You keep askin all the questions you want. I'm just sayin we can't make any decisions for you. That's all you. lol
273 swap to 318/ build, cost, potential, daily driver
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Michael Harrington
Well-Known Member
I failed to mention that a Magnum engine will require an electric fuel pump as it does not have the components to drive a mechanical fuel pump. This is a dealbreaker with some. A Magnum engine will be a little more work such as outfitting it with the LA timing cover so you can run the LA V belt and pulleys. 273,318, 340 and 360 (All LA) exh manifolds will work on the Magnum heads. The path of least resistance-closest to plug and play for you would be another LA engine. If you could see and hear a used one run before you buy- that would be easiest and cheapest. Clean it maybe do valve cover gaskets and the oil pan if its shows signs of leakage. Paint it up nice and beautiful and install. A member here may be within driving distance and have a good healthy used engine for sale.
I’m not against an electric fuel pump, might I ask though why that would be a dealbreaker for some? Less authentic? Sacrilege to the principal of keeping it classic? Also, if going with a magnum 318, could I use my 273 timing cover or other existing components that I have of the 273? But again, path of least resistance you mentioned finding another LA, what years might be ideal in an LA 318? Thanks!
I understand N.D. countryside is not highly populated!but maybe you are in a city. Try to meet some local Mopar guys and put the word out you are in search of a "fill in the blank" good running stock Mopar engine. Network!!!! It has worked for decades in our hobby. That is the path of less $$$. Find (make) a friend with a car he can take you for a ride in and see if it's drivetrain is something you want.
lemondana
BlackDart
The deal breaker for me is the expensive intake manifold needed for the Magnum engines. Your car uses a complex kickdown system that would have to be addressed. If the car is a factory air car-some of the compressor mounting points won't be there on that new intake. The electric fuel pump, the cracked heads. I'd say, watch for a roller cam 86-91 318. The Fifth Avenues were generally well taken care of. Might be able to find a good one? I have to much LA stuff to switch over.
Your timing is impeccable! Through networking a friend of mine just found on FBMP a 1997 dodge 5.2 magnum 4 hours away from me for $100. 230k miles, needs complete rebuild. Compared to my already questionable 273… would THIS 97 5.2 be a healthy candidate in having the machine shop do a stock build on. Convert from efi to carburetor with electric fuel pump. Address any transmission or rear end issues and continue with the build?
I feel that maybe I haven’t dug deep enough or researched enough to find someone’s previous build dos-donts on this exact setup. Maybe I’m missing the article and or post. But for that drive and $100 for a magnum 318 seems like a good starting point??? Not in a rush, I don’t need THIS engine RIGHT NOW and I can continue to look for another, possibly better condition or more information, motor. Thanks!
In the end, for what you want, the 273 would be the best in my opinion. There are a lot of different parts and adjustments to be made with any other engines, if all you need is a cam and crankshaft (273 or 318). Head gaskets are nothing, been using small block ( 273, 318, 340, 360) Fel-Pro .040 head gaskets since the 70's. Everything else being the same. Fix the trans and the small 7 1/4 rear should be fine with the 273. Every engine has plus and minus points. A 273 has closed chamber heads, 8.8:1 compression, bushed rods, and a solid cam valvetrain. Use the original exhaust manifolds, they will work with 273, 318 or magnum ports. A 273 in good condition will have plenty of power in an 65 Barracuda. I ran a 273 from mild to wild for 20+ years and 250,000 miles. You can always upgrade later down the road. All that being said, take some time and see what is available.
cudamark
Well-Known Member
First, you need to decide if you're going to keep that one year only transmission. If yes, it will need to be rebuilt.....and maybe beefed up a bit if you decide to add horsepower over the 180 the stock engine had that year. If you're ok using a later transmission, you can pretty much forget using the stock shifter assembly. That is either going to mean an aftermarket floor shifter, or, a '66 only A-body setup. That would mean a complete column shift column and all the linkage, or, a complete floor shifter, floor brackets that need to be welded in, console, and also all the floor shift linkage. If you're going to keep the stock trans and shifter, I would just find another 273 or early 318 to build. The advantage of the 273 is that all your existing engine parts will fit it, and it's compatible with your trans without any mods. The 318 will need the crank bushing for the stock converter, but otherwise will accept all your 273 parts also. You could also use the later and easier to get intakes on a 318 or '66-9 273. You get into 340's, 360's, and magnum stuff and you're also looking at oil pan issues, and modifying motor mount brackets to fit, along with exhaust and other nits. Look around and see what engines and transmissions are available, the cost of trans and engine rebuilding and see what fits you budget and final desired results.
