440-1 flow numbers

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ValiantS said:
It has all but happened...Let's go!
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71Demon528 said:
I received my first lesson using a flow bench on Sunday at the Bowman Performance shop out of Export, PA. Tim has taught me a great deal of information regarding engine building and this is just one more thing I had the privilege of being taught. The 440-1 heads we flowed were my own 440-1 heads that will be going on my 540. Tim ported these heads back in 2015. They never were put on a flow bench and the engine was never dynod. We only have track results using these heads. Tim bought this flow bench about 2 months ago and since my engine is being prepped for assembly, he wanted to throw the heads on the bench and see what numbers they put up. We compared my heads flow numbers to another set of -1s that belongs to a teammate. Tim is also in the process of building himself a 572 BBM with 440-1 heads, which are currently on the porting bench. This winter we have a set of Edelbrock Victor MW heads which I’m going to be bold enough to port with Tim’s guidance. It will be cool to flow them when we are finished to see how the port job compares to a -1. I had the privilege of porting my father in laws BBC heads last summer. Tim finished the job for me once I got so far but it showed me how difficult, tedious, and time consuming cylinder head porting is. Experience and knowledge is everything. Tim and John Cadamore were great friends who spoke daily about engine work they were both doing. Tim was looking forward to sharing feedback with John after he purchased the flow bench. Sadly that never happened.

Biggest takeaway, which has been relayed many times on the internet, the flow bench is another tool to use for engine building, just like an engine dyno. The data is only as useful as the person interpreting it. So what’s next for these heads? Assembly!

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71, I am looking forward to your results, and just how much the build surpasses the horsepower i got. Care to share details of what you want to build?
 
I have looked at quite a few of -1, -13 and Victor MW flow sheets. They all seem to go 370-390 CFM on the intake @.700-.800 and the exhaust goes 265-285 CFM. Depending on the setup they are good for 750-900hp. The higher RPM (8000+) 500-540" engines seem to make the most HP.

Thank you for sharing data!
 
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Flow numbers from my 440-1 and 572-13 heads
PXL_20220801_210425568.jpg
 
gregsdart said:
71, I am looking forward to your results, and just how much the build surpasses the horsepower i got. Care to share details of what you want to build?
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Of course Greg! I highly doubt this build will surpass your current engine, that thing makes a ton of power. And with me only running the -1 head, I won't even come close. One day, just one day maybe, I will get the 572-13 head.

This engine will be 541"
Indy aluminum low deck block
14.8:1 compression
4.503 bore
4.250 stroke molnar crank
6.700 molnar rod
Indy 440-1 heads
Manley SS valves
Indy single plane intake w 1" HVH spacer
112 race gas
APD 1175 Dominator
Jesel 1.6 rockers
Jesel belt drive
Cam is 285/296 @ .050
111 LSA
.776/.752 gross lift with 1.6 rocker

I was at my engine builders today cleaning more parts to get ready for assembly. One more day in the shop of cleaning/prepping parts, and we should be ready to start.

The previous engine was a 528" with same heads, cam, intake. After breaking the 20 year old eagle crankshaft last season and causing other damage, we spent the last year getting things ready for the 541".
The 528 ran well and treated me very good. Best of 5.43 at 125mph in the 1/8 at 2825 lbs. Haven't ran that combo in the 1/4 to give a 1/4 best.
 
71Demon528 said:
Of course Greg! I highly doubt this build will surpass your current engine, that thing makes a ton of power. And with me only running the -1 head, I won't even come close. One day, just one day maybe, I will get the 572-13 head.

This engine will be 541"
Indy aluminum low deck block
14.8:1 compression
4.503 bore
4.250 stroke molnar crank
6.700 molnar rod
Indy 440-1 heads
Manley SS valves
Indy single plane intake w 1" HVH spacer
112 race gas
APD 1175 Dominator
Jesel 1.6 rockers
Jesel belt drive
Cam is 285/296 @ .050
111 LSA
.776/.752 gross lift with 1.6 rocker

I was at my engine builders today cleaning more parts to get ready for assembly. One more day in the shop of cleaning/prepping parts, and we should be ready to start.

The previous engine was a 528" with same heads, cam, intake. After breaking the 20 year old eagle crankshaft last season and causing other damage, we spent the last year getting things ready for the 541".
The 528 ran well and treated me very good. Best of 5.43 at 125mph in the 1/8 at 2825 lbs. Haven't ran that combo in the 1/4 to give a 1/4 best.
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That's going to do some badassing .
Good stuff RJ
 
Jeremiah (jd) said:
I have looked at quite a few of -1, -13 and Victor MW flow sheets. They all seem to go 370-390 CFM on the intake @.700-.800 and the exhaust goes 265-285 CFM. Depending on the setup they are good for 750-900hp. The higher RPM (8000+) 500-540" engines seem to make the most HP.

Thank you for sharing data!
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Bobzilla said:
Does he have any comparison numbers on the same bench from a non-ported 440-1 head?
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When I was there today, he said he won't even waste the electricity to flow a set of unported 440-1 heads because they are so bad out of the box. He dug through old files today clear back to the 90s. I can't remember the exact numbers from the one set of unported 440-1 heads he found flow numbers on (using the same bench), but they were very low. So low that I can't even remember the numbers lol. Tim has many years experience with flow benches and engine dynos. The flow bench he bought he used for many years at our machinist's shop.

We also looked at 572-13 heads that were CNC and he finish ported, wow those things are BAD A$$. I don't want to misspeak about the flow numbers he got from a 572-13 head, but it was substantially better (obviously) than my -1 heads. I want to say peak was around 420 cfm at .800 lift. No wonder they make such good power. He said they needed a good bit of work to get there. Every set of heads out of the box that enters his shop needs a good bit of work to make good power, even when they are CNC. He said that includes B1 heads, they are no better out of the box.
 
