1972 dart 318 problem starting

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Joe1972dart

Joe1972dart

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How's it going guys, not sure if I am posting this in the right spot please move if not. A few months back to maybe a year ago my car has been having problems starting. I replaced the choke pull off as it was not working. Now the car will crank in park and will not start most of the time if it was not used earlier in the day, but the car will start most of the time in neutral. After driving the car and shutting it off and trying to restart the car it for the most part will restart in park.

Has anyone ran into this problem that can steer me in the right direction for a fix.

Thank you
 
Joe1972dart said:
How's it going guys, not sure if I am posting this in the right spot please move if not. A few months back to maybe a year ago my car has been having problems starting. I replaced the choke pull off as it was not working. Now the car will crank in park and will not start most of the time if it was not used earlier in the day, but the car will start most of the time in neutral. After driving the car and shutting it off and trying to restart the car it for the most part will restart in park.

Has anyone ran into this problem that can steer me in the right direction for a fix.

Thank you
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When it cranks but doesn't start in park, do you have spark or fuel in the carb? When it doesn't start, do you immediately put the car in neutral to start it or has it cranked for a bit? I think verifying you have fuel and spark when it cranks but doesn't fire is the first step.
 
Joe1972dart said:
Now the car will crank in park and will not start most of the time if it was not used earlier in the day, but the car will start most of the time in neutral. After driving the car and shutting it off and trying to restart the car it for the most part will restart in park
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I think rammer jammer is on the right track.


What you are describing sounds like the typical carbonated car being harder to start than an EFI we have all gotten used to.


Drive car today or yesterday, 1 to 2 pumps of the pedal and it will fire in a second or two.

Let it sit for a week and it takes more pumps and more cranking time.


My guess is you are cranking in park and almost getting to the point it will fire.
You give up and put it in neutral and try again and it fired.

That leads you to believe it will fire in neutral but not park most of the time.


My 67 dart 2bbl 273.

If I started it yesterday, 2 pumps and a few seconds of cranking and it fired right up

If I started it last week, 4 pumps, a few seconds of cranking, stop. A few more seconds of cranking and it will typically fire.

If not, give it part throttle and a few more seconds of cranking and it will fire.


I would check that the accelerator pump is actually shooting fuel into the carb. Next time you go to start car after a week BEFORE you do any cranking.

Pop the hood, remove the air cleaner, open the choke and look down the carb while moving the accelerator linkage to full throttle you should see a full stream of fuel shoot in.


As for the neutral safety switch..


All it does (unless modified or damaged) is make a path to ground for the starter relay in neutral or park.


Now MAYBE there is a wire dangeling near the shifter linkage and in park it is causing issues, and I neutral it is not.

Worth looking at.
 
Dana67Dart said:
My guess is you are cranking in park and almost getting to the point it will fire.
You give up and put it in neutral and try again and it fired.
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Joe, my guess is the same as this. So with a mechanical fuel pump, cranking the motor is how it works (when the motor is off). If your car sits for any more than a day or 2, the gas likely evaporated from the carb. That means you gotta crank it and crank it for the fuel to pump into the carb and THEN it starts. Obviously if you drove it earlier that day, it's full of fuel already.
I do one of 2 things to fix this. I temporarily have an electric fuel pump that I turn on to fill the carb, then I start it. OR just grab a gas jug or squirt bottle and fill the fuel bowls with fuel and give the throttle a pump or 2 to get the fuel goin and that puppy will fire right up.
 
Just to further clarify both responses, the electrical paths in either park or neutral are exactly the same. The shifter mechanism, via the transmission neutral safety switch, grounds the circuit for the starter relay and allows the ignition switch to activate that relay, in either park or neutral.

In other words if the starter operates properly, the problem is somewhere else
 
RammerJammer75 said:
When it cranks but doesn't start in park, do you have spark or fuel in the carb? When it doesn't start, do you immediately put the car in neutral to start it or has it cranked for a bit? I think verifying you have fuel and spark when it cranks but doesn't fire is the first step.
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Have fuel in the carb, has a steady stream of gas from the accelerator pump, have checked that already. As for if it doesn't start in park I usually crank to get the fuel pump moving some gas, then pump it a few times and if it does not start I then try and put it in neutral to see if it will start, most times once put into neutral it will start right up. If the car does not start in neutral I will have someone crank the car in park and take the air cleaner lid off and hold the throttle at almost wot and have them crank and then it will start but will smoke like it is flooded. Carb has been rebuilt within the last 4 to 5 years. I will have to check spark when trying to start it and see if I get any.
 
