318 Build

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rosco426

rosco426

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Hi Guys,

I posted years back about a 360 build I was going to do but for various reason didn't happen but I'm almost at the stage where I'm ready to rebuild my original 318.

I've already purchased a majority of the parts but still need, pistons, cam/lifters and rockers to name the main parts. I'm also thinking of buying a torque plate as the engine guy who will do some work doesn't have one to suit a chrysler small block.

Where is the best place to buy a torque plate from? Don't seem to have much luck looking online.

I'm aiming for 360-400hp mark, but in reality just want something with a nice lump that will go hard if I jump on the gas. I bought heads years ago from Brian at IMM Engines (RHS heads 2.02/1.6, got an Air Gap, Demon 650 D/P so just wondering what you guys would recommend cam wise? I plan on running 3.23 gears with my 904 on standard 14" rims.

Appreciate any and all the advice in advance.

Thanks guy,

Rosco.
 
What size tires are planned on those 14 inch rims?
Are the heads stock or ported? Can you publish the flow rates?
Do you plan on a new torque converter, or is the stock one go by to be reused?
My our answers have a play in camshaft selection.
 
Hey rosco what's this going in, the charger?

When I was looking at the IMM RHS heads the flow figures quoted were 257cfm @500 and 261@600 from what I recall.

The gears and converter will have an impact on what cam you will be able to run especially if you want to run the std 904 converter.

Are you planning to keep it stock stroke 318 or 390 stroker? There are a few pistons you can use in a stock stroke, the kb167 hyper or there is a wiseco forged, both seem to give roughly 9.5:1 compression with a 63cc chamber head. There are a few more higher comp options in the stroker pistons.

What type if cam do you want to run in it, solid or hydraulic?

If you want to keep the standard converter and gears and run it as a std stroke 318 I think a nice hydraulic roller with smaller duration and higher lift than an equivalent duration flat tappet would work well with these heads. This will add to the cost of the build though over a flat tappet.
 
rumblefish360 said:
What size tires are planned on those 14 inch rims?
Are the heads stock or ported? Can you publish the flow rates?
Do you plan on a new torque converter, or is the stock one go by to be reused?
My our answers have a play in camshaft selection.
Click to expand...

Same tyres as currently, 207/70/14.
The heads have had some work done but don't have the figures on me. From memory when I had someone flow them here they said they were good till @500 and died a little because of the springs.
I'll be buying a new converter although I don't want anything much bigger than 2500.


Yeah it'll be going in the charger.
Like I just mentioned, I'll be getting another converter but still prefer 3.23 over going 3.5's in the rear.
Yeah will be going stock stroke and the KB167's look like the piston I'm going to get.
I'll probably stick to a hydraulic flat tappet.


Couple of the cams I'm looking at are Comp Cams Thumper 279TH7 or the XE274H. Has anyone here used one of these?
 
Where is the best place to buy a torque plate from? Don't seem to have much luck looking online.
Check B.H.J. Industries,that simple on torque plates. Call Brian at IMM, he ported the damn heads.Why guess?
 
It wasn't the spring that have the head giving up, it's the port. The springs control the valves. If there weak and give up controlling the valves before the cams rpm band is finished, there shot and need replacing.

I think ethier of those cams are one step to large. Ex; the XE274 should be the XE268 at max.
 
I agree the 268h would be better suited to the 3.23 gears and a 2500 rpm converter. I do like a solid cam personally, probably from playing with vc valiants and 273's over the years and don't mind the occasional adjustment, find they are just more reliable and rev very cleanly and that would really suit the short stroke 318.

Talk to TCE or dominator about the converter and get them to build one for you, can get something that isn't really loose and still flashes to a decent stall speed when you thump it, well worth the extra cost over an off he shelf item or cheaper brand.
 
I have a xe268 in my 360, I would venture to say that 3.23 gears are not quite enough, 3.55s would be the best. Mind you I haven't changed out my 2.76 gears yet, but it sucks off the line, going with 3.91 gears. Really like that cam though, sounds nice and makes good power, a bit noisy though (valvetrain wise), I definitely freaked out about it initially thinking something was wrong, but thats just what it sounds like.
 
Where is the best place to buy a torque plate from?
Click to expand...

I got mine from Dan @ Performance Only on Moparts. Dan has since past away but somone may have taken over production.

The money invested in a torque plate may be better spent else where on your build. Maybe spend the money on a custom cam to suit your combo.

Hysteric
 
hi a torque plate is to get bores round and straight when boring and honing. they insure the rings will seal around the bore at WOT. usually worth about 25 HP. also l t rings help power output. you have to have a solid short block to make good power!!! just food for thought.
 
