440 pistons Help

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72ScampTramp

72ScampTramp

Scamp Tramp
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Howdy Howdy. Ok I just about got the block completly torn down. Ready to take to the machine shop. I ran across some rust in the pistons so I held off on buying any. But im sure there going to need atleast one to final hone the cylinders. I need piston suggestions please.

I need a piston that will give me about 9.5-10.5 comp in a 440 with a stock stroke. I imagine it will be atleast .030 over. Im using stealth heads there 84cc. Im looking for something on the cheaper side so TRW/Speed Pro is what Ive been looking at. Can be forged or Hypers. Ive looked at them but dont understand the compression math enought to know Im not buying the wrong ones. If someone could help me that would be great thanks.
 
The Power forged TRW 2355s would be a good choice, they sit about .020" in the hole, you should be around a "true" 10.1 if not alittle more with an 84cc head & .039" gasket.
 
JoeDust451 said:
The Power forged TRW 2355s would be a good choice, they sit about .020" in the hole, you should be around a "true" 10.1 if not alittle more with an 84cc head & .039" gasket.
Click to expand...

what he said , deck the block so the piston is zero deck , run the .039-.042 gasket and you'll be good to go .

note , on your head gasket , drop a couple dowels in the dowel pin holes and MAKE SURE the gasket doesn't over hang the chambers , that has been an issue with that head in the past .
 
Ok Im confused. Thanks for the replies. But do I need to deck the block to achieve the compression im after? Im looking for the them pistons right now but I dont see that summit has them unless its under a different part number there. Thanks again guys.
 
Yes, those are the ones, you really don't need to deck the block if you don't want to, just depends on where you want your compression at, but 0 decking will give you a better quench, its not too exspensive decking the block, but you'll have to "mock" up a piston or 2 to see how much needs to come off, but its not really needed, those pistons will sit very close too the top, if you want, you can mill the heads about .030", this will drop the CC around 7-8cc, this should raise compression around .6 of a point, should put you around 10.5 with the .039" gasket, thats if those heads are 84cc now, you may want to at least CC those to make sure, i took a 440 i built & had some 906s milled .085" useing the 2355s & a steel gasket lol, compression was over 12.1, needless to say it didn't like pump gas too well.
 
Trying to build on the cheap. Dont want to machine more then I need to. Just from calling a few machine shops I can see it adds up quickly. Id be happy with 10.0 compression. It should be a pretty stout motor. What did you mean by quench?
 
You could go with the KB Hypers, the 237s are pretty much a dead ringer to the 2355s, but the TRWs are forged, so there alot stronger (but heavy), for the extra 50.00 or so, i'd go with the TRWs, there plain "bullet proof", quench is the area from the combustion chamber & TDC, you basically want .040"/.042" between the 2 areas for best quench if that makes sence, this is best achieved with closed chambered heads, not open, so in another way, the top part of the piston & the bottom part of the head, not the area of the valves, when the piston is at TDC, theres around .042" between the 2 areas, this gives the best control of the burn, thats how i can explain it, maybe someone can give it to you in a better term, i'm not that advanced lol, but it makes sence to me.
 
so basically with the pistons you pointed out. You said they would be about
.020 in the hole plus the .039 of the gasket would put quench at .059? So to get proper quench id need to mill .019 off?
 
eaglesguy1981j said:
Bob you mentioned these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB236-030/

Is that the right ones? Also anything special to them. You say 10.5 comp?


Thanks to all that have replied.
Click to expand...

I'll assume those Stealth heads are closed chambered right? If this is the case, the 236s have a slight dome, but they are designed for an open chambered head, if you notice where the "step" is on the piston, its to help close up the opened area on an opened chambered head, these stepped domes on the KBs are about .040", this will take up most of the .039" gasket & get mighty close to the head if its closed, so you don't want that, i'm sure these pistons sit below about the same as the 237s, but they have that flat dome pad, this is a nice design for an opened chamber, it helps step up the compression about a 1/2 point, but unlike a true "domed" piston, this design still lets the combustion have "flame travel", were as a full dome blocks this, causeing carbon build up on the back side of the dome where the burn is weak opposite the plug, so if the stealths are a closed chambered design, you want to stay with a flat top piston, but getting it as close to 0 deck will give you the "best" quench!!

