Hey guys. Now I know there is a vast amount of knowledge coursing through all the heads on this forum. I got a few questions. Me and my old man picked up a 72 demon not too long ago. I want a small block he wants a hemi.... Well lets do a small block hemi! I want to do this swap, but i need some more help from you guys. I want to run the TKO 600 tranny from Keisler. Has anyone done this yet? Im doing this on a budget. I found a 5.7, and thats what im gonna use. I want a supercharger on this thing too, the new one from Kenne Bell. I plan on doing the wiring myself. We would also love to keep the fuel injection. The motor I have is an 04 hemi from a ram. What kind of budget minded power upgrades can I perform. Heads? Throttle bodies? 6.1 cam? please let us know what youre doing for increased power and performance. Any help would be great guys. Please post Pics galore and your own personal info on your swaps. thanks again
5.7 swap questions?
- Thread starter billyboyd
- Start date
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TxSwimDad
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the A-body 3G Hemi party!
Here are my opinions and a shameless plug or two
so naturally, someone will have a different idea.
The sky is the limit in this kind of motor swap.
Since you are using an 04, you definitely should plan to replace the valve springs even if you decide not to change the cam at all. The 03 & 04 Hemi's had some spring breakage issues that haunt you at the worst time and could cost your dearly.
A cam is definitely a great addition to the 3G Hemi's. There are much better cams than the 6.1 cam to consider, especially if considering a blower in the future. We (www.InertiaMotorsports.com, a FABO sponsor ) , have them for $420 shipped to the lower 48. No matter where you get a cam, make sure and get the appropriate length push rods for your combination of cam & heads, or else you will hear that Hemi “tick” that annoys so many folks. While you are in there throw on a 6.1 oil pump just for cheap insurance.
Heads are available from us starting at $1375 (exchange) Many of the big hp 5.7’s run 6.1 heads for the added performance. That is an easy bolt-on for serious hp.
You might want to consider changing to a 6.1 intake that has been ported, especially if you go with ported heads (5.7 or 6.1).
Throttle bodies are a good addition, too. We offer CNC Ported TBs for $250 (exchange). Don't waste your money on a TB spacer, though.
The Keisler transmission kits seem to be good, though I have not dealt with one myself. Mine is going to run a TF727 and we have a cuda that will eventually run a viper 6 speed.
Since you are going w/ the OEM computer, you will want a tuner system, ours are priced at $375 shipped w/ the canned tunes from Diablo . Diablo is the best out there for dealing w/ the factory Mopar computer. It allows you to adjust some of the settings of the OEM maps. To really adjust things wildly for a big cam or blower, you will use a Diablo dealer to write a program specifically tailored to your changes via the tools data logging capability.
Adding headers is a big bonus. Right now, TTI seems to have the A-body market on them as well as bolt-in motor mounts, though we are working on our own solution. We hope to use SRT Jeep pieces and our own custom motor mounts for a much more budget friendly approach. We have seen big hp out of the factory SRT manifolds.
The Kenne Bell has a nice set up. Be aware though that the stock 5.7 is not going to last long above about 10lbs. Piston ring lands tend to break and destroy the motor soon after.
The shop I work in, has built more than 100 3G Hemi motors, many of which hold 3G Hemi records in ¼ mile and standing mile events, in various vehicles.
So what order would I say go for the best bank for the buck and in what order if you want to gradually improve your motor?
To see what others say about Inertia, check out this link.
Feel free to check out my own project in my signature. A near twin of my 5.7 motor dyno’ed at 435hp. With the Inertia cam, an XV carb intake and TTI headers, we expect that this motor will be slightly higher powered than the other motor.
Good luck with your project.
Here are my opinions and a shameless plug or two
so naturally, someone will have a different idea. The sky is the limit in this kind of motor swap.
Since you are using an 04, you definitely should plan to replace the valve springs even if you decide not to change the cam at all. The 03 & 04 Hemi's had some spring breakage issues that haunt you at the worst time and could cost your dearly.
A cam is definitely a great addition to the 3G Hemi's. There are much better cams than the 6.1 cam to consider, especially if considering a blower in the future. We (www.InertiaMotorsports.com, a FABO sponsor ) , have them for $420 shipped to the lower 48. No matter where you get a cam, make sure and get the appropriate length push rods for your combination of cam & heads, or else you will hear that Hemi “tick” that annoys so many folks. While you are in there throw on a 6.1 oil pump just for cheap insurance.
Heads are available from us starting at $1375 (exchange) Many of the big hp 5.7’s run 6.1 heads for the added performance. That is an easy bolt-on for serious hp.
