1969 Dart GT 440 vs. 2010 Camaro SS/RS

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dusterdoug said:
Who cares about a curvy road?? Last I heard a drag race didn't have curves. Next you'll want what...a gas mileage contest??

Pics of the Dart please!
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dusterdoug said:
Apples and oranges that does not apply. Drag races aren't decided on who's got cup holders.
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318willrun said:
Still don't get it. A guy beats a Camaro and its like "bet he is safer with his air bags, so there"... or "now you have to beat him from 60-0 in a braking contest". Man, oh man. lol By the way, I saw a brand new 2012 Camaro SS at the dragway last year go 14.00 flat at 100 mph 3 straight runs. I wasn't overly impressed....
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no ****. but bragging because someone only put 17K into their car to beat a car that someone paid 30K for in a straight line is pretty stupid when the 30K car does at least twice as much better.. it should cost half as much if it does less then half what the 30k car does.

the camaro is built to do more then one thing. apparently the dart is not. i'm sure there are cars out there that guys spent less then 17k on that will beat this dart.

personally i don't get the entire thread to start with. still no times or mph listed.
 
SpareParts said:
I was just pointing out the potential. Hell there's a stock bottom end 5.3 LS that just went 5.19 1/8 they are impressive.
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They are a good platform, no doubt about it. Very strong bottom end and valvetrain.

abodyjoe said:
what kind of times did both cars run?? what was the mph of both cars?

It was a street race. I thought that was obvious. No one does roll ons at the drag strip.

most challenger guys i know that run autos run with the traction control on. and even then its tricky to launch them. the guys that have figured them out can get a basically stock r/t into the real low 13's while others are running high 13's to mid 14's.

He had the T-control off and none were from a dead stop. had that been the case the massacre would have been worse as my car hooks very well even on the street.

ok so you are at about half way to the price of a new camaro. and so far all you did was beat it in the quarter mile. now go make it not only beat it in the quarter mile. make it beat it in comfort, luxury,cornering,stopping and mpg. then let me know how much cheaper the dart was to build. the camaro like the new challenger and mustang are built to be all around good performers not just a straight line piece.
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If I wanted all that stuff, i'd buy something else. I want classic muscle. So I own classic muscle. That is better than stock used to be.

318willrun said:
Still don't get it. A guy beats a Camaro and its like "bet he is safer with his air bags, so there"... or "now you have to beat him from 60-0 in a braking contest". Man, oh man. lol By the way, I saw a brand new 2012 Camaro SS at the dragway last year go 14.00 flat at 100 mph 3 straight runs. I wasn't overly impressed....
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I know, it was a drag race. The camaro ran a 12.87 when factory tested.

abodyjoe said:
no ****. but bragging because someone only put 17K into their car to beat a car that someone paid 30K for in a straight line is pretty stupid when the 30K car does at least twice as much better.. it should cost half as much if it does less then half what the 30k car does.

the camaro is built to do more then one thing. apparently the dart is not. i'm sure there are cars out there that guys spent less then 17k on that will beat this dart.

personally i don't get the entire thread to start with. still no times or mph listed.
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I don't like the term bragging but no, I enjoyed sparking his arse publicly for a couple reasons.

1. It was a chevy, run by a typical chevy guy.

2. People think these things are so damn fast. It's nice to see an old cheapo muscle car detsroy one.

3. It gave me some perspective on how fast my car is. (it gave him some perspective too, lol).

REad the original post MPH's listed, no times becasue they were street races. You know where cars spend 90% of their time...

Also, my car is setup to run straight line. Can it be made to do more? Look at that yellow thing in your sig.. yes. But as we know there is no free lunch.
 
AbodyJoe, I too don't really get the thread, other than conversation of a mopar beatn a chevy. He was happy to beat his buddy, I guess. However, the person that started this thread in the original post did not mention the cost of the cars. He was told by another member to compare $ for $, mod for mod. See how quickly new threads get detoured? That is why the quotes from us that you posted are simply sticking to the original topic of a straight race between two cars. The original post wasn't talking about curves, who brought that up? Or who spent the most? Just a simple story of an old school mopar beating the new muscle bowtie, for whatever it was worth. Personally, I think an aluminum head big block in a A-body should be expected to wipe out that Camaro...
 
318willrun said:
AbodyJoe, I too don't really get the thread, other than conversation of a mopar beatn a chevy. He was happy to beat his buddy, I guess. However, the person that started this thread in the original post did not mention the cost of the cars. He was told by another member to compare $ for $, mod for mod. See how quickly new threads get detoured? That is why the quotes from us that you posted are simply sticking to the original topic of a straight race between two cars. The original post wasn't talking about curves, who brought that up? Or who spent the most? Just a simple story of an old school mopar beating the new muscle bowtie, for whatever it was worth. Personally, I think an aluminum head big block in a A-body should be expected to wipe out that Camaro...
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Thank you! Really simple, my car spanked a brand new camaro. I was kind of happy with this. WTF? not too hard to get that. To say this thred got off topic is an understantment. You'd think guys on a MOPAr A body only site would appeciate such a public spectacle.

