360 timing

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Is 21* the initial timing? If so, that engine has probably 8.5:1 compression.
 
-Thx Rusty; and yes at 21* initial, and 900rpm, its pulling 13.5 in Hg, so there appears to be a small cam in it.Im guessing in the range of 220/225*@.050,give or take.If you check out the very early posts, you can see where he got the 13.5c/r number,off a "projected build sheet",similar to a desk-top-dyno; not an actual built or dyno sheet.The projected compression was on that sheet too; at 239psi.In my questioning, I have totally ignored that spec sheet, judged it to be just a study.
-Say Rusty; since youre tuned in,would you have a recommendation as to a fully adjustable street dist with a v-can, for Ted,that is easy, EASY, to adjust ?
-Now Ted, yes the missing v-can,and hence missing off-idle timing can manifest as a hesitation. However with 21* initial and the fast initial rate of advance in the dist.I doubt it is the root cause of your stumble.Id be more inclined to look to the accelerator pump circuit.And the missing can will very definitely affect the warm-up. The cold engine likes a ton of advance which it can only get by combing all three advance systems. If you were to watch on a scanner, how much advance manufacturers program into modern EFI systems, to get them to cold-idle at sub 1000rpm and drive away,you might be amazed.
-Also,I strongly urge you not to install that can together with 21*initial.The interplay between those two is bound to create rattle. A compromise might be to reset the initial to something like 12* and slow down the v-can(by adjusting the nipple screw).The roadtest will tell you how to proceed.Just remember not to get into Rattle, as power timing will be excessive, at 12*+31*=43*. Stay below the 'Rattle threshold".
-Also bear in mind that the money you spend on the can will be forfeited if you buy an aftermarket dizzy.
 
Yeah. The Skip White units are lookin real good. They come with distributor timing at 20* all in by about 3K with a nice adjustable vacuum can. Should be all he'll ever need.
 
Interesting.......it seems the engine isn't what was described in the beginning of this thread......perhaps misrepresented by the seller. I guess in this case, it worked out better, seeing as how your looking for a street motor and not a 13 to 1 race engine. Looks like your sticking with the tuning, your getting there, keep at it!
 
Another distributor to consider is this one.

[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Mopar-HEI-Distributor-318-340-360-50-000-Volt-/311124224080?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item487072e850&vxp=mtr"]Plymouth Mopar Hei Distributor 318 340 360 50 000 Volt | eBay[/ame]

In fact, it is probably better than the Skip White unit since it is exactly the same as the GM HEI unit from the top of the shaft to the top of the coil. Cheaper and easier to find replacement parts. Don't get hung up on the size of the cap like a lot of people do. If you have the room for it, good is good, it doesn't matter that it looks like a "Chevy" cap.
 
what else would i need to buy to make that work? Easily adjustable? I am suprised that i don't see how many degrees of mechanical/vacuum advance\rate of advance it comes with. Maybe i am just missing it. Ebay mobile site is terrible on my old phone.
 
Thx Rusty.
-I dont understand advertising today. The most important details,after finding one that physically fits, are the guts.Instead of details or pics, the adds are full of hype, seemingly designed to get you all reved up and just spend.
-The SkipWhite unit would require new plug wires,an added expense, and some wiring changes.The add fails to mention anything about adjustability, and give no pictures of the guts. For those reasons, personally, I would pass.
-The one from post#105, I would also pass on,for the same reasons;new plug wires,rewiring, and no important details listed or shown.
-Also, I tend to stay away from items that seem to be priced this much lower than I would expect to pay.
-Now if Rusty has had good experiences with either of these units, Im open.
-I think in an earlier post, Ted mentioned he had new wires.
-For Ted, I think, Hes probably best off with a drop-in that uses the factory-type plug wires, adjustable vacuum can, and minimum rewiring.It would also be nice if the timing mech was easily adjustable as to amount and rate(up top like HEI).If it happens to plug into the factory 5/4 pin ECU, that would be a bonus. Ted,whats your take? Are you familiar enough with wiring,to do some rewiring? Im pretty sure there is/are some units out there, that would be more suitable.
-I have been out of the loop for a bit, but seem to remember Crane, or Mallory, or MSD even Accel, used to make those.
-Yeah, check out the Accel, ACC-71301E. And you already have the correct Accel Supercoil pn14001. -Oops,I couldnt find the Accel one on their website. It seems to be discontinued.
-Or the Mallory Type 57;pn5757901.(jegs $384)Preferred fully adjustable unit.Im leaning towards this one, for its ease of tuning.It will grow with any future engine mods.
-Or the Mallory Type 47;4757901.(Jegs $354) It seems you have to purchase a tuning kit separately for this one.Pn 29014.(Jegs $40)
- I must say though, prices on these items have skyrocketed since I shopped last.
 
