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Just to revisit the valve job situation......

An assembled cnc head “should” come with some sort of finished valve job, and the bare cnc head apparently doesnt.

Since the valve job is often a critical part of the work done to the heads to optimize the flow, and the bare heads didn’t get one......... does Speedmaster show different flow data for the bare and assembled heads?

Are there instructions provided with the bare head on the correct angles and widths to use in order to obtain the best/advertised flow numbers?

These aren’t really questions........ more like just pointing out why published flow data for products like this can often fall short of advertised claims.
Someone developed a pair of ports and accompanying valve job, got some flow data........and sent it off for digitizing.
Now the heads are being cranked out....... but at least in the case of the bare heads...... it’s not really a completed copy of what was developed.

The point of my earlier post was....... the bare head has the supposedly “unfinished” seats, and the assembled head seats should be “finished”
My question is....... on these heads...... how different are they really?
Maybe Toulene can pop a couple valves out so we can get a peek.
 
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Certainly Edelbrock, Speedmaster, Pro Comp, even EQ or any other brand of head out there, certainly they see/hear/ and know about the reviews of "ready to run out of the box" are negative and people are disassembling and making corrections.

Why don't ANY of these manufactures visit their quality control department, take a corrective action and make it so we can truly buy a "ready to run out of the box" head???

My goodness, they must know! They must read feedback! they have got to have heard! Why is this so difficult???
 
318willrun said:
Certainly Edelbrock, Speedmaster, Pro Comp, even EQ or any other brand of head out there, certainly they see/hear/ and know about the reviews of "ready to run out of the box" are negative and people are disassembling and making corrections.

Why don't ANY of these manufactures visit their quality control department, take a corrective action and make it so we can truly buy a "ready to run out of the box" head???

My goodness, they must know! They must read feedback! they have got to have heard! Why is this so difficult???
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Because a lot of things "will run" even 'jacked up' and most wont know the diff ...until the valve seizes in the guide.
 
Millions of vehicles are produced every year with heads that got built in mass quantities without having some specialty shop giving them a once over.

I’ve seen many new oem heads through the years, and the fit and finish of the heads being put on those millions of vehicles annually are on par with what many aftermarket suppliers produce.

It takes time to have each head scrutinized and corrected as deemed “necessary”....... and time is $$$.
 
318willrun said:
Certainly Edelbrock, Speedmaster, Pro Comp, even EQ or any other brand of head out there, certainly they see/hear/ and know about the reviews of "ready to run out of the box" are negative and people are disassembling and making corrections.

Why don't ANY of these manufactures visit their quality control department, take a corrective action and make it so we can truly buy a "ready to run out of the box" head???

My goodness, they must know! They must read feedback! they have got to have heard! Why is this so difficult???
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Why??? Because of cost. Racers want a cheap deal. When I called and talked to the guy that runs ProMaxx he told me of coarse they import there heads but they get them in an unfinished state and go from there. Its cheaper to do it right with quality parts than it is to fix junk from over-seas. As far as flowing a head without the valve job being finished no one in their right mind would do that.
 
PRH said:
Millions of vehicles are produced every year with heads that got built in mass quantities without having some specialty shop giving them a once over.
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My point exactly. How many valves were seizing up in the guides in the 60s from the factory? Or how many valves weren't even sealing and engines had a dead cylinder from the factory??

"yeah, my '72 Duster had a valve freeze up in the guide is what they said, and only at 10,000 miles. Can you imagine?"

Jim - "Nice 68 Satellite Bob" Bob - "Yeah, I picked her up right off the show room floor today with that bad miss and two dead cylinders. But hey, 14 out of 16 valves sealing ain't too bad"

Give us a break and give us an out of the box, ready to run head that's truly a bolt and go. We work hard for our money and they take a bundle for a set of "ready to run" heads. Give us what we paid for
 
I HAVE personally seen multiple sets of edelbrock heads taken out of the box, slapped on and ran with zero issues. I however, am very particular, and I check everything, but there is a saying "perfect is the enemy of good enough" your results may vary
 
replicaracer43 said:
I HAVE personally seen multiple sets of edelbrock heads taken out of the box, slapped on and ran with zero issues. I however, am very particular, and I check everything, but there is a saying "perfect is the enemy of good enough" your results may vary
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It only takes one tight valve guide to destroy a multi thousand dollar engine. Do you feel lucky, well do yaaaa
 
pittsburghracer said:
It only takes one tight valve guide to destroy a multi thousand dollar engine. Do you feel lucky, well do yaaaa
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which takes us back to post 56. Do we buy new cars and pull the heads and inspect them?
For Pete's Sake - Somebody build a "TRUE" out of the box head that you can bolt and go with "peace in mind"...…..
 
