360 hydraulic lifter valve lash

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73AbodEE said:
is there a way to find out how much different they are Bruce? like maybe .050 or .060 ?
i should have addressed this when i had the motor apart but i assumed summits lifters were the right ones and didnt think to second guess their info
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Smallblock seat height was 1.88 Big block was 1.91. Which still doesn't solve your dilemma, because it's less than the BB. Did you happen to notice any slop before you pulled it apart? I ask because you never know what someone did before, like shorter pushrods etc.


Here is what I am looking at.

http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Hydraulic Lifters'-0.aspx
 
dodgetkboy78 said:
Are you sure about your pushrods?

Just a tidbit I didn't see mentioned, 360 pushrods are longer than 318 pushrods.......
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This is what I'm starting to wonder as well. Someone could have been in the engine before hand and put different parts in.
 
dodgetkboy78 said:
Are you sure about your pushrods?

Just a tidbit I didn't see mentioned, 360 pushrods are longer than 318 pushrods.......
Click to expand...

these are the very same pushrods that came out . this was the only engine apart at the time

Badsport said:
Smallblock seat height was 1.88 Big block was 1.91. Which still doesn't solve your dilemma, because it's less than the BB. Did you happen to notice any slop before you pulled it apart? I ask because you never know what someone did before, like shorter pushrods etc.


Here is what I am looking at.

http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Hydraulic Lifters'-0.aspx
Click to expand...

the car the engine came out of was an original owner 33,000 mile doba owned by some old people that had all the maintenance records that had been hit in the back. there was nothing other than oil changes and tire stuff done to it. 1.88 verses 1.91 is not much difference.
 
Lance, you mentioned earlier it acted like a reduced base circle. Could that cam have been ground a little off? I'm seeing so many stories lately about poor quality control.
 
OldmanRick said:
Lance, you mentioned earlier it acted like a reduced base circle. Could that cam have been ground a little off? I'm seeing so many stories lately about poor quality control.
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its entirely possible, but you would think that someone would have caught it if there had been a few that slipped out. but i dont know. i just hate to go tearing into it...
 
Badsport said:
I know, that's what I was getting at. Did you notice anything odd when you pulled it apart.
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it ran good, i was able to hear it run and i actually pulled it out myself. internally it was really clean . i didnt think about checking the valve train, but it didnt clack and rattle like it does now. im at a loss here, i was hoping the lifters were to blame lol
 
i pre-pumped the lifters and primed the pump before installing
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Sigh.....

Here's the deal, there's a lot of math that goes into valvetrain, here's the short skinny.

Your lifters have an X amount of distance between the socket and the face.
Your pushrods have and Y amount of length.
Your valves are supposed to stick out of the head an O amount of distance from the face.

So, if all you did was have a slight tick, changed the cam and lifters, and had all this distance..... Something changed with X or Y, or, your cam is ground on a smaller base circle?

IDK.

Did you check the pushrod lengths? I mean, a 360 has a certain length pushrod, (I am nowhere near that info) is it the correct length of what you have?
 
dodgetkboy78 said:
Sigh.....
So, if all you did was have a slight tick, changed the cam and lifters, and had all this distance..... Something changed with X or Y, or, your cam is ground on a smaller base circle?

IDK.

Did you check the pushrod lengths? I mean, a 360 has a certain length pushrod, (I am nowhere near that info) is it the correct length of what you have?
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sigh..im with you , my brain hurts lol , the pushrods are good without a doubt. its possible the cam is screwed up , i doubt summit would own up to it... unless there is .060 of carbon already built up, i cant see it being any of the valves. the heads were great when i had them off and they were clean.
 
I'll take one more shot and then i'll let you rest.....hehe

You said you put new rockers on. Could the pushrod cup area be recessed into the rockers more then the original set?
 
OldmanRick said:
I'll take one more shot and then i'll let you rest.....hehe

You said you put new rockers on. Could the pushrod cup area be recessed into the rockers more then the original set?
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thats a great thought for sure Rick, but yes, i made sure they were good to go. thats interesting you bring that up, when i got the new ones, i looked at it as a waste of money because the old ones were in great shape in comparison lol
 
Are you getting oil to both sides? You say it seems to be on 6 and 8. Rocker shaft installed correctly?

I'm just thinking out loud here.
 
dodgetkboy78 said:
Are you sure about your pushrods?..............Just a tidbit I didn't see mentioned, 360 pushrods are longer than 318 pushrods.......
Click to expand...

dodgetkboy78 said:
Yupper...... Seen it a few times..... From the "all pushrods for smallblocks are the same" crowd.
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dodgetkboy78 said:
..... you check the pushrod lengths? I mean, a 360 has a certain length pushrod, (I am nowhere near that info) is it the correct length of what you have?
Click to expand...

