318 build

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AJ/FormS said:
Well I wasn't gonna put my 2 cents into this hodge-podge, but since it's gone off the rails anyway; here goes.
Start a new thread cuz there is almost nothing in this thread worthy of being called good advise; and nobody actually tried to answer your question, with the exception of the one guy everybody likes to pick on.
I've given my opinion on a few 318 builds, and also got bashed, so no sense in me going thru that again.
Ryan, there are quite a few smart guys on this forum, smarter and more experienced than me. But there is also a preponderance of testosterone here, and a lotta herd-mentality.
Lemmee say this, which is based on my 50 plus years of experience;
1) the smallest difference between your 318 and a 340, is the bore size.
2) the biggest difference between them is the cylinder pressure.
3) and the 340 cam was a good cam in it's day, now 50 years ago.
4) with a manual trans, your engine is as good as married to the driveshaft, which is married to the rear gears. What you do to your engine has to be married to what the wheels are doing. If you miss the mark, you will not be happy.
5) if you install the big port heads, do it for a good reason.
6) never pick the cam first, unless your pockets are deep enough to make all the changes that may be required to run that cam. and
for crying out loud, when you refer to a cam, do so by it's 050 specs and include the LSA. From those numbers, we can generate everything we need to know about how it's gonna run. I think it's not fair that I have to go looking for those specs, knowing only a lift, and none of the smart guys can give good advise until the cam specs are known.
7) as others have asked, state what you expect out of your engine. For example, saying that your car has 3.23s and you want to keep them, is gonna throw out about 80 percent of the street cams available. and for a manual-trans 318, probably more.
8) state what fuel you are willing to pay for. Each octane gas has a pressure ceiling, beyond which the engine can get into trouble real quick. You can run less pressure than that ceiling, that's ok, but not more. and each octane build then, for optimum performance, is a different build.
And until your exact Compression ratio has been calculated, and your quench has been established, nobody can give you good advice, unless they include all the requirements that apply to that advice.
For example, if your pistons are .057 in the hole and your heads have 72cc combustion chambers , there's gonna be hundreds of dollars need to be spent to run a stock 340 cam, and to not have a dog every time your rpm falls below 3000 rpm.
So you know, one guy can tell you his 284cammed 318 with 340 heads was a giant killer, because from 4500 to 6000, and it was.
And another can tell you that his 340 headed and 340cammed, 318 was a dog with 3.23s, and it was.
And I can tell you that a first gen 340 , with 318heads, a 318 cam, and 2.94s with a bit of stall was a killer combo, and it was.
9) Nobody wants to admit that every good combo is very highly tied to cylinder pressure. Two identical engines, other than one cranks 130 and the other cranks 185, these are night and day different engines. I'm not kidding. Not only is the one close to twice as powerful, absolute; but the midrange is killer fun, and from idle to 3000, you would never know that it was just the same basic engine as the 130psi example.
Pressure makes heat. Heat makes torque. Torque times rpm makes Power.
The more pressure you have, when you need it, the more fun your engine/combo will be. and when it never comes, Ryan is a sad sad guy.
10) with a manual trans, it's very easy to make a low-pressure doggy streeter, that can only be band-aided by gears and/or slipping the clutch. Don't be a statistic.
11) now;
I did not tell you what heads to run.
I did not tell you what cam to run.
I did not tell you what cylinder pressure to run.
I did not in any way answer any of your questions.
Decide for yourself what good advice is.
Now, go read what @Dan the man said.
Click to expand...
IMG_0993.jpeg
 
out of everything, all the mental masturbation, the equations, the blathering on about what worked back in dickety-doo when a 12-er a schafer was $5 and classy girls didn't have snake tattoos below the knee-- the one thing that got me was worrying about the head bolts bottoming out from decking the heads.

man. tell me you haven't built an engine without telling me you haven't built an engine. i don't know, maybe it's just a minivan thing but jeeze-louise.
 