cudamark
Well-Known Member
I'll add that since you're going to be building an engine, and I assume you will probably be putting in new pistons, I would worry too much about the head gasket bore size. Just get with your machine shop on how much compression you want, and get pistons that accomplish that given the head combustion size and head gasket to be used. It doesn't take much to CC the chambers to get some numbers to work with. Since you're not trying to wring out every scrap of horsepower, it's really a non issue for a street cruiser.
First off I would forget about the 273 rebuild other than swapping parts onto a 318 if you choose that route as opposed to a magnum. Buy a rebuilt engine built by a reputable re-manufacturer. You can find one on eBay for magnums or blueprint engines on this website or from your local parts store WITH A WARRANTY. You will have enough to do with cleaning up your engine bay, installing and getting everything hooked up. Don’t skimp on compression as these projects SNOWBALL and somewhere down the road you may want more power. Get as much as your rebuilder recommends.
And just get it back on the road asap. Your always going to have minor regrets, wish I would have done this or that, it’s part of the learning curve of your first hobby car. After doing 4-5 cars you’ll have the experience to clearly see an end game from the start. It’s just like everything in life, it takes experience and the best way is to learn by doing, not following folks that can’t do it for you.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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factory stock, low-compression LA360-2V short block, with your 318/273 top end, your 904 trans(rebuilt), your convertor(rebalanced) any rear gears with a limited slip, and 318/273 cam
With the closed chamber heads, you compression ratio will skim 9/1.
The extra cubes will pump up the bottom-end to ludicrous.
The small heads will run out at say 4500, but, put some valve springs on her to rev to 5000 which with 2.76 gears, and 25.5 tall tires, would get you 50 mph@10% slip.
AFTER you get that tuned, put a few hundred miles on her. Then if you still want a lumpy cam, well then get one of those poser cams, with all that .008 duration, but modest 050, and a convertor in the 2400 to 2800 range. Just be advised that the smallest one will be bigger than you need.
But they idle nice.
Fyi.
I'm about 35 miles North of Valhalla
With the closed chamber heads, you compression ratio will skim 9/1.
The extra cubes will pump up the bottom-end to ludicrous.
The small heads will run out at say 4500, but, put some valve springs on her to rev to 5000 which with 2.76 gears, and 25.5 tall tires, would get you 50 mph@10% slip.
AFTER you get that tuned, put a few hundred miles on her. Then if you still want a lumpy cam, well then get one of those poser cams, with all that .008 duration, but modest 050, and a convertor in the 2400 to 2800 range. Just be advised that the smallest one will be bigger than you need.
But they idle nice.
Fyi.
I'm about 35 miles North of Valhalla
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Here are the pictures I was trying to add, it wouldnt let me attach them in our North Dakota thread. That’s a GENERAL costs list from a local machine shop for engine/head work and a general parts needed list, I didn’t want to drop any names as not to disrespect anyone, and pics of the crank as is when removed and after a little in garage cleanup.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
you can probably add 350 to the machine work bill on the heads for new hardened exhaust seats, and probably a guide or three, and unforseen things and stuffs. a new crank isn't all that difficult to source, so the cost of that (free~$150) + whatever they need to do on that (hopefully just a polish). then cough up $700(?) for pistons and rings, plus a bore and hone at i'd guess another $400 unless you can get away with just a hone and rings. if the rods need resized? there's another $200.
double the price on the waterpump and timing chain to get actual decent parts that will last.
double the price on the waterpump and timing chain to get actual decent parts that will last.
