392 stroker oiling problems

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Yeah it is pretty fustrating when she comes apart. I am past the plastigage stage. What is the difference between lifter bore bushing an the tube? doesnt it acomplish the same thing? I have the right side tubed an the other side blocked. Would this not be the same? The two main I lost were 2 an 4. On the top I am running W2 heads an solid roller lifters, harlon sharp offset rockers an a 630 lift comp cam. How many horses can you expect to get out of a stock block? I know on the chev I had to go to a motown block because the walls were not thick enough. You can see more of my sport at www.ussbaracing.com Think if I can figure out this oiling I will definitly have an advantage the way our rules are written. I did order a book the other day but still waiting for it to get here. Could you explain how you plumb in the cross over tube on your motors? got to go. thanks
 
Bearing 2 and 4? Is your cam grooved on the 2 and 4 journals? What bearing part numbers do you run? Are they full groove or 3/4? It's odd that 3 would not be affected if 2 was. So I may be wrong there. I went to the site for your deal...cool sounding stuff. What do you do with the throttle during the race? On full and off, or pretty much full and leave it, or do you modulate it a lot? How long are you on the throttle for the race? How long are the races? What does the oil pan look like? How many quarts does it hold? Do you turn in both directions? Does the engine or pan have an oil scraper? Is there any restriction to the heads in terms of oiling? Head studs or bolts? Are the lifter full body, or cut out for oil flow? (p/n would help)

I dont expect a factory block to live for very long making over 600 naturally aspirated. I wouldnt put a time figure on it, but expect to replace it a bit earlier than a better block. I don't usually get anywhere near that in my builds. If you have little done in terms of oil control, and those little devils pull 3-7Gs in the race, you got issues...lol.

For this crossover mod, you are basically re-routing the oil to feed the #1 main first, instead of last. So the resulting oil in that right galley is slower for the other mains. A 3/4 groove race type bearing may help solve this issue too. King p/n MB5385HP would do nicely I think. Right now, you are feeding the #1 main from the right gallery, and the left lifter galley from the same place. Without tubing the left, you have oil leaking past your lifters (normal in any engine), and the mains feeding the rods are also pulling oil, so the right gallery is a high velocity spot in terms of oil pathways. Fully grooved mains make things harder for that galley to get the volume thru there, especially if your rod clearances are a little loose for rpm (say .0025-.003). The end result is less oil to the feeds between the pressure passage "into" the block, and the #1 main saddle. Or the #2,3, and 4 mains. The mod is done like this: First, the passage in the right galley that feed the #1 saddle has to be blocked. The right galley at the front of the block is threaded for a NPT plug. The threaded plug is deep enought so seal off the #1 main feed from the right galley. Then, you drill a hole and tap it for a 1/4NPT 45° elbow into the right galley (thru the tube) just behind the oil passage bulge leading up to the deck surface. In the small flat in front of the #8 intake lifter bore. A similar hole is drilled and tapped just in front of the left side head oil feed passage, just behind the #1 intake lifter bore. Using aluminum tubing and ferrules/fittings, the two 1/4NPT fittings are connected. It is CRITICAL that the line have smooth, moderate bends and not "meander". That's about it. I would tube the left side before you do this, and make sure you drill out the left galley feed from the #1 main saddle to 9/32 or 5/16s, whatever the other main feed passages from the right galley already are. They had better not be factory drilled size (like7/32 IIRC) . You have to have them at least 9/32 or 5/16. You also want to make sure your crank journals have zero taper. Not .0001-.0005. ZERO. And install a scraper above that pan. If the heads have rollers, and the sump isnt huge (like 9-10qts in the pan) I would restrict the top end oiling too. Otherwise you're simply pumping a ton of oil up there, and G forces will keep it there for too long. That was one of the issues with the MEW engine. With rollers you dont need a huge amountof volume. Reducing it by 20% wont hurt, and will put it down to the crank and rods. What do the rod bearings look like? The back sides too... Again, King Bearing CR8008HP...
 
Sorry, I was running out of room...lol Lifter bore bushings correct the angular mess that is Mopar small blocks. At least as good as you can get with it. Tubing only addresses the oil leaking past the lifters. It does nothing else. Bushigns do that better, and add power. It also allows much tighter oil control, and use of more types of lifters and higher lifts than a non-tubed block. Tubing costs $200 for my customers. Lifter bushings are $500 added to the machine bill, and I have no other time involved. It's cheaper than quality rockers when you break everything down.
 
