318 rebuild/upgrade

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The Performer is beter. The LD4B isn't bad though. I have one. I think the ports are 360 large. I'll check later this eveing.
 
harrytoes said:
Is there a big difference between the Edlebrock Performer and the Edelbrock LD4B?
Click to expand...

Apperance wise,
a Lot, the LD4B looks like a stock intake.

The Performer has a lot of extra threaded holes.

The Performer is Not suggested for use on a 273,

I think the Performer will not flow well at low cfm,
speeds,whereas the LD4B is a Chrysler approved,and sold part,
that was made for the 273,and 318.
 
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler_sb_perf.shtml

Chrysler 318/360 V8
PERFORMER 318/360 (idle-5500 rpm)
Designed for street 318-340-360 c.i.d. Chrysler V8s. #2176


http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/edel.htm

LD4B Chrysler LA 4 bbl. Holley; 180°; Dealer sold as #283613 1967-* LA with 318 ports


LD4B.jpg


2176.jpg
 
The Performer is Not suggested for use on a 273,

I think the Performer will not flow well at low cfm,
speeds,whereas the LD4B is a Chrysler approved,and sold part,
that was made for the 273,and 318.
Click to expand...


Why would you think a performer would flow poorly on a 273 and or be out done by a older discontiued intake. Is it a C.I.D. thing?
I seldom if really ever see a company, like Edelbrock, go backwards in intake manifold design.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Why would you think a performer would flow poorly on a 273 and or be out done by a older discontiued intake. Is it a C.I.D. thing?
I seldom if really ever see a company, like Edelbrock, go backwards in intake manifold design.
Click to expand...


Ask Edelbrock why they do Not list the 273 in
the engines the Performer fits. ;)

Maybe they discontinued the LD4B, because sales were low,
as the 273 engine was last built in 1969, the 318 was still being built
in 1989.

The Performer ports are larger than the 273.

I am using an LD4B intake on my 318,
because I wanted a small port intake. I drive my Valiant on the street.

I drove it to Carlisle last year,and got from 16-21 mpg,on the road,
depending on the speed I was going.
When I kept up with some fast moving Trucks, 80-90 mph i got the 16 ish
mpg. When I was in heavier traffic going 55-70 mph, I got 21 mpg.

The torker is not,nor was ever suggested for use on a 273,
it might bolt up,but the way it works will not be as good,
as on a larger engine.
 
Hum, I know that asking Edelbrock at this point, I'll probably ethier get a kid saying, "Whaaat intake is that called again, hold on, I'll need my boss for this." and or how many liters is that again? >jk<
Seriously. I don't think I'll get an answer for that question. I'd bet because the Performer was made after the engine was discountinued.
I would certainly see the performer as a better intake. Just a IMO thing.
The intake does indeed fit and would work on the engine in everyway except that , hum,, 1 or 2 year 5/16 attaching hardware with a different angle bolt engine.
I forget.

Pop quiz, who knows?

The Performer has .95 X 1.95 ports. How does this match up to the shared smaller port heads of the 318/273?
I went outside to measure up my '79, 318 heads and found 15/16 X 2-1/32. How this translates into decmials? I don't remember how to do it.
(Besides I worked ast night and I'm a lil'tired right now)
I also have in hand a LD4B and measured the ports to be 1-1/16 X 2.

Other Edelbrock site intake window measurements just for the here and now ref. for those interested.

Regular Performer......97 X 1.95
RPM Airgap, ............98 X 2.16
TorkerII,...............1.00 X 2.17
RPM (regular) .......1.01 X 2.17
Magnum RPM.........1.08 X 2.10
 
So if i go with the performer and get a perfromer carb(1406). I'm guessing that the linckage will be different than my carter 2bbl. What do I need to change, buy, or manufactor to make it work?
 
harrytoes said:
So if i go with the performer and get a perfromer carb(1406). I'm guessing that the linckage will be different than my carter 2bbl. What do I need to change, buy, or manufactor to make it work?
Click to expand...
No, you can make the 2bbl. linkage work. Theres an adjustment on the swing arm of the tranny and you can use a nut and bolt with 2 washers up by the carbs arm to set it up well. Not a problem.

Thanks BJR. Got a second to measur up any 318 heads around for Ha ha's on window size?
See ya in Aug. late
 
Intake port window size.
Different years. The one above is a '79 head size.
Just was wondering how they varied.
 
cavemanmoron said:
if I knew before hand, what I do know, I would have used
1.88 intakes,
Click to expand...

I'm looking at some upgrades to my 318. Based on what I've read in various posts about valve size (1.88 vs 2.02), I bought a set of '589 heads (340/360). Based on this thread, it sounds like that may not have been that great of a decision. They're not on yet, so easy to change plans at this point!

At one point I was thinking about a 360, so I've probably taken a lot of what I read about the 360's and 'assumed' it would work similar on the 318.

*IF* I get the heads milled to maintain a decent compression ratio, would the increase in flow be better than a mild port and polish on the 318 heads (retaining the stock valve size)? Or am I better off to resell them or keep them for a future 360 build?

