273, or 318?

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RustyRatRod said:
I love it when people disagree with a post that was dripping with sarcasm.
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Notice I put a smiley in there. Many guys are brand loyal to there flavor, but in this respect, Mopar guys are hard core. Even suggesting using LS valves is a touchy subject. I believe running an engine of the make car you have is proper. Now when it comes to old imports that came with sewing machine engines, yup stuff a newer and bigger engine in. This is where the SBF has an advantage due to its diminuative external dimensions and weight. The SBC and SBM come close so it comes down to a persons brand favorite and what you have on hand or available.
 
I like to see the old street rods with correct brand engines. A model A with a Flattie or even a 289/302 is a good choice. Mopars get a Mopar engine. A friend built a 38 Dodge coupe and used a B body Cordoba as a donor car. Everything he could use including the power windows went in the old sedan.
 
RLF Cuda said:
As this is a mild street applicaiton and drivability will be a concern, building a 318, or even a 360, would be best. The 273 is nice and it is original, but it lacks torque and the small diameter bore has impacts on air flow into the cylinder. This limits HP to some extent. I built my 340 in 1974 with a 318 cam and a small manifold as the energy crisis then made fuel economy paramount. This combo with a 4-row radiator and electric cooling fan ran 14.50's @95 and got 25-26 MPG and was able to drive in Tucson in 117°F heat and not run over 190°F. Ideal combo that can be duplicated with a 318 or 360….
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Or you can build the 273, with an E-4 cam and a TQ, Q-Jet, or Street Demon carb and be there. No extra parts or cobbling. Bore size means little compared to head flow and induction. Even 273s two barrel pistons have an almost zero deck hight
 
toolmanmike said:
I like to see the old street rods with correct brand engines. A model A with a Flattie or even a 289/302 is a good choice. Mopars get a Mopar engine. A friend built a 38 Dodge coupe and used a B body Cordoba as a donor car. Everything he could use including the power windows went in the old sedan.
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As do I. I took friends to a Show and Shine. One was looking under the hoods and the number of SBC installed in Ford cars. The one guy called them transvestites. Dad bought a 36 Plymouth Coupe with a 350 SBC installed. Now it has shifted to LS Chev engines. I do understand why the SBC was used previously. Everyone said they were cheaper to build. That was one factor, but the big one for most guys was the rear distributor and sump. They fit easier in the old chassis.
For Fords that could be overcome simply when the original Bronco 289 oil pan and pickup tube were available. The introduction of the 5.0 SBF cured the cost differential there. Mopars are still a bit pricier, depending which one. 318's parts must be fairly inexpensive considering the millions built.
 
toolmanmike said:
I like to see the old street rods with correct brand engines. A model A with a Flattie or even a 289/302 is a good choice. Mopars get a Mopar engine. A friend built a 38 Dodge coupe and used a B body Cordoba as a donor car. Everything he could use including the power windows went in the old sedan.
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i'm with you there. exception to the rule is that hemi's can go in anything and european cars are fair game. i'm about to start on a volvo 142 that's getting a 2.3L eco boost motor for a client. should be fun!

i always like seeing stuff that would be "period correct", like a kid got a 10 yr old car and snapped in motor from something that would have been current then. say something like a 56 plaza with 273 commando/4spd or 413 wedge and an art carr bang box 727.
 
Dale Davies said:
318's parts must be fairly inexpensive considering the millions built.
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straight from summit:
performer RPM air gap: SBC- $345 SBM- $460
thumpr cam kit: SBC- $500 SBM- $620

and note, that price differential is just for run of the mill stuff. mopars are just more expensive across the board
 
junkyardhero said:
i'm with you there. exception to the rule is that hemi's can go in anything and european cars are fair game. i'm about to start on a volvo 142 that's getting a 2.3L eco boost motor for a client. should be fun!