I didnt mean that 3 was ok. They all were starved an 2 an 4 were so bad they spun. The second time you could really see it bad on number 1 so think that this crossover tube should fix that problem. Seems weird that it gets the mains an not the rods or maybe have just caught it before they get it. The bearings were clevitte an they were fully grooved. What is the difference between using full an 3/4 grooved? Wouldnt you have more oil with a fully grooved bearing where i am having starvation issues? Where do you get these KIng bearings? I can not feel or see any grooves on the cam. The lifters are full body an I use arp studs on the heads. Both times ever thing looks good on the top end. I see you say cutt the oil back there 20%. How should I go about this? I have wondered about the oilpan. The pan is a stef an is pretty deep. It has a screen in it but the windage tray i have wont fit in this pan so i have not been using one. When you say crank scrapper you do mean windage tray? I am runnig a dry dump so all the oil is stored in the barrel. It is a colman can an has 2 screens in it. it hold about 12 quarts an has a sight widow. When I tear the motor down there is 1 1/2 to 2 quarts left in side. This is about right for a dry sump system? Thinking might need some kind of low profile road race pan. What kind of pan would you recomend? Where do you find a 340 pan? I have looked around an cant seem to find anything out there. These boats are hard on moters because there is always a pull on them. A course consists of a series of islands. Every different time you race at a course the rotation changes. A rotation is any where from 45 to 60 seconds. You get 3 qualifying rounds with the fastest guy going last in elimanations. Elimanations start with the top 16 in every class, then 8,4,2,1. You are pretty much wide open all the time although you might peddle her a little in the early qualification rounds till you have the rotation down. Turning both ways is why I was thinking of some sort of roadrace pan. Havent got any ideas on how many Gs. There are 3 class, 365cubic inch, 412cubic inch, an then an open class. I have 2 early 360 blocks is why i was asking how many horses a stock block could take. I was thinking of a 360 for a back up or a 408 some day. Would 4 bolt caps help these or would i just be wasteing my time? There are alot of vidios on that web site so you can get a idea of what I am trying to do with this moter. Have to go. Thanks for the help so far. Think I am learning something !!
 
What was the main and rod bearing clearances? with 3/4, you have more load carrying capacity than full groove. Its the flat where the oil forms the wedge. Not the groove. The wedge holds the weight, the groove just passes it to the rod bearings. You sound like the rods are fine, but the mains are starving or cant handle the load. It may be the wrong type of bearing for your use, and they simply gave up. #5 is much wider, so more load capacity and no damage. You got plenty of pressure, and decent volume with the passages enlarged, so I dont think 3/4 groove will hurt you, and they wil be better able to handle the load. If your main bearing clearance is more than .0025, or your rods are over .0025, you may want to tighten that a little. Rods I would want .0025 on, no larger, and mains I would want .0002-.0025, again, no larger. Taper of any kind will hurt you. So make sure when they turn the crank they eliminate any taper they find. To cut oil to the top, you simply drill the deck surface where the oil passage exits, and either go large enough to thread in a Holley jet, or (my choice) use a hex type grub screw drilled to the size you want and deep enough to be recessed in the deck surface. Windage trays are not scrapers. A windage tray only comes near the outer edge of the crank counterweights. A scraper bolts to the block and is fit to the rotating assembly, and literally pulls the oil trapped in teh airstream away and directs it into the pan. You should have one... For an oil pan, when I need something special, I use Canton. They are in CT, and I can go there to see stuff and pick it up. I would pick thier brain on a custom deal for you, with baffles or traps and a windage tray, and then add a scraper. I'm not really up on dry sumps, but if you have 1.5qts that drained out after shut down, I would think you might be a little thin on volume where you need it and tightening the clearances might help. I would expect at least 2qts to drain back after it shuts off... but again, it's getting beyond my expertise at that point. I have only personally used King once. And that came thru a freind that got them. but, I called and there is a place in FL that stocks teh rods, and can have the mains in a few days drop shipped if needed. Pro Power Performance Parts, (954)491-6988. Kings are a much more consistent bearing than typical Federal Moguls or Clevite. My buddy uses them in very high output import engines. I know a few builders that use them exclusively. Again, I usually dont get to the levels where I feel stuff like that is needed.
 
I will try your 3/4 bearings next time. Have always used full but finding there is alot to learn about mopar. Never have used a scrapper before an want to look into that to along with a different pan an a windage tray. How tight are you torching the mains? How tight on the rods? Do you know anyone that is familer with a dry sump set up on these that I could talk to?
 
I'd have to check my notes.. It's the ARP spec..for some reason 75lb feet in 3 steps sounds right? I havent done an LA in almost a year. '07 was body work and big blocks for side work. I pick the 422" block up tonight, but it wont be together for another couple weeks ate least. If you can talk to him, Ryan at Shady Dell is (to me) the authority on small block Mopars. He's way beyond me in experience, and builds a lot of high hp extended rpm engines. Otherwise, Canton has a good tech line too. You can also talk to Muscle Motors or Best Machine. Both have decent reps with the types of equipment you're running, but may be difficult to get info out of without spending some money with them (my personal exp anyway...lol). You can also buy any circle track or road race engine build book. Even if it's not Mopar based, the systems function is the same. I think you're leaving a little power on the table by not running that scraper.
 
Yes I would like to talk with Ryan. Do you have an email or phone number for him? Bet by now your thinking if I set it a little closer to the computar you will be able to see it. Just trying to learn as much as possible before I put it back together. What kind of oil do you run? I have been starting with rotella. If you would check them torques I would appreciate it. I am useing arp to.
 
90 pounds, three steps with ARP lube, or 130 pounds (I'd go four steps for that) with straight 30wt oil. I use Valvoline VR1 20-50 (the not street legal stuff) in some, and VR1 straight 30 in everything else I think might have cam issues due to lobe design. A roller cam, I would say any straight 30 performance oil to seat the rings, and sythetic right after that would do fine.
 
I was wondering about moving the the oil pressure line to get a better reading. Have you ever did this or heard of any one doing it? would also like to talk to Ryan about this dry sump set up?
 
I've never heard of it. In any case, presssure is pressure to me. You can't measure rate of flow, only the resitance to it the pressure reading indicates. High pressure with stock passages means it's restrictive and hurting volume. Lower steady pressure with larger feeds means a higher volume getting to the bearings. That's all I care about really.
 
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