71Demon528 said:
When I was there today, he said he won't even waste the electricity to flow a set of unported 440-1 heads because they are so bad out of the box. He dug through old files today clear back to the 90s. I can't remember the exact numbers from the one set of unported 440-1 heads he found flow numbers on (using the same bench), but they were very low. So low that I can't even remember the numbers lol. Tim has many years experience with flow benches and engine dynos. The flow bench he bought he used for many years at our machinist's shop.

We also looked at 572-13 heads that were CNC and he finish ported, wow those things are BAD A$$. I don't want to misspeak about the flow numbers he got from a 572-13 head, but it was substantially better (obviously) than my -1 heads. I want to say peak was around 420 cfm at .800 lift. No wonder they make such good power. He said they needed a good bit of work to get there. Every set of heads out of the box that enters his shop needs a good bit of work to make good power, even when they are CNC. He said that includes B1 heads, they are no better out of the box.
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The heads I am referring to all had 2.20-2.250 intake valves. It seems like the 2.300 intake valves really picks up some power.

Thank you for sharing that info. It seems like the outlier heads are cnc and in addition hand ported to breach the 400cfm mark.

Of course there are people out there that claim 5,000,000 CFM from their Edelbrock RPM castings. Most of those combinations never make it to a track.

I think you need at least a 4.400" bore to go .800 net lift with a 2.30" intake.

All of my junk is 4.375" bore and 4.25/4.15" stroke.

I keep saying the last 400 block was my last stock block deal. Then I buy another 400 block.
 
Jeremiah (jd) said:
The heads I am referring to all had 2.20-2.250 intake valves. It seems like the 2.300 intake valves really picks up some power.

Thank you for sharing that info. It seems like the outlier heads are cnc and in addition hand ported to breach the 400cfm mark.

Of course there are people out there that claim 5,000,000 CFM from their Edelbrock RPM castings. Most of those combinations never make it to a track.

I think you need at least a 4.400" bore to go .800 net lift with a 2.30" intake.

All of my junk is 4.375" bore and 4.25/4.15" stroke.

I keep saying the last 400 block was my last stock block deal. Then I buy another 400 block.
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Your welcome, happy to share.
Just like sharing something that I thought was a cool and interesting experience. I really enjoy learning and am very privileged to have great people close to me who are willing to teach me.

If you ever buy an aftermarket block, I would immediately punch it out to a 4.500 bore. When we took mine from 4.3750 to 4.500, we saw very good gains.
 
71Demon528 said:
When I was there today, he said he won't even waste the electricity to flow a set of unported 440-1 heads because they are so bad out of the box. He dug through old files today clear back to the 90s. I can't remember the exact numbers from the one set of unported 440-1 heads he found flow numbers on (using the same bench), but they were very low. So low that I can't even remember the numbers lol. Tim has many years experience with flow benches and engine dynos. The flow bench he bought he used for many years at our machinist's shop.

We also looked at 572-13 heads that were CNC and he finish ported, wow those things are BAD A$$. I don't want to misspeak about the flow numbers he got from a 572-13 head, but it was substantially better (obviously) than my -1 heads. I want to say peak was around 420 cfm at .800 lift. No wonder they make such good power. He said they needed a good bit of work to get there. Every set of heads out of the box that enters his shop needs a good bit of work to make good power, even when they are CNC. He said that includes B1 heads, they are no better out of the box.
Click to expand...
I've seen the -13 heads flow in the 420's.
 
Jeremiah (jd) said:
The heads I am referring to all had 2.20-2.250 intake valves. It seems like the 2.300 intake valves really picks up some power.

Thank you for sharing that info. It seems like the outlier heads are cnc and in addition hand ported to breach the 400cfm mark.

Of course there are people out there that claim 5,000,000 CFM from their Edelbrock RPM castings. Most of those combinations never make it to a track.

I think you need at least a 4.400" bore to go .800 net lift with a 2.30" intake.

All of my junk is 4.375" bore and 4.25/4.15" stroke.

I keep saying the last 400 block was my last stock block deal. Then I buy another 400 block.
Click to expand...
I 'only' am using the 2.25" and think it would make over 1000 with a couple of tweaks but, yes the 2.30' would show MINOR improvement. I'm using the TR 2x4 but, I feel if it's on a RB block and the 3x single is used it'd make more power. A custom intake 'done right' would be above that. I'm not sure at what point the head gets critically thin where it'll crack. My heads aren't done to that level FWIW.
 
ValiantS said:
I 'only' am using the 2.25" and think it would make over 1000 with a couple of tweaks but, yes the 2.30' would show MINOR improvement. I'm using the TR 2x4 but, I feel if it's on a RB block and the 3x single is used it'd make more power. A custom intake 'done right' would be above that. I'm not sure at what point the head gets critically thin where it'll crack. My heads aren't done to that level FWIW.
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Thanks for sharing Sean. You’ll have to keep us informed of the direction you go. Either way, it’s gonna be cool to see how fast it goes.
 
71Demon528 said:
Thanks for sharing Sean. You’ll have to keep us informed of the direction you go. Either way, it’s gonna be cool to see how fast it goes.
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I was probing the 'big' 460 Predators I have to gage the MCS and learned how SMALL they are. They'll definitely hit a brick wall without some welding. But that wall is over 150HP more than I'd expect the -13 can be. I'm looking for the flow sheet MCH has for the 2.25 -1 cnc program which is on a smaller bore than 4.500"
 
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