??? SINCE WHEN ??? He is talking about a 77 LA block and heads, NOT a magnum and NOT a roller.

So far as I know, ALL SB LA repeat LA pushrods with factory not adjustable valve gear are the same length.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/...wer/Part-Type/Pushrods-Assembled/?Ns=Rank|Asc


I've had the very same 273 factory stock adjustable pushrods on ever LA small block there is. 1 They came off a 273. 2 Ran them on the 340. 3 Ran them with the 318, and now, 4 on the LA 360 in the 67
 
just taking a minute to thank you guys. i think i will rip off the intake and put in some new "small block" lifters and see if that changes any thing.

the engine has never misfired and the plugs look normal, so i would think if any of the valves were hanging open , it would be noticable.

with a valve completely closed, new valve train, good pushrods, new lifters, i dont just dont see how there could be any lash. its a mystery to me.
 
I would not change all the lifters

I'd pull out a known good one or buy a new replacment --just one-- and check it and your old ones against the "bad" one and a "known good" one (that's 4 altogether) for pushrod seat height

Check out a couple of other pushrods, although I guess you swapped em

AND CHECK THE valve stem installed height against other valves
 
67Dart273 said:
I would not change all the lifters

I'd pull out a known good one or buy a new replacment --just one-- and check it and your old ones against the "bad" one and a "known good" one (that's 4 altogether) for pushrod seat height

Check out a couple of other pushrods, although I guess you swapped em

AND CHECK THE valve stem installed height against other valves
Click to expand...

Del, i went and rotated the engine around and i did find a collapsed intake lifter on #8 . WTF MAN, these are brand FN new! there are a couple other suspected lifters. when a good lifter is pumped up, should i be able to plunge the lifter when it is riding the base circle of the cam with the rocker arm and pushrod?

i am using the original pushrods that the engine was born with. when all the valves are closed and no valve train, they should all stand equal in height , correct?

man, i tell you what, i have never had so many lifter problems in all my life lol

them solids are sounding better every minute!
 
73AbodEE said:
i am using the original pushrods that the engine was born with. when all the valves are closed and no valve train, they should all stand equal in height , correct?
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They should, but I bet they don't. I checked the stems on the 360 I just pulled apart and they are not equal. When I had the heads off of my teen they weren't equal either.
 
73AbodEE said:
when all the valves are closed and no valve train, they should all stand equal in height , correct?
Click to expand...

I would NOT assume that. (I'm a suspicous SOB) Not knowing the history of the engine, there are several ways that valves can become "different." One is simply having the valves ground. Maybe someone installed a replacement valve seat?? or something on that one valve, and now it sits a little lower. That's why you need to measure 'em. Not difficult, just use a depth gauge / caliper

I will admit that the "usual" case with a valve grind is that the valves get "taller" as the valves / seats are ground, so the valve stems need to be ground back to spec. This is also one reason valve spring shims are used --- when the valves // seats are ground, the retainer becomes further above the spring seat on the head, so you have to shim the spring to bring the included dimension back in line.
 
Badsport said:
They should, but I bet they don't. I checked the stems on the 360 I just pulled apart and they are not equal. When I had the heads off of my teen they weren't equal either.
Click to expand...

67Dart273 said:
I would NOT assume that. (I'm a suspicous SOB) Not knowing the history of the engine, there are several ways that valves can become "different." One is simply having the valves ground. Maybe someone installed a replacement valve seat?? or something on that one valve, and now it sits a little lower. That's why you need to measure 'em. Not difficult, just use a depth gauge / caliper
Click to expand...


can carbon build up behind the valve cause an un equal height? just wondering how that can happen. i have a very, very slight difference in height, but very little. i was kind of throwing out the thought that MAYBE it could slightly cause the valve not to close 100 % .
 
I have a question. You said you prepumped the lifters. Did you do this in a cup of oil. or when you had it together spinning the motor over while cranking?
 
momoparnut said:
I have a question. You said you prepumped the lifters. Did you do this in a cup of oil. or when you had it together spinning the motor over while cranking?
Click to expand...

these were manually pumped up with a pushrod in a cup of pure synthetic 10/40 . i used zinc rich break in oil and the assembly lube for the cam. and i have since changed the oil and filter.

i just replaced the lifters in a daily driven 318 using the same process , and they are very happy, doing great and street driven every day.

of course, the brand new lifters in the 360 that are crapping out are summit brand which came with the cam
 
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