440 heat issues...help!

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Hold on a sec....am I reading wrong? With crank in A slot you are then putting the A at 12 oclock?? Should be the dot at 12 right? Or am I high?


1969Fish said:
Yes it's a 3104 comp timing gear set. The crank gear is in slot marked A. When 6 is firing the A on crank gear is at 12 o'clock and the dot on cam gear is at 6 o'clock.
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Correct. The cam gear dot is at 12 o'clock and the crank gear A is at 12 oclock. With it setting like that #1 is firing.
 
There is an A where the crank key goes. Then counter clockwise a few teeth is the A you line up with the dot on the cam gear.
 
1969Fish said:
There is an A where the crank key goes. Then counter clockwise a few teeth is the A you line up with the dot on the cam gear.
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Oh ok, the two "A"'s had me confused. With Dads 273 the comp crank gear had 3 slots marked, and there was a "dot" as well.

Good luck, I will follow along in silence...lol
 
Well...I think I have found the gremlin, after decking the block 20 thou and going to a 1.6 rocker a few the pushrods were hitting..one was the intake..I figure that it was holding it open causing it to push exhaust back up the intake. So shall I order a thick walled 5/16 or pull heads and drill the holes out and stick with the 3/8? I am still not sure exactly how the process of drilling them out will work..
 
1969Fish said:
Well...I think I have found the gremlin, after decking the block 20 thou and going to a 1.6 rocker a few the pushrods were hitting..one was the intake..I figure that it was holding it open causing it to push exhaust back up the intake. So shall I order a thick walled 5/16 or pull heads and drill the holes out and stick with the 3/8? I am still not sure exactly how the process of drilling them out will work..
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No, I think that can't be it.The pushrod is most likely rubbing at 60% lift or more.
The valve couldn't have hung open or it would have spit out the pushrod, as the lifter crested the lobe and started back down. So it's it's just rubbing.
For your scenario to work,it would have to be at or near split overlap, when the intake is opening and the exhaust is closing, and by that time IMO the rubbing on an exhaust,would long have been finished, and rubbing on an intake would not yet have started.

But that got me thinking. I remembered that you said it didn't run very good and was popping through the carb, in addition to the overheat. Well it could very well be, exhaust backing up into the intake. But it would have to be for a different reason. Only three things I can think of; incorrect valve timing, incorrect valve lash, or a plugged exhaust.
-Earlier I think I said split overlap is easy to check with the intake off, and the timing cover/balancer still on.Just pick cylinder 1 or 6 whichever is easiest to reach. Put that cylinder at TDC Exhaust, which is actually split overlap. Put a short straightedge across the lifters. Reposition the crank until the lifters even up,and the straightedge lays flat across them. Then read the timing mark. On a single pattern cam the timing will almost always fall within a few degrees of TDC. On a split pattern cam it might be a little further off, but I imagine no more than about 8*. I use this as a shortcut, when I suspect a problem with cam timing. If I can't find the mark where I expect it to be; off comes the T-cover and out comes the degree wheel.I also use it after the cam is degreed in to see where it fell in, to verify I didn't screw up the cam install.
-As to the valve lash, what I really mean is that the intakes are not closing fully or are leaking.A LeakDown test will prove it eitherway. If the exhausts don't spend enough time on the seats, they will get goodNhot. With alcohol, I doubt this would be a concern,especially at the rpms you were likely operating at.
-And a plugged exhaust is probably not on the table either.I just mentioned that for guys with dirtbikes that might someday stumble across this thread...
 
AJ/FormS said:
No, I think that can't be it.The pushrod is most likely rubbing at 60% lift or more.
The valve couldn't have hung open or it would have spit out the pushrod, as the lifter crested the lobe and started back down. So it's it's just rubbing.
For your scenario to work,it would have to be at or near split overlap, when the intake is opening and the exhaust is closing, and by that time IMO the rubbing on an exhaust,would long have been finished, and rubbing on an intake would not yet have started.

But that got me thinking. I remembered that you said it didn't run very good and was popping through the carb, in addition to the overheat. Well it could very well be, exhaust backing up into the intake. But it would have to be for a different reason. Only three things I can think of; incorrect valve timing, incorrect valve lash, or a plugged exhaust.
-Earlier I think I said split overlap is easy to check with the intake off, and the timing cover/balancer still on.Just pick cylinder 1 or 6 whichever is easiest to reach. Put that cylinder at TDC Exhaust, which is actually split overlap. Put a short straightedge across the lifters. Reposition the crank until the lifters even up,and the straightedge lays flat across them. Then read the timing mark. On a single pattern cam the timing will almost always fall within a few degrees of TDC. On a split pattern cam it might be a little further off, but I imagine no more than about 8*. I use this as a shortcut, when I suspect a problem with cam timing. If I can't find the mark where I expect it to be; off comes the T-cover and out comes the degree wheel.I also use it after the cam is degreed in to see where it fell in, to verify I didn't screw up the cam install.
-As to the valve lash, what I really mean is that the intakes are not closing fully or are leaking.An LD test will prove it eitherway. If the exhausts don't spend enough time on the seats, they will get goodNhot. With alcohol, I doubt this would be a concern,especially at the rpms you were likely operating at.
-And a plugged exhaust is probably not on the table either.I just mentioned that for guys with dirtbikes that might someday stumble across this thread...
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Toally agree, also incorrect ign timing could have it popping through carb.Also too lean (maybe open leanout valve).
 