The BB dart, expected to win? by me, or us, yes. By a lot of guys out there, chevy guys including the owner of this car? No. They think these things are the fastest thing going. You have no idea how bummed out and flabergasted this guy was. He's still talking about it. I enjoyed the my dart, the underdog, spanking the perceived bad as$
 
Hey rocco, don't let em get to ya, mr chevy wanted a street race and got one, and lost to a old dodge. Simple. I don't know what all this curves and a/c and all that other crap has to do with it.
 
2. People think these things are so damn fast. It's nice to see an old cheapo muscle car detsroy one.

3. It gave me some perspective on how fast my car is. (it gave him some perspective too, lol).
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they are fast for an off the showroom turn key car. would tear the hell out of what was considered fast back in the original muscle car days.

not sure what kind of perspective beating a so called slug on the street could give ya. go run at the track where you get real numbers and see how fast it really is and how much power both cars really have. a 440 dart set up to go in a straight line. should beat a stock camaro in a straight line
 
318willrun said:
AbodyJoe, I too don't really get the thread, other than conversation of a mopar beatn a chevy. He was happy to beat his buddy, I guess. However, the person that started this thread in the original post did not mention the cost of the cars. He was told by another member to compare $ for $, mod for mod. See how quickly new threads get detoured? That is why the quotes from us that you posted are simply sticking to the original topic of a straight race between two cars. The original post wasn't talking about curves, who brought that up? Or who spent the most? Just a simple story of an old school mopar beating the new muscle bowtie, for whatever it was worth. Personally, I think an aluminum head big block in a A-body should be expected to wipe out that Camaro...
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this isn't the OP?
roccodart440 said:
Camaro was over 30g's + the mods. My car cost me about 17,000. I'm stil not impressed. That camaro is a PIG.

He called me today, still bummed...
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That was written by me after the question/comment came up. It wasnt the original post.

You know another thing that made me happy is that alot of my friends thought his car would beat me, and badly. People percieve these new cars to be abosolute animals. I was proud of my car and still am.

My car will go to the track. I hope when I post those numbers I can expect a more positive response from you

Very disspointed in your responses JOe. Very unexpected from you.
 
You know another thing that made me happy is that alot of my friends thought his car would beat me, and badly. People percieve these new cars to be abosolute animals. I was proud of my car and still am.
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lots of stupid in this world. like i said they are fast for something you can buy off the show room floor. but they aren't usually going to beat a purpose built car.



Very disspointed in your responses JOe. Very unexpected from you.
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disappointed? lol. whys that? i'm no camaro lover but a post of beating a new camaro is no big deal without numbers. like i said the camaro was built to do many things good and it does those things good. to me it sounds like the dart was built to do one thing good. it may or may not do that good. we will find out when you post numbers from the track.

its all relative. if you beat the camaro by a lot and its only a 14.5 car then how fast is the dart really? now if the camaro goes low 13's and you beat it by that much then the dart sounds like it runs pretty good. could go either way. but without a time slip it really means nothing.. :)
 
No truth like an E.T. slip, agreed. But nobody cares about your E.T. slip when your on the street, egos are high, friends watching and your LOOSING!!! Also, I would hope 40 years of "high tech" advancement would produce something.... STILL, my eyes did NOT lie : 2012 SS (automatic) Camaro ran 14.00 flat at 100 mph 3 runs in a row. I can get that from a 42 yr old '70 340 duster by just giving it traction. Just how far did GM get? I thought certain Camaros ran that time in '69? Oh, sorry, forgot about the corners.... lol
 
STILL, my eyes did NOT lie : 2012 SS (automatic) Camaro ran 14.00 flat at 100 mph 3 runs in a row.
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well then beating it shouldn't have been a problem for a 440 abody. if a 440 abody doesn't beat a 14 second car there are serious issues.

like i said but some don't seem to understand. the new cars (camaro,mustang and challenger) were built to do more then one thing well and that they do. they should be beat by a straight line purpose built car.





So, How Fast is It?

The quickest of the new Camaros is the SS model with the automatic gearbox, which sprints to 60 mph in 4.6 seconds. While this is 0.2 second better than the more powerful, manual-equipped car’s time of 4.8, the off-the-line advantage quickly fades, with the manual tripping the quarter-mile lights in 13 seconds flat at 111 mph versus the auto’s 13.1 at 109.
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thats from car and driver.... now if the dart beat a 13.1 camaro in a straight line like it should then it runs decent.

but, if it only beat a 14 second camaro then it may or may not run decent.

the new muscle cars seem to be all about the driver (like any car really). i've seen pretty much stock challengers go 13.1 in the quarter and others equipped the same way run a 14 second quarter mile. even with traction control you need to know how to drive them.
 