I have a LOT of experience with the original GM HEI units. Those aftermarket "big cap" HEIs are the exact same, just for the Mopar application. Although they ARE cheap chinkesium electronics, the housings, shafts and hard parts are pretty damn good quality. They are so cheap, even if all the electronics burn out on the maiden voyage, it's still well worth buying real GM replacement stuff to load them up with. But so far, I've not read much bad about them in any way. I plan on using one for my F250.
 
I tried to use one of those big cap HEI units in my 69, and it is REALLY tight to the firewall and wiper motor. I got it in there and worked pretty good for the price.
 
i would prefer a drop in with minimal/no wiring changes. and the jegs options are way out of my price range for now. i have no problem with the "chevy" type cap. but my goodness on my 74' to say it would be REALLY tight would be an undersatement. and I can't help but think there is a lot more to buy to get the gm hei cap distributor to work on my 360, is the mechanical advance easily adjusted in that unit?
 
Mancini has a fully adjustable distributor for 150 bucks, I run one in my B wedge, works great.
 
Any chance you have a pn. I searched their site, and came up empty.They have lots of units, again without specs, but none say adjustable mechanical advance.Please say you have a part number.
-Wait, I missed it the 1st time. MRE-90430 is the one you want @$166. So Realist, how is the mechanical advance adjusted on yours as to amount and rate?
-Its a drop-in for you Ted.Same everything, just better.And bearings yet.
 
ted0161 said:
i would prefer a drop in with minimal/no wiring changes. and the jegs options are way out of my price range for now. i have no problem with the "chevy" type cap. but my goodness on my 74' to say it would be REALLY tight would be an undersatement. and I can't help but think there is a lot more to buy to get the gm hei cap distributor to work on my 360, is the mechanical advance easily adjusted in that unit?
Click to expand...

Wrong. All that distributor needs to run is ONE 12V hot wire that's hot when the switch is on and in the start position. That's ALL. It also requires no ballast resistor. Just ONE hot wire. Caint get no simpler than that.
 
i am not opposed to that distributor, but it appears to have no mechanical advance adjustment. and take a look at that negative feedback before you make a decision to order from them.
 
Ted, which one are you referring to? Rustys HEI? or Mancinis 90430?
-Im tempted to order one of those 90430s for myself.If it has top mounted flyweights, and/or an adjustable rate springing system, like the Mallory.

-fishmens? Any response as to the adjusting methods?
 
Why do you think you need adjustable mechanical advance on a street car?

Also, I just put that up there for the DISTRIBUTOR, not the seller. Just to show you the distributor. Buy whichever one you want. Those distributors have a 20* mechanical advance all in by around 3K RPM. What's to adjust? That's perfect for the street. If you get some kinda fancy thing with adjustable everything, you're just wasting your money.
 
i was under the impression that if i didn't limit the total timing that i would damage my engine. That if i didnt get my timing worked out, i wouldnt be able to tune it properly.
I was refering to ebay listing - 85 negatives in the last 12 months.
Unfortunately there will not be room for the big cap distributor in my car. I was loving the price!
I am really considering the mre-90430 with the orange ecu. but i will have to save up a bit. I wish mancini took paypal.
And back to installing a new vac advance. if i go back to 12* initial i am going to have vacuum in the sparkport at idle.
 
