & Martin had built a 68' 383 Road Runner (in December 1967) to compete in E/S at
the 1968 NHRA Winternationals, but they got stuck in the 13.15 range during testing.

They pulled a best ET of 13.12, and that was with 8" Wide-Slicks, not the 7" NHRA maximum
width for Stock Class.

They never brought the car out to California with them in January 1968.

At the time, Plymouth 'marketed' The 383 Road Runner as a "Quarter-Mile in 100 MPH"
and a "Econo-Racer That Can Run 14-Seconds Flat", when they knew at best it was
14.80 car with the best factory offered Gear-Ratio of 3.55's.

Even Ronnie Sox had stated that the car was 'over-matched' for E/Stock, as it
was under-carbed and under-cammed to be a dominant stocker.

 

[bobscuda67]

I owned a factory stock 1969 383 Magnum Roadrunner 4 speed in 1973. I easily beat every 390 Ford product I came up against. It was right there with all the other brands in it's engine size. I was quicker than my friend's 340 68 Barracuda too.
The 440 b bodies would get me at top end but 1/8 mile was even. The 383 ran well on the street.

 

[69 Cuda 440]

In 1968,

Sox & Martin would bring a 1968 383 Road Runner (Pillared Coupe) to their Super Car Clinics,
and also to the local Track's where they were running Match Race Events.

It was a legal street driven-car, that Ronnie Sox or Jerry Gross would take enthusiastic and
thrill-seeking gear-heads for a short blast down the street, for those who came to their
1968 Car Clinics.

It was set-up with E/S lettered on the 'C' Pillar, but the car had 'SHOW' lettered on the windows,
and they never ran it in Legal E/Stock.

The car had 8" wide Street-Legal Cheater-Slicks on it.

A 'SHOW CAR', much like the 'Smothers Brothers' with their 1968 4-4-2.

 

[EL5DEMON340]

In 1968,

Sox & Martin would bring a 1968 383 Road Runner (Pillared Coupe) to their Super Car Clinics,
and also to the local Track's where they were running Match Race Events.

It was a legal street driven-car, that Ronnie Sox or Jerry Gross would take enthusiastic and
thrill-seeking gear-heads for a short blast down the street, for those who came to their
1968 Car Clinics.

It was set-up with E/S lettered on the 'C' Pillar, but the car had 'SHOW' lettered on the windows,
and they never ran it in Legal E/Stock.

The car had 8" wide Street-Legal Cheater-Slicks on it.

A 'SHOW CAR', much like the 'Smothers Brothers' with their 1968 4-4-2.

goes to show you, the public was clamoring for a glimpse of the new super muscle car that everyone was talking about !! And even pontiac with the GTO was very worried about. Guys didn't care about NHRA E/S class, it was a fast, cheep, muscle car that was as strong as an ox, with a cool to this day lovable cartoon character that everyone could relate to. Ronnie Sox was on the Chrysler pay roll and i'm just guessing they said sell the RR so he did, then in 69 was named car of the year, and beat the GTO sales, and i think S&M ran a 69 RR 6bbl that year ? Guys with NHRA and some guys like yourself back then i guess thought the 383 335hp engine was a turd, but luckily the the guys that mattered like the buying public and Chrysler thought different, its OK, i don't care for most of the ford engines but if a nice 69 mach 1 was available i would defiantly consider it because it a mean looking ride!

 

['73red-duster]

I',m not bashing the 383's, but there was a reason we referred to 340's as "Giant Killers" back then.

 

[69 Cuda 440]

The 1968 383 Road Runner was 'brilliantly' marketed by Plymouth.

* 'Econo-Racer'.
* '100 MPH in a Quarter-Mile'
* '14-Seconds In The Quarter-Mile For Less Than $3000'
* 'Plymouth Is Out To Win You Over'

Not that Plymouth was out to 'capture' any Stock Eliminator Meets, but
they did have an aggressive campaign by offering 'Cash Pay-Outs' if you
could prove that you won a Stock Eliminator Event at your Local Drag Strip.

Not a Class Trophy, but Stock Eliminator.

'Win On Sunday, Sell On Monday'

Most guys knew that the 383 Road Runner was better suited for the Street,
with some 'proven upgrades'.

A) The .484 Lift/284* Duration Hydraulic Camshaft.
B) Matched Lifters
C) Adjustable Push Rods, or Adjustable Rocker Arms
D) Edelbrock Aluminum High-Rise Intake
E) Holley 780 CFM Vacuum Secondary Carburetor
F) Dual-Point Distributor
G) Cheater-Slicks

With 3.91 Gears and Headers, they could run 13.60's @ 104 MPH, and be perfectly
suited for street driving.

 

[Hersbird]

In 1968, just like in 2013 the mid size car is what a majory was buying if buying a car. No matter how you slice it in equal cars in stock from the 383 was quicker then a 340. Are you claiming that a 68 340s was qucker then a 383s? How come the giant killer 340 wasn't killing that giant? Or in 71 was a 340 roadrunner quicker then a 383? Finally who was smarter back in 1968 paying a few hundered more for a roadrunner when its worth almost twice a 340 a body. I love my 68 Barracuda but I would also love a 68 Roadrunner just as much, I just can't afford a 68 roadrunner!