451 overheating, even when moving

[Bewy]

Mounting the toy fans dire ct to the rad does nothing, probably makes it worse. Air is NOW only pulled through the core where the fans are. A large area of the rad core is not working for you.

You need [a] a shroud that pulls air through all of the rad core & a large 18/19" mech fan to do the job.

Here is where people go wrong with this: they fail to ensure that their cooling system is going to get the job done under the worst conditions that could be encountered: stop/go traffic on a very hot day.

 

[canajien]

Well, the engine mounted fan was actually worse than the two efan options

About 7 degrees hotter everywhere on the rad...

So I'm gonna try this next week.

Engine fan pulling, efan pushing

A 440 with high compression, he was having the same problem, so he went with one pulling through a very nice looking shroud with one pushing and problem solved.

Still don't know why it ran fine for nearly an hour on the day we were test driving, and now that it was "flushed" it's garbage

I'll get the timing adjusted as well.

The joys of driving a former drag car that was made "streetable"

 

[RustyRatRod]

I'm just gonna say this and you glean from it whatever you want. The stock Mopar cooling systems cooled everything from slant sixes all the way to the 13.5:1 Max Wedges and the 12.5:1 Race Hemis. They NEVER RAN HOT with STOCK Mopar cooling systems. You might want to consider that a CLUE.

 

[canajien]

I'm just gonna say this and you glean from it whatever you want. The stock Mopar cooling systems cooled everything from slant sixes all the way to the 13.5:1 Max Wedges and the 12.5:1 Race Hemis. The NEVER RAN HOT with STOCK Mopar cooling systems. You might want to consider that a CLUE.

Makes a lot of sense, but gotta work with what I got due to $$$

 

[RustyRatRod]

Makes a lot of sense, but gotta work with what I got due to $$$

Well, when "what you got" doesn't work, you'll be paying for it twice. Think about that. It's cheaper to do it right the first time.

 

[canajien]

Well, when "what you got" doesn't work, you'll be paying for it twice. Think about that. It's cheaper to do it right the first time.

It won't be driven anywhere until it is fixed, the annoying thing is it worked fine before it was flushed. Definitely one of those if it ain't broke don't fix it things now!

 

[George Jets]

Let's see a picture of the solid mount fan that you bolted to the water pump.

☆☆☆☆☆

 

[mopowers]

Well, the engine mounted fan was actually worse than the two efan options

About 7 degrees hotter everywhere on the rad...

So I'm gonna try this next week.

View attachment 1716114536

View attachment 1716114537

Engine fan pulling, efan pushing

A 440 with high compression, he was having the same problem, so he went with one pulling through a very nice looking shroud with one pushing and problem solved.

Still don't know why it ran fine for nearly an hour on the day we were test driving, and now that it was "flushed" it's garbage

I'll get the timing adjusted as well.

The joys of driving a former drag car that was made "streetable"

What fan did you try? Was it a factory fixed fan (if so, which one - 5 blade, 7- blade, etc? What diameter?), or was it an aftermarket POS? How far from the radiator was it? Did it have a shroud?

If it's overheating when it's moving, it's probably not an air flow issue anyway.

 

[RustyRatRod]

There's a fixed factory fan in the for sale section right now. It's either a six or seven blade. @gliderider06 has it for sale. Good price. It'll sound like a mofokin airplane goin down the road but those fans flat out MOVE some air.

 

[Demonx2]

FWIW...cools my 408 in the avatar on the streets. 10.5 CR, runs low 11's. Champion 22" radiator. I sealed all the "overlap" openings you see before I installed it. Basically, all the air has to pass through the rad and through either those 2 fans or the rubber flaps that open at speed. I rarely run both fans, usually 1 is enough. Unless sitting in traffic in 90+ deg heat, then I'll flip both fans on. In that type condition, temp will stay below 190 idling as long as you want.

At the track, 1 fan is sufficient. Fan assy is a Jegs 555-52115 which is a Maradyne MM22K fan assy. What I cannot tell you is how much or if the 6-pack scoop also helps. I suspect it doesn't hurt!

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well, All I can add at this point is, MY car runs cool on the hottest days. Good luck.

 

[Demonx2]

^^^I'm sure it does. I was just offering another data point.

BTW...I also think the Ford Contour electric fans would be better than mine IF you have a 26" radiator.

FWIW...!!

 

[George Jets]

^^^ @RustyRatRod

Like you said, here a menber has a 7 blade 18" fan for sale right now, price bumped to $60.00

Bolts directly on to the water pump with desired fan spacer. Will move massive air.

☆☆☆☆☆

 

[RustyRatRod]

FWIW...cools my 408 in the avatar on the streets. 10.5 CR, runs low 11's. Champion 22" radiator. I sealed all the "overlap" openings you see before I installed it. Basically, all the air has to pass through the rad and through either those 2 fans or the rubber flaps that open at speed. I rarely run both fans, usually 1 is enough. Unless sitting in traffic in 90+ deg heat, then I'll flip both fans on. In that type condition, temp will stay below 190 idling as long as you want.

