440 Stealth Heads with Comp Cam Springs?

-
bremereric

bremereric

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
1,271
Reaction score
21
Location
Houston, Texas
I have had troubles with my .541/.537 lift roller cam in my 440...I am using 440 Sources Stealth heads with new 10 degree locks and retainers...the only info they give for the springs is that they are good for up to .600 lift cams.....wtf....I believe their springs are too strong for the roller lifters and are overcomming the hydraulic plunger when the lifter pushes the valve open.....I am going to buy the recommended 925-16 springs from Comp Cams...my real question is has anyone put dual springs on their heads and is there any machining required?
cool.gif
I am also running their 1.6 ratio rocker arms and final valve lift is around .578....​
 
The comp 925s are stiffer than the Stealth factory springs... but if you're at .578 you could be having coil bind issues. I'm more inclined to think the 1.6 rockers might be hurting it more than lighter springs. What's the issue? Noise? lack of power?
 
moper said:
The comp 925s are stiffer than the Stealth factory springs... but if you're at .578 you could be having coil bind issues. I'm more inclined to think the 1.6 rockers might be hurting it more than lighter springs. What's the issue? Noise? lack of power?
Click to expand...
It sounds like 16 collasped lifters....do you know the specs of the Stealth springs.....the 925-16 are what are specified on my cam card....

COMP Cams 925-16 - COMP Cams Valve Springs Valve Springs, Dual, 1.510 in. Outside Diameter, 395 lbs./in. Rate, 1.100 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

I know my buddy Paul is running the same 1.6 ratio rockers on eddy heads with comps springs and their roller lifters with no problem......engine builder at machine shop mentioned that also....the problem is I do not know the coil bind height of the 440 Source ones.....

Number one intake valve full open.......

IMG00192-20100416-1621.jpg
 
Made this ugly thing today...bwth...it works....I can't weld...bwth...it works

Wanted to take one spring off today to do some measurements....used cut of wheel to remove center conductor of sparkplug.....cut off the threads of a male quick connect for air line...took them to work and welded them together....no leaks but looks like s.........h........i........t
grin.gif


I told ya before that I can't weld very good........

IMG00196-20100418-1310.jpg


I did get one valve spring off with the above tool......it will be real fun on the other side....

IMG00195-20100418-1257.jpg
 
I called Comp Cams this morning and after 25 minutes I got a hold of good guy....he figured that I would be fine at his calculated .580 lift and would not run into any coil binding issues.....the 925-16's are on order with new 10 degree retainers.... and am waiting for springs specs from 440 Source....8)​
 
Our valve springs work great with hydraulic and solid cams up to .600" lift. See the "specifications" table below for more detailed information on these. We offer them in either singles or complete sets of 16. Valve Spring Type: Single with Damper. Recommended for maximum .600" lift.
Valve Spring Closed (seat) Pressure: Approx. 130 pounds @ 1.875" installed height
Valve Spring Open Pressure Approx. 330 pounds @ 1.275" (.600" lift.)
Valve Spring Inner Diameter: 1.050"
Valve Spring Maximum Lift: .600"
Valve Spring Coil Bind Height: 1.130"
Valve Spring Outer Diameter: 1.550"
Valve Spring Free Height 2.400"
Valve Spring Installed Height: 1.875"
Valve Spring Wire Diameter: .202"
Valve Spring Number of Coils: 5.5
 
bremereric said:
Our valve springs work great with hydraulic and solid cams up to .600" lift. See the "specifications" table below for more detailed information on these. We offer them in either singles or complete sets of 16. Valve Spring Type: Single with Damper. Recommended for maximum .600" lift.
Valve Spring Closed (seat) Pressure: Approx. 130 pounds @ 1.875" installed height
Valve Spring Open Pressure Approx. 330 pounds @ 1.275" (.600" lift.)
Valve Spring Inner Diameter: 1.050"
Valve Spring Maximum Lift: .600"
Valve Spring Coil Bind Height: 1.130"
Valve Spring Outer Diameter: 1.550"
Valve Spring Free Height 2.400"
Valve Spring Installed Height: 1.875"
Valve Spring Wire Diameter: .202"
Valve Spring Number of Coils: 5.5
Click to expand...

who's roller lifter are you running ?

also that source spring is lighter than the recommended spring so I would be changing them out .

there are a couple issues you need to check , coil bind AND is your retainer hitting the top of the valveguide/seal at full lift . If the source head is good for .600 lift you are scarey close at .578, especially if it goes into valve float with that spring at is too lite for your cam ...
 
then figure in the seal and how much room it eats up, if you find a pinched seal, you know you need more room.
These are supposed to be performance heads so I would think the guides would come machined down for big lifts but you never know till you check..
 
JohnRR said:
who's roller lifter are you running ?

also that source spring is lighter than the recommended spring so I would be changing them out .

there are a couple issues you need to check , coil bind AND is your retainer hitting the top of the valveguide/seal at full lift . If the source head is good for .600 lift you are scarey close at .578, especially if it goes into valve float with that spring at is too lite for your cam ...
Click to expand...