So.... The big question is, "Where can I get a small block hone plate?"
Umm, make that a big block one as well.
 
BHJ makes honing plates. best ones. they are cast iron same as a cylinder heads. also make aluminum hone plates.
 
Thanks for the advice and help guys.

Looks like I'm going to go with the XE268 with Hughes 1.6 Rockers, as from what I've read up on here, they are best to use with the RHS heads.

Would standard rods hold up for a build like this?
 
Rosco for the price on getting your factory ones resized and new rod bolts get a set of scat i beams,with the 7/16 ARP bolts fitted from Summit! stronger and lighter rod !
 
OK guys, ready to buy everything and decided to get new rods while I'm at it.

I'm considering going to 3.55 diff gears and I'll wait till everything is built till I decide on the stall speed but it'll be between 22-2500rpm.

What sort of power do you guys think I'd be looking at making with the xe268h?

Thanks for advice in advance.
 
I admire you wanting to use a torque plate and get it dead right. That's commendable. But honestly, IMO, you don't need the extra expense at that power level. How many million of engines came through the factories with power levels in that range and ran just fine? The factories never used torque plates. JMO of course.
 
I won't be building the motor, I'll be giving the torque plate to the engine builder as he doesnt have a small block chrysler one. He's dropping the price since I am giving him this and in the future I'll have at least another small block to build so it's beneficially for me too.

I keep looking at using the XE274H comp cams but for now the XE268 seems perfect and would prefer to hold out to for a while and maybe replace it down the track with a hydraulic roller but for the moment I'd rather spend the money elsewhere on the car.

I'm hopefully that this combo will make around the 370-390fwhp. I hope that's not too ambitious.

Here is my shopping list, just need to buy rockers from Hughes and I will probably organise a converter to get build down here.
 

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One more question guys as I know stuff all compared to you guys about this stuff but how much do you think that Camquest has overestimated the power I should expect. From the reading up I don't think I would make 400hp or over as this suggest.
 

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rosco426 said:
Same tyres as currently, 207/70/14.

Couple of the cams I'm looking at are Comp Cams Thumper 279TH7 or the XE274H. Has anyone here used one of these?
Click to expand...

I've used the Thumpr cam in my 318, made nice power and a pretty flat torque curve which is good for a street car. It needed a high stall with 3.23 gears (a 2200 would be fine)

Build overview and dyno results here. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=223698
 
Just ordered myself the XE268H frosty so I'll save the Thumpr Cam maybe for next motor.

Nice build with the VC, cool looking car.

Judging by your numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if I make 380hp.
 
Thanks mate, I appreciate it =)

Those RHS heads flow really nice numbers, much better than my Iron factory units and Brian has a reputation for doing very high quality work. I'd say you're probably right on the money with that 380hp estimate as long as you check your compression for the desired ratio properly before final assembly. I know that seems obvious but it's amazing how many people don't bother and instead blindly trust the piston manufacturer's estimate.

Another thing with KB hyper eutectic pistons is that the person who gaps the rings absolutely MUST MUST MUST follow the instructions/formula provided for calculating ring gap, most engine builders know off the top of their head roughly how much ring gap is usually needed and it's easy for them to assume "pistons are pistons" but these aren't any ordinary set of cast pistons. they need much bigger tolerances coz of their high silicone content. Or at least that's the theory I've heard of most often.

When I ran the kb hypers I bought a set of non-file-fit (already gapped out of the box) rings and filed them the rest of the way to meet the required spec. they were miles too small.

Love to see a 318 get some love, Be sure to keep us updated and best of luck!
 
The top ring land/ring on the K-B's is located much closer to the piston deck than on other pistons including Hypereutetics. It "sees" higher heat during the combustion process so it needs more gap due to higher expansion.
Bob
 
No chance I'll be putting the motor together but I'll definitely let the engine builder know incase he hasn't dealt with the KB pistons.

I have HV melling oil pump but I've read that they aren't required and best to use a standard one. Would I be better off with a standard oil pump and get away with using a stock sump?

Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I'll get some time to drop the front end and motor out and slowly get started.
 
Unless you have opened up or made additions to your oiling galleries I would strongly recommend a standard NEW oil pump, a high volume unit will have the bypass valve open pretty much all the time.

Even with the bypass open, pressure can increase and the extra pumping force required can be stressful on the oil pump driveshaft from the cam, if it fails it's all over red rover and time for a rebuild!

It's always good policy to open up the oil pump and check for faults such as poor machining or swarf which can cause an oil pump to be faulty or become blocked/restricted. You just never know!
 
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