You can live with .059" or so as a quench, it'll still work/perform quit well, but having the "best" quench & cam profile allows you to run on a lower octane & higher compression, but you'll be fine with aluminum heads & 10-10.5 compression easy, so i'd say, either the KB 237s or the TRW 2355s for forged, definitely have the rotateing assembly balanced either way you choose, IMO, i'd spend alittle extra, get the TRWs, & a nice set of I beam rods, you'll have a very stout short block that'll take alot of abuse if needed, even with a cast crank if thats what you have, & if for ANY reason down the road you deside to juice it (because you never know), your good to go.
 
Well now that I have an idea of what I need it helps. Thanks for explaining some things to me. I like the idea of using my already there cast crank. Ive looked for steel but for the money and the cost to ship in is to much to swallow. I was planning on using my stock rods with this any problems there?
 
I was just over to summit and put a few in the cart to check shipping on them TRW's here is what it said.....

The part TRW-L2355F30 is being discontinued and only has 2 available for purchase. The quantity you requested for TRW-L2355F30 has been adjusted accordingly.
 
I called jegs, they have 3, so i guess your only choice now is KBs to keep cost down, no sence buying 2 here & 3 there, that'll just eat you up in shipping cost, then you'll still need 3 more, but you may want to check around with some vendors for a complete set, you might just get lucky.
 
Ok, i made a call to Mancini, they don't have the TRWs, i also found out that your 84cc stealths are open chambered, so you can run the stepped piston KB236s, KB also makes a forged FT part # KB822, but there 480.00 from Mancini.
 
I noticed the cam was mentioned a few times. This is the one I had picked out. Will fit into what Im shooting for? Im shooting for 500hp give or take a bit on pump gas.
http://store.440source.com/Comp-Cam-Xtreme-Energy-Hi-Lift-545/productinfo/145-1228/


440 .030 over
TRW-L2355F30
Stock rods and crank
440 source Stealth Heads (Gasket matched)
Weiand D port T-ram 2x600 holleys (I know they dont run the best on steet but I like the look)
4.10 gears 28"tire
727 with 3000 stall
 
eaglesguy1981j said:
I noticed the cam was mentioned a few times. This is the one I had picked out. Will fit into what Im shooting for? Im shooting for 500hp give or take a bit on pump gas.
http://store.440source.com/Comp-Cam-Xtreme-Energy-Hi-Lift-545/productinfo/145-1228/


440 .030 over
TRW-L2355F30
Stock rods and crank
440 source Stealth Heads (Gasket matched)
Weiand D port T-ram 2x600 holleys (I know they dont run the best on steet but I like the look)
4.10 gears 28"tire
727 with 3000 stall
Click to expand...

Cam looks good, i ran the XE284H in a 451 low deck with stock 906s, ran 10.9s at 120+, so with your set-up, that cam should work great, just make sure you get the Comp "Pro magnum" lifters, you'll be glad you did.

You may want to run a higher stall then 3000.
 
eaglesguy1981j said:
Think I can hit my goal for power with this combo? If not what should I change.
Click to expand...


You should easily with that cam/heads & carb set-up, i was right around 500fwhp with stock 906s, XE284H cam, M1 & 750dp, the converter choice at 3000 won't be the best, thats what i would change, call PTC & have them put you in a 9.5" converter, mine flashed around 4400 but was still streetable, i see your going with a TR & 2 600s, thats what i ended up with at the end with my 451, don't let people tell you its not streetable, those TRs are great on the street when the carbs are dialed in, the idle quality was 2nd. too non compaired to a single carb set-up, i loved it, & the torque was un-real :toothy10: If you need any tuneing tips on those 1850s let me know.
 
See I take the time to read stuff. But dont always understand what I read. Ive gotten so much crap already for wanting to run the T-ram.( I like the look plain and simple). When I ask people about my build all the feed back I get is about the T-ram it never gets on to the other stuff that I want info on. All in all I think I will be a stout motor with plenty of power for my Scamp. I talked to a few machine shops yesterday. One quote was $125 to bore and $50 to clean twice these prices included maged and crack checked. I asked about square decking he said its not as important in a street engine as it is in a race engine. Any truth to that?


You think I need more Converter? Keep in mind Id like to be able to do 55 on the hwy and not at 3500rpm. From the calculators Ive used I should end up about 2700rpm at 55mph. Does the converter change that? I know I should lower the gears but there whats in the rear and I figure Ill run them just buy taller tires.
 
I just realized your the guy I was talking to on Moparts. Did you ever come up with anything on the T-Ram linkage?
 
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