junkyardhero said:
out of everything, all the mental masturbation, the equations, the blathering on about what worked back in dickety-doo when a 12-er a schafer was $5 and classy girls didn't have snake tattoos below the knee-- the one thing that got me was worrying about the head bolts bottoming out from decking the heads.

man. tell me you haven't built an engine without telling me you haven't built an engine. i don't know, maybe it's just a minivan thing but jeeze-louise.
Click to expand...
It was a question pretty much about the cylinder head bolts and I bet that no one thought it. But, if you think about it for a minute, if the deck height has been changed let's say by 0.012" and the heads have been milled 0.040" and then a head gasket is used that's 0.021" instead of the 0.028" that's a total of 0.059" which is almost a 1/16" of a inch. So you're saying that wouldn't affect the final torque spec of the cylinder head bolts that go in a blind hole? I disagree
 
ryan1964 said:
Ok so I'm build a 318 stock bore flat top pistons new bottom end either a 454 lift cam or a 480 lift summit grind 4 speed is putting 360 J heads on it going to help it or hurt it
Click to expand...
What is the purpose of your build? Cruiser, street, street and strip? It’s more helpful to provide the cams duration at 0.050 " and the LSA. I know that the majority of the guys on here are going to highly recommend the 360 heads, but without knowing more information about your set up none of us can really provide you with good suggestions. If you're gonna just be using it as a daily driver / Cruiser then I think that using your stock 318 heads is the best way to go, you can bowl work and a comp valve job, have a 30* x0.070" back cut done to the valve's. Recurve the distributor is good idea. A true dual exhaust system, manifold will be fine too
 
Dan the man said:
It was a question pretty much about the cylinder head bolts and I bet that no one thought it. But, if you think about it for a minute, if the deck height has been changed let's say by 0.012" and the heads have been milled 0.040" and then a head gasket is used that's 0.021" instead of the 0.028" that's a total of 0.059" which is almost a 1/16" of a inch. So you're saying that wouldn't affect the final torque spec of the cylinder head bolts that go in a blind hole? I disagree
Click to expand...
oh, i'm sure plenty have thought about it and then promptly disregarded the notion-- on a stock build.

hahaha .021 gaskets on a 318. yeah man, if you're using those you're wayyyy out of your league.
 
junkyardhero said:
oh, i'm sure plenty have thought about it and then promptly disregarded the notion-- on a stock build.

hahaha .021 gaskets on a 318. yeah man, if you're using those you're wayyyy out of your league.
Click to expand...
Not me,but some have. Stock build has nothing to do with the head bolts Not being able to be torque correctly. I'm thinking that I've brought up something that you guys have not really thought about before
 
Dan the man said:
Not me,but some have. Stock build has nothing to do with the head bolts Not being able to be torque correctly. I'm thinking that I've brought up something that you guys have not really thought about before
Click to expand...
so your point being is that you think you've stumbled onto something that nobody in the history of building these motors has considered? and now you think that somehow equates to you having a "one up" on others?

fine. fair enough.

however... the point remains that you've never done it. so you don't know. all you have is a hypothetical. which... well, isn't all that hypothetical because nobody has encountered this problem. the most likely scenario is because if you're decking the block that much, cutting the heads to that degree and running that thin of a headgasket you're build a gat dang race motor and *gasp* you're using studs. imagine that.

i just put the heads on my 318, and if i didn't just pay $50 for a head gasket and intake gaskets and it wasn't a pain in all nine assholes to pull one off in the car, i'd do it just to get the measurement and show you how much room there is left down there.

i love how you get wrapped up in a bunch of hypothetical inconsequential nonsense on a motor that you're never gonna build for a car that you don't even own.

don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff, danimal.
 
Dan the man said:
I know that the majority of the guys on here are going to highly recommend the 360 heads,
Click to expand...
OP asked about 360 heads, no one here is trying to force the dude to use them most said could work depending on goals. Your the one going around saying everyone is wrong without knowing the OP goals either, since he's interested in 360 heads my guess his goals is more than what 318 heads can provide but that's still a guess on what the OP wants, so who knows.