Good advice I appreciate the input. I’m hopeful for a hone and rings, after its rebuild in 85 it was not driven much thereafter. Still clean clear crosshatch in the cylinders. So aiming to use my pistons and avoid any unnecessary machine work. I’ll call a few shops and see about having the crank polished. And yes good point in higher quality parts for water pump and timing set. (There was very LIGHT surface rust in some of the cylinders, I know rust is rust, it washed right out with some PB and a maybe a minute of cleanup with a scotch pad)
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
that doesn't look too bad, you could probably get away with a quick stone hone and some rings. but if you're thinking about reusing that crank? that's gonna need cut for sure. i'd be suspect of anybody that said it'd polish out.
anyway, what's the deal with the heads? are they the early ones that have the specific angle of the dangle on the intake bolts or are they later ones that'll take all the intake manifolds? and are they in decent nick? cuz you can spend a mint on heads and wind up right back where you started.
part of doing this is making sure that the good money only spends once!
anyway, what's the deal with the heads? are they the early ones that have the specific angle of the dangle on the intake bolts or are they later ones that'll take all the intake manifolds? and are they in decent nick? cuz you can spend a mint on heads and wind up right back where you started.
part of doing this is making sure that the good money only spends once!
Fairly sure the heads are early, angled bolt holes… block cast is 65… I do not know they’re exact condition I haven’t heard from the machine shop on them just yet. Few pics below. Again this was my dads everyday driver and was only parked because the trans reverse went out. Rebuilt in 85 and parked in 89. I can only hope for the crank, if it’s toast then I’ll start networking in finding one.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
verify verify verify.
while the early heads may be entirely serviceable, the problem is that you've hemmed yourself into only having a select, tiny, limited amount of choices for an intake manifold-- the 2bbl you have, a factory 4bbl if you can find one, or if you want to open your wallet wide: an edelbrock, offy or i think there may be a weiand option. and even then, they're also tough to find and expensive.
swapping heads gives you a plethora of intake options, yes even better 2bbl options! and the added benefit of getting (potentially) hardened exhaust seats and upgraded valve guides and seals.
remember that part of the issue with asking people what they would do in your situation is that they have entirely different skill sets, parts availability, ideas of what levels of performance, budget, what meets their criteria for "good enough", and so on and so forth.
like, i know what *I* would do here, but what i have sitting on my shop floor and shelves and what's available to me and what the finished product would be may be entirely different from your idea.
somebody up thread said that you need to decide, and i think that's great advice. you need to decide what your destination is, and then we can help you make a map to get there.
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
318LA engines should be plentiful, but if you have to source an engine, I would look for a 360. Same external dimensions and weight.
The 5.2 and 5.9 Magnum engines were made for years and installed in trucks. The main disadvantage to the Magnums is Ma Mopar was reducing weight and got a little carried away in the heads. If you chose a Magnum, consider aluminium heads.
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
The crank register is a small problem. If one can not be purchased, a local machine shop can build one relatively inexpensively.
If you go to cars and coffee cruises, you should be able to become friends with other people with the talents you do not have that can coach you.
If you look at the Magnum engines, you may find one with transmission running in a wrecked vehicle. Good probability it will be a truck. Consider cutting the trans tunnel out of that truck to clear the OD trans. Then you can cut the tunnel out of the Barracuda and weld the truck one in. Yup, needs the carpet to be replaced at least in the front. An upholstry person can match the carpet and get it to fit. Find the right donor and the carpet may be a close enough match.
A lot of the Magnums with 200,000 miles still run great and do not burn oil. Get the ECM and wiring with the engine.
At this point he is going with the 273, so no mods or special parts required.
Check out magnumswap.com
Sluggo2k1
New Member
273 is a good engine. Only difficulty is the early ones have a different intake manifold so say a 69 aluminum intake will not work on it. Limited choices for the early LA.
Just found this. Any engine that does not run is a core to me. If you can get any kind of compression test on any core, the better. A trip to machine shop costs $ but there you can find the answers! Everything costys $$$!
You could make that trip for that truck., keep what you want, part whats what and haul the carcass off off scrape!
Everything generally is about purpose, availability, and costs! Like I said, these days, everything costs some $$, some things just cost more $$.
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