I can get that from a 42 yr old '70 340 duster by just giving it traction. Just how far did GM get? I thought certain Camaros ran that time in '69? Oh, sorry, forgot about the corners.... lol
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what that 40 years got GM was a well rounded car that does a lot of things better.

they now run better in all different weather, more comfort in all weather, stop better, corner better, are safer, and get 3 times the MPG, and not to mention fit and finish is light years above what ya got in 69..all that while weighing what 1000 pounds more?. like i said they were built to do many thing good and that is what they do.
 
Exactly why I stated that an aluminum head 440 dart should be expected to clean up a 2010 SS, even with exhaust and intake. I personally talked with the guy that bought the new 2012 SS in the pit. He had just bought it brand new. It was an automatic, so no messing up on shifting and he had no wheel spin (great track prep). 14.00 at 100mph, that's it! We have lots of air in IL too. But I think we should focus more on the MOPAR than the chivvy. That dart should punch mid 11's ??? I seen a cast head, single 4bbl 440 dart with 3.91's punch 10.50's, but he had slicks and open headers. All steel car too.
 
Almost all those "well rounded" advancements, Abodyjoe, are available in a new Toyota Camry. Or Honda Civic. I think we understand what airbags, FI, GPS, struts, and other standard equipment on ANY of todays cars are. You don't have to buy the Camaro to get them. Stop making out like GM "broke through" with these "only in a Camaro" options. The guy that raced the OP dart was not worried about his cruise or anti-lock brakes. He bought an SS and lined it up against a built 440 Dart. He thought he would win, his mistake, and I will laugh with the OP dart, he he he HA!
 
oh brother.. you just don't get it..

no crap all those other makes have that. we are talking rear wheel muscle here..

like i said a dozen times here already. i don't see what the big deal is. the dart should have beaten the camaro. there is a serious issue if it didn't. and we don't even know how well that 440 even runs if it only beat a 14 second camaro... hell i know my lil 360 knocked quite a few big blocks off when i used to run it. big deal would have knocked off a new mustang,camaro and chally also in the quarter mile also. but it was still shitty in every other way ( except maybe for the corners)when comparing it with modern muscle. but saying i only have 17k into my car and the camaro cost 30+k is where it gets stupid. theres a reason it costs more, look how much more you get for that extra money.. you get a car light years better that does much more then go in a straight line. the camaro,mustang and challengers are all designed to do more then just go in a straight line.

maybe the camaro owner though his ***** was faster. i don't know.. i do know that a 440 dart should beat a stock camaro in a straight line. if not there's an issue. the other thing i know is that the camaro in the long run is a lot better rounded car. thats all i'm saying but for some reason your not under standing that.
 
And I thought this thread was about a stock dart 440 (if it ever came with that option) vs a new stock Camero... I was thinking the dart's gonna lose if it didn't have modern tires at least.
 
reminds me of my first 70 Dart 318 with headers and a 600 holley carb would stomp on the new GTs in 1988 and with them using nitrous lol I had about 500.00 in my car not to mention them v6 turbo regals I could walk them too, I still say electronics are not going to out run good ol fashion carburaters headers etc etc and at a lot cheaper cost
 
Imagine our surprise, then, when he finished a few seconds ahead of the 6- speed, 4-wheel-disc Camaro. Seems that Hayner had looped the Camaro briefly on lap one, at the last turn before the start/finish line, allowing our Valiant to sneak by.
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;)

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/lapping-valiant.html

the valiant started that race 15sec after the Camaro. and that was no stock Camaro.
and that was not a straight line race...
 
moparlover said:
;)

http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/lapping-valiant.html

the valiant started that race 15sec after the Camaro. and that was no stock Camaro.
and that was not a straight line race...
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be carefull, some body is gonna say something to the effect of "the green brick ran well because of the driver" and try to discredit the fact that the car had to be able to run and handle at those speeds.... That Camaro also had a hired professional driver, and I think a SB2 chevy nascar mill. These are the same guys who don't think a torsion bar suspension can kick ***, so they buy a 9K aftermarket setup, to drive to cruise ins....
 
These are the same guys who don't think a torsion bar suspension can kick ***, so they buy a 9K aftermarket setup,
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don't think anyone says the torsion bars can't handle. but how doe it ride if out of the street? my guess is that the brick would also ride like one. t was a purpose built car that did what it was built for.
 
abodyjoe said:
don't think anyone says the torsion bars can't handle. but how doe it ride if out of the street? my guess is that the brick would also ride like one. t was a purpose built car that did what it was built for.
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Actually, we have found out the torsion bar suspension actually has BETTER ride quality, even in race trim, compared to any of the GM stuff we race against... Where they need to run 1000 lb spring rates to handle, (Camaros) we can run 1.03 bars, and kill them in the corners. The rougher the race track, the better we are, and we race against the best stuff in the country around here.....NASCAR crap is everywhere here, concord/charlotte area
 
Yea, you kicked his ***, but he has you on the cup holders, about 12-0!!! Thanks for posting, it's nice to hear he got a whoopin!!
 
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