Can 360 heads be an usable upgrade even on a mild 318 in the streets, answer is yes, does the OP need to do the swap, answer is it depends.

Dan the man said:
The true meaning of the photo that you sent is, such a deep hole for such a shallow mind. Was you applying this to yourself by chance?
Click to expand...
Obviously it's was towards you, the dude who learned what he's saying basically yesterday now telling the one's that spent 3+ years spoon feeding you on how to do a basic 318 build now trying tell them the way it is. Apparently you surpassed us all on your little break.
 
273 said:
OP asked about 360 heads, no one here is trying to force the dude to use them most said could work depending on goals. Your the one going around saying everyone is wrong without knowing the OP goals either, since he's interested in 360 heads my guess his goals is more than what 318 heads can provide but that's still a guess on what the OP wants, so who knows.

Can 360 heads be an usable upgrade even on a mild 318 in the streets, answer is yes, does the OP need to do the swap, answer is it depends.


Obviously it's was towards you, the dude who learned what he's saying basically yesterday now telling the one's that spent 3+ years spoon feeding you on how to do a basic 318 build now trying tell them the way it is. Apparently you surpassed us all on your little break.
Click to expand...
Sure 360 heads will probably work but the op didn't provide much more information on his build. There's no mention of intended use of his vehicle, no carburetor or intake manifold choices, is he using headers or stock exhaust manifolds, ignition system, so I went by what little information that the op listed
 
junkyardhero said:
so your point being is that you think you've stumbled onto something that nobody in the history of building these motors has considered? and now you think that somehow equates to you having a "one up" on others?

fine. fair enough.

however... the point remains that you've never done it. so you don't know. all you have is a hypothetical. which... well, isn't all that hypothetical because nobody has encountered this problem. the most likely scenario is because if you're decking the block that much, cutting the heads to that degree and running that thin of a headgasket you're build a gat dang race motor and *gasp* you're using studs. imagine that.

i just put the heads on my 318, and if i didn't just pay $50 for a head gasket and intake gaskets and it wasn't a pain in all nine assholes to pull one off in the car, i'd do it just to get the measurement and show you how much room there is left down there.

i love how you get wrapped up in a bunch of hypothetical inconsequential nonsense on a motor that you're never gonna build for a car that you don't even own.

don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff, danimal.
Click to expand...
Did you go to school on how to be disrespectful? Cause your good at it. Maybe it's because I don't have all of the schooling that you do and it's just possible that I might know some of the same things that you know.
 