At the track, 1 fan is sufficient. Fan assy is a Jegs 555-52115 which is a Maradyne MM22K fan assy. What I cannot tell you is how much or if the 6-pack scoop also helps. I suspect it doesn't hurt!

View attachment 1716114641

That's a nice setup. Understand when I say this, I take NOTHING away from it whatsoever. However, you have one HECK of a radiator if it never has idle temps above 190........and I believe you. "Most" high performance engines do require that magical "around" 4000 CFM number in order to keep cool at idle or slow speeds. That's a nice install you did blocking the overlap areas as you say. Most people don't think of that. Do you have pictures installed? I'd love to see it. I'm sure it's a neat fit.

 

[canajien]

I used the 18" derale recommended in #30, no shroud.

All fans have been removed from the engine for now as I figure out what's next, but I'm leaning towards taking it to a father/son mechanics shop who go drag racing on the weekends. The father has been hurtling Mopars down the strip since the 60s and is semi retired, but I think he'll welcome the opportunity to sort this.

What the heck happened when it was flushed?!?!

 

[mopowers]

I used the 18" derale recommended in #30, no shroud.

I realize it's too late now, but I'd have tried a stock fixed fan long before tossing an aftermarket flex fan on it. Didn't you say it's overheating when moving anyway? If that's the case, airflow may not be the (only) issue.

What the heck happened when it was flushed?!?!

Maybe there was some junk in the water jackets in the block that were jarred loose and clogged some of the tubes in the radiator?

 

[sireland67]

If it were mine, I would get a factory-style copper/brass radiator, with a factory style shroud, factory AC style fan.
Problem would be solved.

 

[Demonx2]

That's a nice setup. Understand when I say this, I take NOTHING away from it whatsoever. However, you have one HECK of a radiator if it never has idle temps above 190........and I believe you. "Most" high performance engines do require that magical "around" 4000 CFM number in order to keep cool at idle or slow speeds. That's a nice install you did blocking the overlap areas as you say. Most people don't think of that. Do you have pictures installed? I'd love to see it. I'm sure it's a neat fit.

Happy to share! I always say "Your results may vary" but for me personally, I look at everything anyone else does and posts to learn and see what may have worked for them.

In that spirit, here's a couple shots when I did the install. Note that I assembled the fan assembly to the rad before installing it in the car. There were no open holes or airflow bypasses when it went into the car. Wiring was not yet done here in these pics. Note that I have an overflow bottle hooked up that was not shown in the pics. Also, the hub of the water pump has plenty of clearance as it falls in between the 2 fans motors. Lastly, due to a glass 6-pack hood, I do not have a rad support to hood seal.

The final overall package:

 

[RustyRatRod]

That does look nice! Nice job! Looks like some tight space to squeeze a belt between the water pump pulley and fans! lol

 

[Demonx2]

Thx Rusty. It's easier than it looks as the water pump hub has plenty of clearance to the fans. And I have that Summit alternator adjusting bracket which I've also found to be quite nice and simplifies things.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Thx Rusty. It's easier than it looks as the water pump hub has plenty of clearance to the fans. And I have that Summit alternator adjusting bracket which I've also found to be quite nice and simplifies things.

Cool! I thought maybe it was a camera angle thing.

 

[canajien]

Sooooooo, turns out I have the commie flu, which means isolating from the family, darn it all, I had to spend my first day of isolation watching baseball and then I decided to go ahead and put the efan in push configuration and reinstall the mechanical fan, which means I will be spending some of my iso time getting more data tomorrow.

The fan is about 2.74" from the rad, I know it would cool better with a shroud, let alone look better with some proper efan zips instead of that Amazon junk...

Not like I can take it to the mechanic's this week.

 

[canajien]

Sooooooo, turns out I have the commie flu, which means isolating from the family, darn it all, I had to spend my first day of isolation watching baseball and then I decided to go ahead and put the efan in push configuration and reinstall the mechanical fan, which means I will be spending some of my iso time getting more data tomorrow.
View attachment 1716115539

The fan is about 2.74" from the rad, I know it would cool better with a shroud, let alone look better with some proper efan zips instead of that Amazon junk...

Not like I can take it to the mechanic's this week.

Maybe I'll just use some normal zip ties and fender washers for now... Can't be any worse to look at...

 

[George Jets]

Sooooooo, turns out I have the commie flu, which means isolating from the family, darn it all, I had to spend my first day of isolation watching baseball and then I decided to go ahead and put the efan in push configuration and reinstall the mechanical fan, which means I will be spending some of my iso time getting more data tomorrow.
View attachment 1716115539

The fan is about 2.74" from the rad, I know it would cool better with a shroud, let alone look better with some proper efan zips instead of that Amazon junk...

Not like I can take it to the mechanic's this week.

Got to get a spacer on that fan to get it to within 3/4" of the radiator. Then it will pull air through the radiator and cool it down without the shroud.

Yes you have to pull the radiator to get the Fan and Spacer in there first, then re-install the radiator.

Knew there was something wrong with your installation when you said it would not cool with the mechanical fan.

☆☆☆☆☆

 

[George Jets]

Spacer ^^^

It's simple, you need a 2" spacer to get it to work properly.

☆☆☆☆☆