My plans are for a somewhat warmed up street rod, probably never see a drag strip (or more than 5,000 RPM). So the goal is a strong low- to mid-range and the top end HP not as important. The rest of the combo (still in flux and changing everytime I think about it) will probably be the Performer manifold/cam (maybe a set of roller rockers) with a 600 CFM vacuum secondary 4 BBL, small dia headers, and a home brew port/polish/gasket match on the heads, rebuild the 904 with the 'low gear' set, kevlar bands, shift kit and a higher stall (not much research on this yet) converter and something in the 3.23 range for the rear axle.

Suggestions and ideas welcome...

Thanks,

Jay
 
I'm prety sure the std Performer "318/360" hase the smaller port window that the 318/273 share. I'm also pretty sure they didnt list the 273 application because the earlier 273s had a different angle for the last two bolts on each end. Think that ended in '66, but I'm not certain. The Edelbrock tends to be a high torque/great low speed intake, and the LD4B is more like a factory 340 style, just in aluminum.

Pyro, If your car has the original 318 (meaning '68?) 318, you already have smaller chambers than the 589s have. By a bit. '68-71ish 318s had smaller open chambers. I like to use them when I needs more squeeze on a newer LA...If you're looking for power, I would either use your exisitng heads, fit them with 1.88/1.609 valves, good valve job, springs, trim the guides, etc. and run them; or get a set of Magnum heads, have them done up, and run them. That would require a little more work, and parts, but I think they would be your best bet.
 
moper said:
If your car has the original 318 (meaning '68?) 318, you already have smaller chambers than the 589s have. By a bit. '68-71ish 318s had smaller open chambers. I like to use them when I needs more squeeze on a newer LA...If you're looking for power, I would either use your exisitng heads, fit them with 1.88/1.609 valves, good valve job, springs, trim the guides, etc. and run them; or get a set of Magnum heads, have them done up, and run them. That would require a little more work, and parts, but I think they would be your best bet.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yes, so far as I know (IE, I haven't swapped it and the person I bought it from didn't say anything about an engine swap) it's the original '68 318. At one time, I was looking at using the Magnum heads when I was thinking about a 360, then saw a bunch of posts about them cracking, then scaled my project back and decided to stick with the 318.

Since most of what I read seemed to indicate the 1.88 intake was better for street use than the 2.02's, I figured that the '589 heads would be a good choice. I was trying to avoid too much machine work, but oh well...

I'll go back and look at the Magnum head stuff some more and start looking through the limited selection of junkyards around here.

That modifies the cam choice somewhat too, because of the 1.6:1 rocker arms, correct? Or since the Performer is a milder cam, is that less of an issue?

Thanks again,

Jay
 
The Magnums have a smaller chamber thaan the 302s IIRC, but not by much, and the '68 318 head has one smaller than both I think. So, I'd plan on using the MP thin head gaskets too. I would choose a better cam than one made by Edelbrock if it were up to me. And dont forget, with Magnums, you need AMC lifters, and drilled pushrods to keep the top end oiled. So if you can purcahse just the cam, and then lifters, you'll be better off.
 
Is it worth all the effort to use the magnum heads? It seems like it would be much easier to use the "302"heads not as much work. Is the gain worth iit in using the magnum heads?
 
moper said:
I would choose a better cam than one made by Edelbrock if it were up to me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, been doing more reading, I think once I've dialed in my combo more (leaving the cam till last), I'll call one of the cam companies with the details for a recommendation and/or custom grind.

moper said:
And dont forget, with Magnums, you need AMC lifters, and drilled pushrods to keep the top end oiled. So if you can purchase just the cam, and then lifters, you'll be better off.
Click to expand...
Yep, I've got the How To books on both "Hot Rodding Mopar small blocks" and "Building Big Inch Mopar small blocks" that cover all the modifications to use the Magnum heads.

Although, now that it looks like it might wind up being a more serious build on the 318, I'm half-way back to using a 360...

And if I'm going to do that it might as well be a stroker...

And then...

#-o LOL!

Jay
 
Those "might as wells" will kill a project....They do that to mine all the time. You're better just deciding a total amount you can spend, and build the biggest you have access to.
 
The LD4B is a 318 version of the LD340. Main difference is the intake port size. Otherwise the castings are the same. You could modify (open up the intake ports) an LD4B to match the larger 340/360 port size and end up with basically an LD340. Intake ports on 318/273 are the smaller variety, the 340/360 are the larger versions. The late magnum heads are similar to a 340/360 port. By the way, the easiest way to determine the intake port size is to check fel pro's gasket info, the dimensions are all there, only two sizes you'll find.

For those interested: What I'm building is a .060 over '68 318 (328ci). I have just finished porting a set of the 302 casting heads (bowls/gasket matched/intake ports opened up, valves unshrouded). The heads have 188/160 valves. I will be running the mopar 268/272 .450/.455 cam. Intake is an oem sinlge plane iron '66 4 bbl 273 intake - port matched and the secondary butterflies opened on an end mill to allow a 625 AFB. The CR is about 9:1 using stock 318 .060 over pistons, and a thin head gasket.

I have a set of the oem wrinkle valve covers. Motor will look exactly like a 273 4bbl except be 55 ci larger. Exhaust consists of the laysons shortie headers. Ignition will be a stock electronic unit recurved, and an orange box.

My only comment about the 302 casting: theres a heck of a lot of material to be removed from the intake ports. The pushrod bulge in the port has to be shaved down quite a bit. I am guessing the motor will make around 300-350 hp.
 
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