i always like seeing stuff that would be "period correct", like a kid got a 10 yr old car and snapped in motor from something that would have been current then. say something like a 56 plaza with 273 commando/4spd or 413 wedge and an art carr bang box 727.
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For the 142, I would be looking at a Volvo 5 cyl turbo. I am not impressed with the eco boost reliability. Manufacturers casting turbo exhaust into the head. I believe it leaves too much heat in the head leading to head gasket and cracking issues. I read Stellantis is working on casting the turbine housing into the head. I can read screwup coming.
Another good fit for the 140 series and 240 series Volvos is the SBF especially with aluminium heads.
 
junkyardhero said:
straight from summit:
performer RPM air gap: SBC- $345 SBM- $460
thumpr cam kit: SBC- $500 SBM- $620

and note, that price differential is just for run of the mill stuff. mopars are just more expensive across the board
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Yes. Now the basic pistons, rings, bearings and gaskets should be reasonable, however a bit more expensive. The aftermarket kills the Mopar fans, volume rules there.
 
Dale Davies said:
Then there is the other end of the spectrum, people that see some rust as not repairable. I know a guy that sold the interior out of a Firebird Turbo coupe because of a bit of rust. Then he saw what someone else was restoring, way worse. When I asked if hhe was going to do the body work and get a new interior, I got a big truck you. :) Same guy had a 1940 Olds Coupe and a tree fell on it. Cut it up and hauled it to the scrap dealer. Only about 10,000 Olds coupes were built in '40 which would be a rare car today. I talked to another guy that knew the car and damage and he said it was pretty bad, but I know his thoughts on bad also. If a person knows how to work metal it could be jacked and hammered into shape. Check into what Fitzees Fabrications does on his videos.
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The reason why I'm staying away from cars with heavy rust is because I can't weld / do body work and I can't afford to have it done either
 
Dale Davies said:
For the 142, I would be looking at a Volvo 5 cyl turbo. I am not impressed with the eco boost reliability. Manufacturers casting turbo exhaust into the head. I believe it leaves too much heat in the head leading to head gasket and cracking issues. I read Stellantis is working on casting the turbine housing into the head. I can read screwup coming.
Another good fit for the 140 series and 240 series Volvos is the SBF especially with aluminium heads.
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he was making the call on it, evidently he got a totalled out mustang on the cheap so that's all going in.

not my first choice, but he's the one with the money.

i told him a coyote motor would be tons of fun, but was adamant about it not being a V8 swap. he has a 60's jag for that anyway.
 
Dan the man said:
The reason why I'm staying away from cars with heavy rust is because I can't weld / do body work and I can't afford to have it done either
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I understand. Those can be learned skills. Car clubs have people with all kinds of talents and many will share their knowledge and help out. The less rust to start is much easier to deal with. Try watching Fitzees Fabrications. He breaks tasks down to make them simple with basic tools and some patience.
 
Dale Davies said:
Yes. Now the basic pistons, rings, bearings and gaskets should be reasonable, however a bit more expensive. The aftermarket kills the Mopar fans, volume rules there.
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not pistons, that's for sure. sealed power flat tops? 50 bux more for cast even! aftermarket or forged? easily X3
 
junkyardhero said:
he was making the call on it, evidently he got a totalled out mustang on the cheap so that's all going in.

not my first choice, but he's the one with the money.

i told him a coyote motor would be tons of fun, but was adamant about it not being a V8 swap. he has a 60's jag for that anyway.
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Gotcha. Run whatcha got and a cheap parts car works. But those ecoboosts worry crap out of me from stuff you see online. Blocks crack and dump coolant into the cylinders.
 
junkyardhero said:
not pistons, that's for sure. sealed power flat tops? 50 bux more for cast even! aftermarket or forged? easily X3
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Partly why I keep to the General and Ford. Mind you, I am.keeping an eye on a Challenger sitting in the bush. Belongs to the guys brother in law. Some stuff like the dash not original and the engine. But if a person wants a good looking car to enjoy driving, what the heck.
One project in the pipeline is a '40 Chev Coupe. I want to put a pressure lube 235 crank in and bore it a bit. Fill, port and mill the head. Get new con rods and pistons for it. Maybe run three SU or Stromberg CD carbs with a bit snotty cam. Run a T5 transmission. That will run into some pricey parts on an 80 year old water heater stovebolt.
 
