383 power upgrade help

[BENJAMIN ERIC JONES]

Hello to everyone that sees this! I have a 383 out of a 67 newport bored .30 over flat top pistons with 516 heads I believe they are untouched but I don't know for sure , I am looking for advice on what kind of heads I should get I want to go aluminum but I need to here everyone's opinions and what they think is best this will be going into a 73 Duster paired with a OD 4 speed I don't need a lot of power but enough to have fun and sound good It will be daily driven to school and back so not too much. Id also like to know if anyone can suggest a good cam I here all kinds of mixed opinions on comp cams vs Hughes but I wanted to go with Hughes whiplash cam if possible. Thank you for all of your time and patience im fairly new to this I am also only 17

My son and I recently shoehorned a 73 440 into a 73 Duster which is basically the same block as a 383, just different displacement. I could write a book on all the issues that you'll come across but a lot of my issues arrised due to Schumacher Create Industries having been about of business during our build. Someone bought Schumacher and I see now they have a lot of the parts that I had to make or retrofit from the closest matches. If I were you, I'd port the cylinder heads because you're going to have plenty of power in a 383 without spending $1000+ on heads and you're going to get crappy gas mileage regardless. Porting takes time but can save you money. Be sure to replace your torsion bars with heavier duty ones due to the extra weight of the engine and the rear end will likely need to be changed out with I believe an 8 3/4 rear axle hosing. Also, did the 383 come with a transmission because you might need a heavier duty transmission. Mine came w/ an A727 but the gears were rusted out so it had to be rebuilt. Anyway, I'm glad to chat if you want to message me to exchange phone numbers. This is a massive project for a beginner as I was but ultimately worth it since my son, now 18, has the confidence and know how to repair just about anything.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

My son and I recently shoehorned a 73 440 into a 73 Duster which is basically the same block as a 383, just different displacement. I could write a book on all the issues that you'll come across but a lot of my issues arrised due to Schumacher Create Industries having been about of business during our build. Someone bought Schumacher and I see now they have a lot of the parts that I had to make or retrofit from the closest matches. If I were you, I'd port the cylinder heads because you're going to have plenty of power in a 383 without spending $1000+ on heads and you're going to get crappy gas mileage regardless. Porting takes time but can save you money. Be sure to replace your torsion bars with heavier duty ones due to the extra weight of the engine and the rear end will likely need to be changed out with I believe an 8 3/4 rear axle hosing. Also, did the 383 come with a transmission because you might need a heavier duty transmission. Mine came w/ an A727 but the gears were rusted out so it had to be rebuilt. Anyway, I'm glad to chat if you want to message me to exchange phone numbers. This is a massive project for a beginner as I was but ultimately worth it since my son, now 18, has the confidence and know how to repair just about anything.

440 & 383 are not basically the same block.
They're different in deck heights. Did you mean 400 ?

 

[Carnut68]

440 source heads are chink heads.
Edelbrock are made in America.

Once the cylinder head and head gasket are off, you need a magnetic bridge and dial indicator. Zero out the gauge like pictured below with the gauge set low in the bridge for full plunger extension ability. The. Slide it over the the center of the piston and watch the need on the gauge rotate around and measure.

View attachment 1716190216

A straight edge and good feeler gauges will work. Get the piston to TDC. You just need a very close estimate of where that piston is at TDC. Then you can figure out the c/r with what head gaskets and heads. Another option for heads is Marsh Performance. They will build your heads to what you need as far springs ect. Buying heads through a shop is better than bolting on without being checked out. PRH for your cam and he knows something about 383s.

 

[BENJAMIN ERIC JONES]

440 & 383 are not basically the same block.
They're different in deck heights. Did you mean 400 ?

I just meant you have the same issues with putting a 440 in an A body as a 383, they are both big blocks and require the same **** to get them in an A body.

 

[rumblefish360]

I just meant you have the same issues with putting a 440 in an A body as a 383, they are both big blocks and require the same **** to get them in an A body.

That’s true generally speaking with a slight fitting advantage to the low deck. I did like my 400 in my ‘71 Duster. Lots-O-fun!

