200-R4 transmission behind mopar stroker

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Revhendo said:
So does this mean you are now going 4l80? Perhaps you should wait and see how Mopar To Ya's install goes and decide from there. I know what Doug is doing with his combo and think it's beyond killer and can't wait to see it done. I'm not sure this is what you're looking for from your original post, or maybe I just read it wrong. Either way, good luck to you, I'll be watching for the build thread.
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No I'm not sold on anything.. I made this post to learn more about the 200.. and from my finding ther are quite a few that says it will but most say it wont hold up to any real hp. The 80 is something that was brought to my attention recently. I know there are alot of elect involved with it so I'm not sure about going that route either b/c of that fact alone. I was told that if I didn't use the elect part if the tranny then I might as well use a 727 and a GV.
 
USCG CHARGER said:
No I'm not sold on anything.. I made this post to learn more about the 200.. and from my finding ther are quite a few that says it will but most say it wont hold up to any real hp. The 80 is something that was brought to my attention recently. I know there are alot of elect involved with it so I'm not sure about going that route either b/c of that fact alone. I was told that if I didn't use the elect part if the tranny then I might as well use a 727 and a GV.
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I've done quite a few install on the 4l80. It is a stout trans. It's also a big unit. Doug's build shows how much trimming you have to do. Heck, in the Chevy builds, you are playing with some room issues. There's been some mention of lineage of these transmissions to their earlier GM counterparts, the T350, T400, and 200metric. Kinda take that in the same vein as saying man evolved from monkeys. Maybe so, but way different animals now.

I really like the GV unit, but I think there is a time and a place for that also. I've installed a few and have a friend running one, but am really concerned about the converter slipage in OD if you're running any sort of stall at all. It's never been explained to my satisfaction or comfort.

The 4l60/80 trannys are great units but do require a TCM. (Just used a FAST unit on one, I'm kinda loving it).

I'm putting a 700r4 in my old GMC, but it's not in the equation here.

The 200r4 from CPT doesn't use an electric hook up. It's lock up is hydralich in OD only. The only thing you need to do is make sure the TV is correct. From what I've seen, an A body install should be pretty simple. I'm waiting to see how Mopar To Ya's install goes.
 
Following is a post I made on a similar subject back in 2008. The only bashers that replied were purists that have to have their cars be 100% Mopar.
I haven't pulled the trigger on this yet due to a couple of economic setbacks along the way, but still thinking really hard about it when the funds are available.
Contact Art Carr directly at California Performance Transmissions if you have any questions, he's been building great transmissions for many years.
The pricing was for a full-manual-shift, reverse-pattern trans with about a 3500 rpm stall converter. No TV cable needed with the full-manual-shift setup.

"I've been thinking about a 200-4R behind a 360 magnum crate motor in a '69 Dart for the past week or so. Talked to several tranny companies about it and finally contacted Art Carr at California Performance Transmissions last week. He estimates total cost including converter and installation at about $3300. This does not include a new 8" longer driveshaft since the 200-4R is 8" shorter than a 727. It's also lighter and doesn't have as much HP loss through the transmission. The gear ratios are better than the 727 and it does not require trans tunnel surgery to fit. Art says he has a customer in PA with one behind a 406 stroker that runs 11.80s and still pulls down 25 mpg on the freeway.
Somebody tell me something bad about this setup......"
 
200R4 is roughly the size and weight of a turbo 350, takes the same rear yoke as the powerglide, turbo 350, and most all GM stick transmissions. That makes it fit better with fewer modifications to a recepient chassis than than the R700 or any of the T400 based transmissions. Earlier versions were non electronically controlled allowing a simple wiring hookup using only a couple of wires to control lockup and other functions.
In stock form it has a well deserved reputation for substandard internal parts made offshore. That said, the basic design is sound and there are aftermarket replacement parts from a number of venders available to address the issue of inadequate, inferior, and just plain lousy OEM parts, enabling the transmission to withstand power levels said to split a R700 case in half. Desirable valve bodies are from the turbo Buicks, Monte Carlo SS, or based on them.
Of all the rear wheel overdrive automatics out there, the 200R4 is probably the easiest to fit in our A body chassis, if you get your mind around non Mopar parts in a Mopar.
 
Revhendo said:
I've done quite a few install on the 4l80. It is a stout trans. It's also a big unit. Doug's build shows how much trimming you have to do. Heck, in the Chevy builds, you are playing with some room issues. There's been some mention of lineage of these transmissions to their earlier GM counterparts, the T350, T400, and 200metric.

The 4l60/80 trannys are great units but do require a TCM. (Just used a FAST unit on one, I'm kinda loving it).

QUOTE]

How hard is it to incorporate the TCM into my Carbed sb?
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USCG CHARGER said:
Revhendo said:
I've done quite a few install on the 4l80. It is a stout trans. It's also a big unit. Doug's build shows how much trimming you have to do. Heck, in the Chevy builds, you are playing with some room issues. There's been some mention of lineage of these transmissions to their earlier GM counterparts, the T350, T400, and 200metric.

The 4l60/80 trannys are great units but do require a TCM. (Just used a FAST unit on one, I'm kinda loving it).