Well, my thinking was this; A)His current dist. just wont work without modding and B)Ted doesnt seem anxious to the mods, and C) the v-can doesnt work at all, and so D)the easiest thing is to drop a new appropriate unit in there, so E) thats all good, but if a guys gonna drop money on a new unit, you might as well get one that will grow with you.
-Say next summer Ted just cant live with 135psi compression.I mean its gonna be a little soft, esp.at the bottom. So a bigger cam goes in there with an appropriate c/r increase. Now he needs a new tune.So he might as well get an adjustable one now.Now, Rusty I know that you know all this. So this is more for Ted, to get my thinking on the table.
-Also please note that his combo pulls highest vacuum at 26* initial, so the 20* in the dist. puts the power timing too high(at 46*). And if we drop it in with 36 power, then the low end will suffer(@16*). So right from the get-go 20* would be a compromise.Even if the initial is set down to 18*, power timing is borderline excessive at 38*.So in the big picture IMHO, the adjustable is the best way to go.Am I wrong?
-Also Rusty, I strongly disagree with an adjustable dist. being a waste of money for a street car, which is how I interpret your post. If a street car doesnt need it, then who does?A race engine;that spends maybe 90% or more of its time at full advance? Heck no.What else? IDK. A street engine spends a huge % of its life below full advance.So the closer you can dial in those advance parameters, the better will be; warm-up, tip-in response, low-speed torque, a smooth cruise, fuel economy, engine longevity,and generally,just all-round drive-ability.Nobody likes it when, the car feels like its driving "through wet cement". Am I wrong?
-Any throttled engine that is operated at various loads and rpms, needs to have its timing systems optimized.
-Having driven the same car for 14yrs and 125000miles with the same engine in various tunes and under various circumstances,and tuning for different fuels,I can attest to the desirability of having an adjustable unit.For several years this car was even my daily driver.

-Perhaps I miss-read your post,somehow. If so, I apologize for my somewhat aggressive response. It is not my intention to irritate you.And if you know that my thinking is faulty, I am open to changing my thinking.
 
Well, I was just recommending something that would match his combo now. I mean, the thing is cheap enough, that he can still upgrade when he needs to and not be out anything.
 
AJ/FormS said:
...-Im tempted to order one of those 90430s for myself.If it has top mounted flyweights, and/or an adjustable rate springing system, like the Mallory.
Click to expand...

I bought the FireCore 90430 and have it on my bench. I've been setting it up to get ready for the install later this month. Seems like a quality piece so far. It does have adjustable mechanical (Mallory style) and adjustable vacuum advance. Comes with three different sets of advance springs (slow, medium and fast rate). Here's a pic of the mechanical advance plate.
 

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Thank you Demon408
-Ted,there you go. MRE-90430 @$165. Triple adjustable,fully compatible, magnetic pick-up, drop-in distributor. Same hook-up, same wiring,and bearings too.And we have testimony from a FABO member;namely Demon408. I cant imagine it getting any better.
-Say 408, I dont see a reluctor in there. So what are they using instead?Or is it mounted under the plate?
 
...-Say 408 said:
It's just like the Mopar distributor, you need to remove the reluctor and top plate to get to the mechanical advance plate. Easy job, at least on the bench. It is possible to adjust the mechanical without removing these parts, (there is a hole in the top plate) but I'm changing the springs so I needed to remove them. Here's a pic of the parts removed from the distributor to get to the advance plate.
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That Firecore is a really nice lookin piece, but I stick to my guns that 90% or better street cars just don't need a "triple adjustable" distributor. I am looking at the Skip White stuff for the Ford truck I just got. I can get the HEI distributor AND Accel wires for less than 75 dollars. Shipped.
 
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