 

[Joey N]

Okay so most the info I've received is that I should only go aluminum if I need that preformance otherwise stick with the 516's and port em does anyone know roughly the cost that would be or the cost to port 440 stealth heads? I think the power goal that I'm looking to get is achievable by just doing intake headers and a cam but if I can do something to the heads aswell that would be nice and can I have get some of yalls opinions on cams for this build based on what you know about what I'll be putting it on what fo you think is s reasonable cam choice

 

[MOPARMAGA]

Okay so most the info I've received is that I should only go aluminum if I need that preformance otherwise stick with the 516's and port em does anyone know roughly the cost that would be or the cost to port 440 stealth heads? I think the power goal that I'm looking to get is achievable by just doing intake headers and a cam but if I can do something to the heads aswell that would be nice and can I have get some of yalls opinions on cams for this build based on what you know about what I'll be putting it on what fo you think is s reasonable cam choice

I had 516s on a 400 years ago with the Mopar performance 474 purple cam in a charger.
I would actually just run those heads with a cam around that size, something in the 230s duration at .050 and enjoy the car.
Pick up parts for the next build.
Also the 440 source heads will flow enough for what you'll want out of the box.
The only things you should do is gaskets/ port match. I would use the Hughes stainless steel valley pan on any head and scribe that port size on your 516s, port to that size and blend it in

 

[273]

I'd use the stock heads as long you don't need to put to much $$$ into them.

 

[Joey N]

The guy that had it last didn't tighten down the 2 middle bolts on the rocker arm shaft and so when I go tit it was loose and I think that's the reason that the cam was lobed is that shaft still useable or could it have gotten warped?

 

[MOPARMAGA]

The guy that had it last didn't tighten down the 2 middle bolts on the rocker arm shaft and so when I go tit it was loose and I think that's the reason that the cam was lobed is that shaft still useable or could it have gotten warped?

Yeah replace that **** for sure

 

[Joey N]

I had 516s on a 400 years ago with the Mopar performance 474 purple cam in a charger.
I would actually just run those heads with a cam around that size, something in the 230s duration at .050 and enjoy the car.
Pick up parts for the next build.
Also the 440 source heads will flow enough for what you'll want out of the box.
The only things you should do is gaskets/ port match. I would use the Hughes stainless steel valley pan on any head and scribe that port size on your 516s, port to that size and blend it in

I dont know of when they bored it over if they touched the heads should I just run em and put a new cam headers valley and call it a day?

 

[MOPARMAGA]

I dont know of when they bored it over if they touched the heads should I just run em and put a new cam headers valley and call it a day?

Yes, exactly! It would be good to have the valve springs checked out and or replaced to what the cam manufacturer wants. They need to match up pressure correctly or it will be bad fast.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

Speaking from direct experience - If the pistons are .100 in the hole angle milling a set of Stealth heads from the big side of combustion chamber .040 will bring the compression to 9.3-9.5:1 with a .040-.051 head gasket. You could do better with a little more work but 9.something CR will make 450hp no problem.

If you add up the cost of doing guides, big valves, seals, hardened seats, porting consumables, decking, magnaflux + pressure testing you will not be too far from the cost of a cheap set of aluminum heads. A stage two ported set of 906/452/346 won't even get close to the Stealth heads out of the box without sacrificing reliability.

As mentioned the E Street heads are also a good option if you want a less traditional appearance.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

Speaking from direct experience - If the pistons are .100 in the hole angle milling a set of Stealth heads from the big side of combustion chamber .040 will bring the compression to 9.3-9.5:1 with a .040-.051 head gasket. You could do better with a little more work but 9.something CR will make 450hp no problem.

If you add up the cost of doing guides, big valves, seals, hardened seats, porting consumables, decking, magnaflux + pressure testing you will not be too far from the cost of a cheap set of aluminum heads. A stage two ported set of 906/452/346 won't even get close to the Stealth heads out of the box without sacrificing reliability.

As mentioned the E Street heads are also a good option if you want a less traditional appearance.

All true.

 

[Carnut68]

I dont know of when they bored it over if they touched the heads should I just run em and put a new cam headers valley and call it a day?

Have you checked to see how far the pistons are in the hole? That for the most part dictates your next move.

 

[Joey N]

I had to order the part because know one I know has it most of my friends don't even have cars and if they do they're new so I guess it's something that will help for future builds too

Have you checked to see how far the pistons are in the hole? That for the most part dictates your next move.

 

[Joey N]

Speaking from direct experience - If the pistons are .100 in the hole angle milling a set of Stealth heads from the big side of combustion chamber .040 will bring the compression to 9.3-9.5:1 with a .040-.051 head gasket. You could do better with a little more work but 9.something CR will make 450hp no problem.

If you add up the cost of doing guides, big valves, seals, hardened seats, porting consumables, decking, magnaflux + pressure testing you will not be too far from the cost of a cheap set of aluminum heads. A stage two ported set of 906/452/346 won't even get close to the Stealth heads out of the box without sacrificing reliability.

As mentioned the E Street heads are also a good option if you want a less traditional appearance.