To expand a little on what "joec" said
If you combine a very early ignition timing (as evidenced by your starter kickback), with a compression leak backed up into the intake by an open intake valve, then ka-boom!, you get a fire in the intake, as the hot burning compressed mixture from the chamber shoots into the intake, and ignites the A/F charge there that was on its way to another cylinder..If all were doing it, I doubt it could run. But with just one or possibly 2, it would/could still run, just very rough, and a semi-constant popping in the intake, at regular intervals. I have seen that type of activity on engines with burned intake valves.
Now I'm not saying this IS your problem; but only that you should eliminate the idea of a non-seated intake valve. Additionally, I doubt this would be contributing to the overheat.It would have to be a pretty severe and continuous popping.
Another thing that popped into my head ,getting back to ignition,is this; I know pretty much nothing about alcohol, except you need a lot more of it at any given time, and it makes a very pretty flame coming out of the header. That reminded me about something.If the timing was very late, not all that alcohol will get a chance to burn in the chamber, and will still be burning on it's way out the door and continue to burn in the header. This will create a tremendous amount of heat in the header. And that makes me wonder if some of that heat could find its way into the cooling system.This flies in the face of the starter kick-back statement,tho, so I can't really see this, either. I'm almost ready to edit this ou
 
Eddy heads need the pushrod holes drilled/filled larger when used with 1.6 rockers.
Been there myself too with 3/8" pushrods.
 
Bought cups to put under my springs so that they won't walk over and hit the head anymore. Also bought new 10* clips and retainers. It should all be here tomorrow. I will put all that on. Hopefully it keeps my spring off the head.

Once the heads are bolted on I'm going to measure for pushrod length, gonna order 5/16 diameter pushrod, chromoly thick walled of course. I may clearance the push Rod hole just a bit as well..just because.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
Eddy heads need the pushrod holes drilled/filled larger when used with 1.6 rockers.
Been there myself too with 3/8" pushrods.
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Did you have to shim the rocker shafts to get the geometry all correct? Or will the roller tip land in the middle of the valve stem without shims?
 
Been a few years I put that engine together but the tip alignment was good enough without the need for rockershaft spacers.
 
Only after I had installed and torqued the heads, camshaft and rest of the valvetrain, I found I couldn't set the valve lash properly.

3 years later I installed a roller cam (XR274R) and switched back to 1.5 rockers.
 
Okay. May be a dumb question..but with the pushrod hitting the head would that bend it or just scar it? They weren't hitting super hard but they were rubbing no doubt. I figure when the ball is in the cup on the rocker and the ball is in the cup on the lifter that is a 100% straight line. Now throw in the head rubbing in the middle of that straight line it would cause it to slightly bend the pushrod..am I thinking right?
 
That's why, in an earlier post I said;"if it stays in there, it's just rubbing". If it hadda been bending it enough to stick at the top, it woulda likely spit it out.
So yea, you're thinking right.
But if you're thinking it's permanently distorted, that's easy to prove; just take 3 or 4 of them, place them side by side on a flat surface and roll them back and forth. A bent one will immediately become apparent.Bent is junk.
 
Chevies use guide plates that their pushrods lay against so some touching isn't lethal to pushrods.

I had a man bring me a 528 hemi that was built by another engine shop. Said it wasn't running like a 528 hemi should. One of the problems was the exhaust pushrods were rubbing on the aluminum block. They had been bowed around the part of the block they were hitting, and rubbed so much and so hard they had rubbed a groove around the pushrod and the pushrods were still straight. Generally the pushrods hit only when the valve is closed and as the valve opens the pushrod gains clearance.

Trying to get clearance with a drill bit for the pushrod is going to be a real rodeo. It is generally done with a air grinder and an aluminum burr.

Did I read this correctly earlier in the thread, these are Edelcbock aluminum heads and you just now are putting locators under the springs? Every Edelbrock head that has come into our shop, unless it came bare, has already had locators under the valve springs. With new locators, retainers and locks, how are your installed height, coil bind and spring pressures?
 
Yea, no spring cups on bottom. This is my first set of aluminum heads so I'm learning all this. I bought them assembled from an individual. Spring pressure was 135 closed and 340 open. But now that it's ran I'm sure it's more since they moved over against the head. That alone could have bent them I assume. No cool bind as I can visually see space between the springs when the valve is open. I haven't put a feeler gauge in to get exact measurement.
 
I'm still very curious as to how many ft-lbs of torque it takes to turn the engine over (no spark plugs) without the valve train and how much with the valve train lashed to spec.
 
IQ52 said:
I'm still very curious as to how many ft-lbs of torque it takes to turn the engine over (no spark plugs) without the valve train and how much with the valve train lashed to spec.
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We will never know what it was. I'll post some pics to show it was way too hard.
 
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