Joe1972dart said:
How's it going guys, not sure if I am posting this in the right spot please move if not. A few months back to maybe a year ago my car has been having problems starting. I replaced the choke pull off as it was not working. Now the car will crank in park and will not start most of the time if it was not used earlier in the day, but the car will start most of the time in neutral.
Click to expand...

Sounds like fuel evaporation but starting in neutral shouldn't make a difference.
Joe1972dart said:
After driving the car and shutting it off and trying to restart the car it for the most part will restart in park.
Click to expand...
It still sounds like fuel evaporation causing the issue.
Joe1972dart said:
Thank you
Click to expand...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, usually if a nss goes or is on its way out it will not attempt to start/crank
 
toolmanmike said:
Sounds like fuel evaporation but starting in neutral shouldn't make a difference.

It still sounds like fuel evaporation causing the issue.
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I know after a few days the carb could evaporate the fuel, but like you said it would not explain starting in neutral.
 
Joe1972dart said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, usually if a nss goes or is on its way out it will not attempt to start/crank
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It probably won't crank. It depends how it failed. It might not crank at all or it may crank in any gear.
 
Joe1972dart said:
I know after a few days the carb could evaporate the fuel, but like you said it would not explain starting in neutral.
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Starting or cranking in neutral? I bet 2 different issues.
 
not saying this is a fix but wire that choke wide open and see what happens. I have ran a 600 Holley and a 750 Edelbrock and mine starts every time, it does need a little coaxing untill it warms up though. another thing, plugs gotta be good and timing set right ...fire right up every time. thing is to know what to focus your attention on, and things like timing and carb ajustment go together. Vacuum leaks? hows the intake gaskets etc.? vacuum hoses?
 
Joe1972dart said:
then it will start but will smoke like it is flooded
Click to expand...
It might be!


Joe1972dart said:
then pump it a few times
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How many is a few?

What you describ here is how you clear a flooded carb.

Joe1972dart said:
I will have someone crank the car in park and take the air cleaner lid off and hold the throttle at almost wot and have them crank
Click to expand...


I really think you are complicating a user error issue.


1. If you can press the accelerator down after a week and you get a shot of fuel you do not need to crank before you try to start it.
2. 1 week, no more then 4 pumps probably 3 is sufecient.
3. Crank it for 4 seconds with throttle closed.
4. Crank again for 4 seconds
5. If it does not start press throttle 1/2 way to floor and crank another 4 seconds.


Something that might not have been brought up. Check that you have battery voltage at the coil while cranking.
 
Started the car like 2 hrs ago after not starting for about 3 days, car started it park after cranking for a few seconds giving it 2 pumps and just cranking again. Noticed Ignition box on fender is leaking some goo and ballast resistor very hot to touch (not sure if that is right).
 
Joe1972dart said:
Started the car like 2 hrs ago after not starting for about 3 days, car started it park after cranking for a few seconds giving it 2 pumps and just cranking again. Noticed Ignition box on fender is leaking some goo and ballast resistor very hot to touch (not sure if that is right).
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Time for a new ignition box for sure. The potting material is melting and leaking out. @halifaxhops can hook you up with a quality replacement. You will probably need to resistance check the ballast to make sure it is ok. We can chat about that here.
 
The ignition box potting material - the goo you see - tends to degrade after 30-50 years. :p Do a search to find suitable replacements, maybe silicone caulk? Ballasts are normally hot, that's why they're ceramic.
 
Would the ballast be so hot to the touch that you could only place a finger on it for a second? The goo on the box I would assume only started oozing out within the last week.
 
During cranking, there is NO current flow through the 0.5 ohm BR, which is connected to the coil. So it should nt be hot during cranking. Once the engine is running, it is in the cct & current flows through it. I would expect it to take a few minutes though to get hot. This assumes wiring is correct.
 
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