Okay so are you suggesting going for some aluminum heads? And based on all my now known knowledge I can't just throw the heads right on I have to get them checked? Some of this confuses me of course so I'm not trying to be real hard to work with it isn't my goal to annoy all of you I really appreciate the help wish I had someone in my family that knew stuff

 

[rumblefish360]

Okay so are you suggesting going for some aluminum heads? And based on all my now known knowledge I can't just throw the heads right on I have to get them checked? Some of this confuses me of course so I'm not trying to be real hard to work with it isn't my goal to annoy all of you I really appreciate the help wish I had someone in my family that knew stuff

Do ether or….

Run the stock head with a valve spring swap

Or

Grab a set of ether Stealth or Edelbrock heads and run them.
Check your own head by filling the ports with alcohol and see if the fluid level goes down in and past the chamber. If it leaks, machinist. If the don’t leak, run’em.

 

[Carnut68]

I had to order the part because know one I know has it most of my friends don't even have cars and if they do they're new so I guess it's something that will help for future builds too

All you need is a straight edge and some feeler gauges. Get the piston to TDC lay the straight edge over the cylinder, measure. Check out the heads sold by Marsh Performance. $1050 pr/valves. You tell them what kind of cam so they can get you correct springs. Heads come to you ready to run. The are an engine shop. If it's not in your budget nothing wrong with using your old heads, gasket match heads to intake, get someone to check spring pressure, but if you have to spend more than $500 on them it's just a waste.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Regarding Trick Flow not recommending their heads for anything under 4.320 bore. The 383 bore is only .070" smaller. You're tellin me that .035" per side somehow keeps the Trick Flows from working on a 383? I'm callin horse crap. If the gurus wanna start talkin about valve shrouding and all that other crap to make themselves sound smart, I'm callin horse crap on them too.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

Okay so are you suggesting going for some aluminum heads? And based on all my now known knowledge I can't just throw the heads right on I have to get them checked? Some of this confuses me of course so I'm not trying to be real hard to work with it isn't my goal to annoy all of you I really appreciate the help wish I had someone in my family that knew stuff

You are all good. We all had to start somewhere.

What you decide to do is based on your level of commitment of both time and money. Engine work can be a slippery slope. On one hand you have to decide where to draw the line with your upgrades. On the pther you might fond something you don't like and then things snowball based on that perspective.

If it was me I would remove the cylinder heads and verify the deck height aka distance between the block deck vs piston at TDC. Based on deck height you can select the appropriate cylinder head combustion chamber volume and head gasket thickness to get the compression ratio either a) 9.5:1 for cast iron or b) 10.5:1 for aluminum heads.
It will be difficult to provide any further advice on ypur combination without having the CR nailed down.

For the amount of work you are doing the engine might as well come out to work on it. If you do not have experience or interest in degreeing the cam it might be better to work with a shop to get that step 100% correct along with measuring the CR, etc. Again, this is all dependent on your preference.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

Regarding Trick Flow not recommending their heads for anything under 4.320 bore. The 383 bore is only .070" smaller. You're tellin me that .035" per side somehow keeps the Trick Flows from working on a 383? I'm callin horse crap. If the gurus wanna start talkin about valve shrouding and all that other crap to make themselves sound smart, I'm callin horse crap on them too.

How far can you open a 2.20" valve at a 15° angle before hitting the cylinder wall on a 4.25ish bore? It would be interesting to mock one up and find out.

I ran into the bore with the intake valve at a little over .800 lift with a 2.29" valve at 4.375" bore size. That was after heavily notching the bore on that block. I ended up going back to a 2.250" and am at the minimum radial clearance.

The other thing that you can run into is chamber footprint overlapping the bore.

A good example of this is the Indy 383 -13 heads vs. their 572 -13 heads. Each head is made to fit a minimum bore size with respect to chamber footprint, valve size, etc.

Aside from valve shrouding it is more of a packaging issue IMO.

Looking at many of the lower end heads, the valve unshroudong needs to start in the chamber. 511" in the GTS had that treatment along with some hooveling in the bowl.

That engine met my expectations on the dyno and so far is very promising during sanctioned and unsanctioned accelration contests between like minded enthusiasts. : D


A

 

[Joey N]

All you need is a straight edge and some feeler gauges. Get the piston to TDC lay the straight edge over the cylinder, measure. Check out the heads sold by Marsh Performance. $1050 pr/valves. You tell them what kind of cam so they can get you correct springs. Heads come to you ready to run. The are an engine shop. If it's not in your budget nothing wrong with using your old heads, gasket match heads to intake, get someone to check spring pressure, but if you have to spend more than $500 on them it's just a waste.

Ill run over to oreily's today and get the feeler gauges so ill figure it out and send the results

 

[Joey N]

Sorry for crazy delay it’s been raining here a lot and the engine is outside under tarps holes have rags in them tool to measure TDC came but I don’t know how to spin the crank shaft by hand/tool here are some photos of the pistons and heads

 

[Joey N]