Dan the man said:
Sure 360 heads will probably work but the op didn't provide much more information on his build. There's no mention of intended use of his vehicle, no carburetor or intake manifold choices, is he using headers or stock exhaust manifolds, ignition system, so I went by what little information that the op listed
Click to expand...
I notice that too, doesn't mean can't give some basic info on his question until/if he supply's more information. I've ask the OP to for further information too, doesn't seem to be coming so it's probably a best guess scenario.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Well I wasn't gonna put my 2 cents into this hodge-podge, but since it's gone off the rails anyway; here goes.
Start a new thread cuz there is almost nothing in this thread worthy of being called good advise; and nobody actually tried to answer your question, with the exception of the one guy everybody likes to pick on.
I've given my opinion on a few 318 builds, and also got bashed, so no sense in me going thru that again.
Ryan, there are quite a few smart guys on this forum, smarter and more experienced than me. But there is also a preponderance of testosterone here, and a lotta herd-mentality.
Lemmee say this, which is based on my 50 plus years of experience;
1) the smallest difference between your 318 and a 340, is the bore size.
2) the biggest difference between them is the cylinder pressure.
3) and the 340 cam was a good cam in it's day, now 50 years ago.
4) with a manual trans, your engine is as good as married to the driveshaft, which is married to the rear gears. What you do to your engine has to be married to what the wheels are doing. If you miss the mark, you will not be happy.
5) if you install the big port heads, do it for a good reason.
6) never pick the cam first, unless your pockets are deep enough to make all the changes that may be required to run that cam. and
for crying out loud, when you refer to a cam, do so by it's 050 specs and include the LSA. From those numbers, we can generate everything we need to know about how it's gonna run. I think it's not fair that I have to go looking for those specs, knowing only a lift, and none of the smart guys can give good advise until the cam specs are known.
7) as others have asked, state what you expect out of your engine. For example, saying that your car has 3.23s and you want to keep them, is gonna throw out about 80 percent of the street cams available. and for a manual-trans 318, probably more.
8) state what fuel you are willing to pay for. Each octane gas has a pressure ceiling, beyond which the engine can get into trouble real quick. You can run less pressure than that ceiling, that's ok, but not more. and each octane build then, for optimum performance, is a different build.
And until your exact Compression ratio has been calculated, and your quench has been established, nobody can give you good advice, unless they include all the requirements that apply to that advice.
For example, if your pistons are .057 in the hole and your heads have 72cc combustion chambers , there's gonna be hundreds of dollars need to be spent to run a stock 340 cam, and to not have a dog every time your rpm falls below 3000 rpm.
So you know, one guy can tell you his 284cammed 318 with 340 heads was a giant killer, because from 4500 to 6000, and it was.
And another can tell you that his 340 headed and 340cammed, 318 was a dog with 3.23s, and it was.
And I can tell you that a first gen 340 , with 318heads, a 318 cam, and 2.94s with a bit of stall was a killer combo, and it was.
9) Nobody wants to admit that every good combo is very highly tied to cylinder pressure. Two identical engines, other than one cranks 130 and the other cranks 185, these are night and day different engines. I'm not kidding. Not only is the one close to twice as powerful, absolute; but the midrange is killer fun, and from idle to 3000, you would never know that it was just the same basic engine as the 130psi example.
Pressure makes heat. Heat makes torque. Torque times rpm makes Power.
The more pressure you have, when you need it, the more fun your engine/combo will be. and when it never comes, Ryan is a sad sad guy.
10) with a manual trans, it's very easy to make a low-pressure doggy streeter, that can only be band-aided by gears and/or slipping the clutch. Don't be a statistic.
11) now;
I did not tell you what heads to run.
I did not tell you what cam to run.
I did not tell you what cylinder pressure to run.
I did not in any way answer any of your questions.
Decide for yourself what good advice is.
Now, go read what @Dan the man said.
Click to expand...
The 318 Hater has spoken!
Obey or be ridiculed!
 
273 said:
If you want to putt around town is what the /6 was designed for 170/198, even the 225 was designed as an upgrade in performance over base. And since you don't drive a /6 at full throttle all the time even they have extra power for daily driving.
Click to expand...
Wrong ish
Still spreading misinformation I see.
 
Dan the man said:
Did you go to school on how to be disrespectful? Cause your good at it. Maybe it's because I don't have all of the schooling that you do and it's just possible that I might know some of the same things that you know.
Click to expand...
hoo buddy, if you think that's disrespectful i suggest you stay home polishing your silverware, reading magazines and online articles about engine building and order in everything because with that tissue paper skin of yours the world might just be a little too much for you to bear.

anyway, a dirty little secret here: i didn't go to school for this ****. i mean yeah, i was born dick first with a ratchet in hand and double stack snap on attached to my umbilical cord; but i still had to learn this junk. and i did so by experience. building and breaking ****. spending my own hard earned money. ******* something up because i didn't RTFSM or check a critical tolerance. years of snapping together junk, busting knuckles, figuring it out when there wasn't a forum to turn to for answers, all that.

sure it's possible you know some of the things i know, there's a vast amount of common knowledge out there daniel. but don't come chirping up with some bullshit hypothetical when you don't got no grease under your nails.

you don't gotta fake it to kick it homey.
 
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