318willrun said:
which takes us back to post 56. Do we buy new cars and pull the heads and inspect them?
For Pete's Sake - Somebody build a "TRUE" out of the box head that you can bolt and go with "peace in mind"...…..
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Stock clearances are usually sloppy cast iron clearances. Those of us that race and beat on our stuff want better quality control and check things closer. Kinda like degreeing in cams. If you don’t care don’t do it, but if you want top Performance you would never build an engine without doing it. Same with stock type pistons not needing precision clearances because it’s built for a car going 55 miles per hour cruising to Walmart.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Stock clearances are usually sloppy cast iron clearances. Those of us that race and beat on our stuff want better quality control and check things closer. Kinda like degreeing in cams. If you don’t care don’t do it, but if you want top Performance you would never build an engine without doing it. Same with stock type pistons not needing precision clearances because it’s built for a car going 55 miles per hour cruising to Walmart.
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so would I be stupid to buy a set of eddy's, bolt them on a engine that runs good but not an All Out Class racer and run 'em?? I think the general talk is "ya better take 'em apart", even if your bolting them on a 318 2bbl in a truck. This is what disgust me, cant even trust 'em on a mild or stock small block.
 
318willrun said:
so would I be stupid to buy a set of eddy's, bolt them on a engine that runs good but not an All Out Class racer and run 'em?? I think the general talk is "ya better take 'em apart", even if your bolting them on a 318 2bbl in a truck. This is what disgust me, cant even trust 'em on a mild or stock small block.
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Did you see the pictures of the stock Edelbrock heads and the ProMax heads that I posted when I did some flow tests on them. Edelbrock heads are crap in comparison
 
I don't think the valve job is much better on the assembled head, almost like a half baked 3 angle In the picture. But they do seat.
IMG_20181215_105445714.jpg
 
My last set of Edelbrock heads I bought. And VERY last. Don't look at the valve job because I already cut it for 2.08 valves in this picture of the seats. Would you want to run these out of the box???


DSC01430.JPG
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DSC01433.JPG
 
pittsburghracer said:
My last set of Edelbrock heads I bought. And VERY last. Don't look at the valve job because I already cut it for 2.08 valves in this picture of the seats. Would you want to run these out of the box???


View attachment 1715263492 View attachment 1715263493 View attachment 1715263494 View attachment 1715263495
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That's funny because I compared a set of edelbrocks to some speedmasters before I purchased my first set of speedmasters. The edelbrocks looked terrible.
 
Looks like they cnc’d a couple of angles below the 45 on that assembled head.

Probably works pretty good.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they checked out fine for guide clearance and seat runout.

Edit:looking at the bare head pics again, it looks like maybe those two angles below the intake seat might be there on that head as well.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a more up close pic of the intake seat on that bare head.
 
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PRH said:
Looks like they cnc’d a couple of angles below the 45 on that assembled head.

Probably works pretty good.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they checked out fine for guide clearance and seat runout.

Edit:looking at the bare head pics again, it looks like maybe those two angles below the intake seat might be there on that head as well.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a more up close pic of the intake seat on that bare head.
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Buy a set, it's a better "as finished" head , and at a better price
 
70aarcuda said:
Lets see....no short turn...two angle valve job...sunken seats.....you guys need to get out of the house ....dam..LOL...

change of plan....going to have complete valve job done on the heads as a valve job will probably help the heads.....
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still waiting for them to get done.....
 
Saw the machine shop owner at the races last weekend...asked him about the heads...He said I said I was not in a hurry since it has been a month....I said...I was worried that there was something wrong with them....He called today to say they are done and I made him feel guilty ....lol
 
70aarcuda said:
Saw the machine shop owner at the races last weekend...asked him about the heads...He said I said I was not in a hurry since it has been a month....I said...I was worried that there was something wrong with them....He called today to say they are done and I made him feel guilty ....lol
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did they flow them?
 
70aarcuda said:
Saw the machine shop owner at the races last weekend...asked him about the heads...He said I said I was not in a hurry since it has been a month....I said...I was worried that there was something wrong with them....He called today to say they are done and I made him feel guilty ....lol
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In this biz when you say you arent in a hurry, its months.lol
I learned to say things like.. 'I dont need them for a couple weeks'.... ****, but then sometimes they're done 3 days later as if to impress me. All good.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
In this biz when you say you arent in a hurry, its months.lol
I learned to say things like.. 'I dont need them for a couple weeks'.... ****, but then sometimes they're done 3 days later as if to impress me. All good.
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No hurry means... I'll start on em when you call me about progression. LOL
 
70aarcuda said:
Saw the machine shop owner at the races last weekend...asked him about the heads...He said I said I was not in a hurry since it has been a month....I said...I was worried that there was something wrong with them....He called today to say they are done and I made him feel guilty ....lol
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Squeaky wheel gets the grease!
 
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