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Dale Davies said:
Notice I put a smiley in there. Many guys are brand loyal to there flavor, but in this respect, Mopar guys are hard core. Even suggesting using LS valves is a touchy subject. I believe running an engine of the make car you have is proper. Now when it comes to old imports that came with sewing machine engines, yup stuff a newer and bigger engine in. This is where the SBF has an advantage due to its diminuative external dimensions and weight. The SBC and SBM come close so it comes down to a persons brand favorite and what you have on hand or available.
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Thats because they are NOT LS valves or magnum valves.

They are VALVES. They have no idea what size they are or what they fit.

3/8 stem valves are stupid. Even 11/32 stems are quickly becoming obsolete.

Of course, in the upside down, *** backwards dumbed down world we live in, we will get stuck with metric stems. All because part of the world needs math dumbed down for them.

A 5/16 stem should be the standard in ANY performance build.

Its not 1962 any more. That’s why the Hemi got 5/16 valves.
 
68 318 230hp, 273 190hp both two barrel. 45 cubic inch difference.
273 4 barrel a little different animal.
The gains of installing an overdrive transmission would be less with a 273 as the lack of torque would kill it.
318 should take the win in every way.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Thats because they are NOT LS valves or magnum valves.

They are VALVES. They have no idea what size they are or what they fit.

3/8 stem valves are stupid. Even 11/32 stems are quickly becoming obsolete.

Of course, in the upside down, *** backwards dumbed down world we live in, we will get stuck with metric stems. All because part of the world needs math dumbed down for them.

A 5/16 stem should be the standard in ANY performance build.

Its not 1962 any more. That’s why the Hemi got 5/16 valves.
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I refer to the valves as LS or Magnum as the OEM source. I am using the Melling 5.3 LS valves in my Ford 289.
As to stem diameter, the difference between 5/16" and 8mm is only about 0.002". A 5/16" ID guide can be installed and the option to run 5/16" or 8mm stems is open. All that needs to be done is hone the guides to proper clearance.
I think a number of 4 valve engines are running 5mm valve stems.
 
DC Dart said:
68 318 230hp, 273 190hp both two barrel. 45 cubic inch difference.
273 4 barrel a little different animal.
The gains of installing an overdrive transmission would be less with a 273 as the lack of torque would kill it.
318 should take the win in every way.
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I have a question. Could a 360 LA crankshaft be used in a 273 to stroke it. With a .030 overbore you end up with 300.5 CID. This is just over 0.25" stroke increase. The throw length increase is just over 0.125" so clearance should not be a big issue. This would help in the torque department and compression. Now special pistons with the correct compression height would need to be ordered. Cam selection may need to be looked at. Possibly a 6 pack intake for the looks. A 6 pack running on the primary carb could get excellent fuel economy. For more stealth, a RPM Airgap manifold painted engine color and an Edelbrock AVS2 650 carb would work. You could also use a 340 intake and carb that only the purists would notice as not original.
 
Dale Davies said:
I have a question. Could a 360 LA crankshaft be used in a 273 to stroke it. With a .030 overbore you end up with 300.5 CID. This is just over 0.25" stroke increase. The throw length increase is just over 0.125" so clearance should not be a big issue. This would help in the torque department and compression. Now special pistons with the correct compression height would need to be ordered. Cam selection may need to be looked at. Possibly a 6 pack intake for the looks. A 6 pack running on the primary carb could get excellent fuel economy. For more stealth, a RPM Airgap manifold painted engine color and an Edelbrock AVS2 650 carb would work. You could also use a 340 intake and carb that only the purists would notice as not original.
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The 360 crank has larger bearing surfaces. Could it be done? Sure. Does it make sense? Not really. Having pistons made for a stroker would also be an issue.
 
A 4" stroke standard bore 273 would be a 330. You might as well stroke a 318 to 390, a 340 to 415, or a 360 to 408. There are kits/parts already made for those combinations.
 
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