QUOTE]

How hard is it to incorporate the TCM into my Carbed sb?
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It's not all that hard. You of course have your power and ground hook ups. (You got your stereo working, right?) There's a tach connection. A throttle position sensor (TPS) which you will have to hook up to the carb http://www.holley.com/HolleyNews/TPS Kit For Electric Choke Holley Carburetors.asp. And there is a brake light connection, which you can either wire in a relay or pick up a brake light switch for cruise control. That's it for the connections to the vehicle. The connections to the trans are pretty much plug in. The big pain with going the E version transmissions is the speedo. If you are using an aftermarket electric speedo, no problem. Want to keep the stock gauge, then you'll be talking to Shannon over at Redline.
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I owe someone an email about this, beyond that you folks have a nice day. Have fun buzzing down the freeway with your 1960's technology.....
 
1970Duster said:
Tell me why the quote, your comment (uscg) and your sig all work so great in that post?!?! Hahaha
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Fate... I put that sig on there yesterday and since then I've had several Pm's telling me it was offensive.. maybe i should delete it... I think it's funny.
 
USCG CHARGER said:
Fate... I put that sig on there yesterday and since then I've had several Pm's telling me it was offensive.. maybe i should delete it... I think it's funny.
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That sig is awesome!! If I wasn't attached to my sig, I would surely have yours :twisted:
 
1970Duster said:
That sig is awesome!! If I wasn't attached to my sig, I would surely have yours :twisted:
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They kinda go hand in hand! lol..

Ok so one question.. how can I get a throttle position sensor on a pro-systems carb that doesn't have elect choak?
 
I really like the GV unit, but I think there is a time and a place for that also. I've installed a few and have a friend running one, but am really concerned about the converter slipage in OD if you're running any sort of stall at all. It's never been explained to my satisfaction or comfort. Quote taken from Revhendo post.

I was running a 904 with a 9.5 dynamic 3500 stall behind a 575 hp 416 and had the GV unit. At 65 mph it would slip about 20% I figured and would heat the fluid up some. This virtually eliminated any help from the GV.
 
wireweld said:
I really like the GV unit, but I think there is a time and a place for that also. I've installed a few and have a friend running one, but am really concerned about the converter slipage in OD if you're running any sort of stall at all. It's never been explained to my satisfaction or comfort. Quote taken from Revhendo post.

I was running a 904 with a 9.5 dynamic 3500 stall behind a 575 hp 416 and had the GV unit. At 65 mph it would slip about 20% I figured and would heat the fluid up some. This virtually eliminated any help from the GV.
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yup that's what I'm worried about.. my converter needs to be in the 3500-4000 range to be effective. I was told the GV units make the verter slip like crazy.
 
wireweld said:
Won't the 200r4 create the same scenario? Or make it worse, due to the .67 od?
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Most OD trans have lock up converters. Now there is the issue that it takes some of the fluid from the clutch packs to lock the converter up. (So I have been lead to understand). I have not seen this as being a problem in the installs that I have done. I'm not a transmission guy, but I am assuming because the converter is only locked once the trans is in OD, you're not stressing the clutch packs as much (?).
 
Revhendo said:
Most OD trans have lock up converters. Now there is the issue that it takes some of the fluid from the clutch packs to lock the converter up. (So I have been lead to understand). I have not seen this as being a problem in the installs that I have done. I'm not a transmission guy, but I am assuming because the converter is only locked once the trans is in OD, you're not stressing the clutch packs as much (?).
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I have not seen or heard of a lockup convertor over 3000 for the 200r4. Given that then the only way to get 3500 to 4000 is with a non lockup. Then the same scenarion would be created, right?
 
USCG CHARGER said:
I'm wondering what's the main reason why I don't see anyone running this transmission behind their SB mopars.. Art Carr builds a kit for everything you need and you get the convenience of the OD.. It's very small and would be less loss on the HP. I'm seriously considering this option to put behind my high HP 416, with 4.10 gears.. This would give me the best of both worlds.. Drive it to the track (70 miles) change tires run it, and drive it back.

Is it's b/c it's a GM product or something else? I'm not going to have torsion bars as I have coil overs up front... I'd like it to require a little cutting as possible as the interior is already complete and I don;t fell like ripping the carpet, and sound deadener up.

Jason
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So is there any consensus about whether major trans tunnel surgery is required for this? That would be quite a bonus if it didn't require a bunch of cutting and welding and fabricating. I'm curious, anyone actually put one in an A-body????
 
All the reading I've been doing tells me that I should go with a 4l80. I know I will have to modify the tunnel, but I can run a forward valve body and get away from the elect, use the wilcap adapter plate, and have a lock up billet converter made with any stall up to 5200. Pictures I have show that with the 4l80 I'll need some major tunnel mods including possibly shifting my gas pedal over 1-2" b/c of the hump.. not really a big deal. the TC would lock up with a switch of a button, and the OD is .74 I believe. This set up would cost me less than having my 727 rebuilt $700, new TC $800, GV $2600.. the GM tranny with all the stuff I need is $3300
 
If your gonna cut the tunnel, I'd run a 6 speed auto. But that's just me.
 
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