Comps roller lifters...sent back the 440 Source roller lifter....there were two big differances between the two...Seals looked great...what noise does vavle float make because now that is what I am guessing the problem is...I believe the 440 Source springs are not what they are saying they are good for...8)
 
moper said:
What is your lifter preload as things are now?
Click to expand...
zero and 1/8th of a turn....Comp Cams instructions recommend zero or 1/8 of a turn past zero....In my 340 roller motor I found out it would not start with a 1/2 turn past zero...8)
 
I got my Comp Cam roller lifters today and what a difference.....first of all the width of the top oil band is wider...thus the oil hole is about 1/8" lower....I think 440 Sources oil bleed off issue was due to the narrower top oil band and the oil holes being higher........also take a look at the pin that secures the link bar....which would you rather have...cleaning them up to put the motor back together....will keep you posted on the progress....Comp Cams on the left and are black8)

IMG00183-20100414-1356.jpg


IMG00184-20100414-1357.jpg
 
I have not used Comp hydraulics... So this is just an opinion... But I'd go at least another 1/4 turn if and only if they are still noisey when you're up and running.
 
moper said:
I have not used Comp hydraulics... So this is just an opinion... But I'd go at least another 1/4 turn if and only if they are still noisey when you're up and running.
Click to expand...
I used them in my previous 340 roller and they did fine at 1/8 turn past zero....any more and it wouldn't start..8)
 
JohnRR said:
who's roller lifter are you running ?

also that source spring is lighter than the recommended spring so I would be changing them out .

there are a couple issues you need to check , coil bind AND is your retainer hitting the top of the valveguide/seal at full lift . If the source head is good for .600 lift you are scarey close at .578, especially if it goes into valve float with that spring at is too lite for your cam ...
Click to expand...

bremereric said:
Comps roller lifters...sent back the 440 Source roller lifter....there were two big differances between the two...Seals looked great...what noise does vavle float make because now that is what I am guessing the problem is...I believe the 440 Source springs are not what they are saying they are good for...8)
Click to expand...

I see you posting a picture of the comp next to something else on the right , is the lifter on the right the one you are having the problems with that this thread is asking about ?

Valve float is not a sound you listen , valve float will make you lose power at hi RPM .

plus you glossed over my comment about the coil bind AND the retainer coming to close to the top of the valve guide , you need to look at that also, DO NOT ASSUME you have the clearance just because the seller of the product said it does , . I'm not sure how much clearance you should have but I would think at least .050 ?
 
JohnRR said:
I see you posting a picture of the comp next to something else on the right , is the lifter on the right the one you are having the problems with that this thread is asking about ?

Valve float is not a sound you listen , valve float will make you lose power at hi RPM .

plus you glossed over my comment about the coil bind AND the retainer coming to close to the top of the valve guide , you need to look at that also, DO NOT ASSUME you have the clearance just because the seller of the product said it does , . I'm not sure how much clearance you should have but I would think at least .050 ?
Click to expand...

The 440 lifter on the right was the first ones...terrible valve train noise heard...then installed Comp Cams lifters...terrible valve train noise heard again...

After taking off one of the springs shown in the picture above the seal looked to be in perfect condition...I will check the clearance on the drivers side tonight when all of the new srpings are installed...coil bind maybe with the old springs...I could slide a .025 feeler gauge in between the top two coils and the remainder of them had large gaps in between them...and it's their factory springs that they rate for only .600 lift...
 
icon6.png
I got my new Comp Cam springs and retainers today

bbd.gif


There were some differences in the spring but not really with the retainers....I got six of them done on the driver's side within 20 minutes....the springs came out really easy with the pry bar looking spring compressor...I installed them with the hand rotary type compressor...dropped the locks a couple of times and cussed as they hit the floor...will have to move the master cylinder tomorrow to get the ones off of cylinder 7...the other side I will have to drop the header...
1928044-10_1_118v.gif
here goes a couple of pics to show you things...

Comp's double spring on the right and 440 Source's single spring on the left....

IMG00200-20100421-2220.jpg


Both spring compressors shown by master cylinder....

IMG00198-20100421-2214.jpg


IMG00199-20100421-2216.jpg
 
icon14.png
Tonight I got six more springs changed out......

I moved the master cylinder out of the way on the driver's side and got a chance to use my new firewall gasket...finished the last two springs on that side and was able to finish number 2 and 8 cylinders on the other side...tomorrow I will have to un-bolt the exhaust...pry the motor up a bit and remove the header to get the other two....noticed how the retainers and springs look better than 440 Sources....they seem to hang outside of the retainers a bit.....

IMG00201-20100422-2025.jpg


Sources on the left...Comps on the right.....

IMG00202-20100422-2151.jpg
 
Last nights progress......
I got the rocker arms back on the driver's side.....I checked the roller tip to valve stem geometry very closely and it is great...also checked the clearance of the retainer to the top of the valve seal at full lift and there is plenty of room..it would be hard to see in a picture so I did not bother to take one...I got the exhaust un-bolted and the header ready to come out on the passenger side...to finish up number 4 and 6 cylinders.....

IMG00204-20100423-2123.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top