You might want to consider changing to a 6.1 intake that has been ported, especially if you go with ported heads (5.7 or 6.1).
Throttle bodies are a good addition, too. We offer CNC Ported TBs for $250 (exchange). Don't waste your money on a TB spacer, though.
The Keisler transmission kits seem to be good, though I have not dealt with one myself. Mine is going to run a TF727 and we have a cuda that will eventually run a viper 6 speed.
Since you are going w/ the OEM computer, you will want a tuner system, ours are priced at $375 shipped w/ the canned tunes from Diablo . Diablo is the best out there for dealing w/ the factory Mopar computer. It allows you to adjust some of the settings of the OEM maps. To really adjust things wildly for a big cam or blower, you will use a Diablo dealer to write a program specifically tailored to your changes via the tools data logging capability.
Adding headers is a big bonus. Right now, TTI seems to have the A-body market on them as well as bolt-in motor mounts, though we are working on our own solution. We hope to use SRT Jeep pieces and our own custom motor mounts for a much more budget friendly approach. We have seen big hp out of the factory SRT manifolds.
The Kenne Bell has a nice set up. Be aware though that the stock 5.7 is not going to last long above about 10lbs. Piston ring lands tend to break and destroy the motor soon after.
The shop I work in, has built more than 100 3G Hemi motors, many of which hold 3G Hemi records in ¼ mile and standing mile events, in various vehicles.
So what order would I say go for the best bank for the buck and in what order if you want to gradually improve your motor?
- Cam & tuner
- Headers
- heads
- 6.1 intake
- Throttle Body
- Forged motor
- Supercharger system
To see what others say about Inertia, check out this link.
Feel free to check out my own project in my signature. A near twin of my 5.7 motor dyno’ed at 435hp. With the Inertia cam, an XV carb intake and TTI headers, we expect that this motor will be slightly higher powered than the other motor.
Good luck with your project.
all your information has been extremely helpful. I will be ordering some parts as soon as money permits and the project is in full swing. does anyone else have any information or pics of builds? im new to the site and havent found out exactly how to view profiles and pics. please help me out. thanks guys
TxSwimDad
Well-Known Member
That is great. Keep us posted on your progress.
Here's mine Click on the link, it will show you all of the pictures and the specs.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=3079
Thanks for the pics on your build up. How did you get your gauges to work? Ive heard that this is a problem with this kind of swap. Now you also did the carbed version. What were your pros and cons? Did it affect mileage? what about power? Your 1/4 mile times, i noticed they were good, but could you have done better? were the tires slipping at all? Im sorry for all the questions. I just cant jump head first in without gathering all the info that i can. THANKS!!!
No the guages are no problem at all!! Being that I am running carbs I used the stock port for the coolant sensor for my mechanical water temp guage and drilled and tapped the water pump for the small stock sensor. I only use an aftermarket mechanical oil pressure guage. The pros to the carbed setup is simplicity and cost!! Very reliable and very easy to tune. I dont care about milage, it's a toy with a big cam. No tire slip. I need a higher stall torque converter because of the cam and size of the engine. I will have my car in the high 11s this year when I lower my 60' time. I have already started the upgrades. :toothy10:
I thought this whole time that the gauges would be the hardest part. what about the mph gauge. Is the performance that much better with the carb setup? I want a street cruiser, so i wont be adding a giant cam. i want to run the keisler TKO600 5 speed tranny. If you dont mind me asking, how much would i have invested in a mild build, and what was your cost for the engine setup thus far? thanks, youre a big help
TxSwimDad
Well-Known Member
It seems as though we sold a factory fresh 5.7 shortblock for around $1800 a while back.so consider that when pricing out a stock rebuild.
Just for clarification that is without heads, intake or exhaust manifolds,timing cover, oil pan....
Hope that helps
Just for clarification that is without heads, intake or exhaust manifolds,timing cover, oil pan....
Hope that helps
I used a 727 trans so I used the stock spedo cable and gear. In all actuality the EFI is a much more precise setup over the carbs and might make more power just because of it but, I was going for simple old school and looks. My sole intent was to make it look like a 426 so it had to have carbs. It depends on what you want. Hemi stuff isn't the cheapest thing in the world and most of the costs come from the accessories. Headers are $700, a MSD Hemi 6 is $700 with a wiring harness, a carbed intake is $400, motor mounts are $150, etc. etc. A stock 5.7L is around $1800 to $2200, To me a mild build is a stock 5.7L engine with, cam, springs, pushrods and retainers around $700, CNC port your heads $1000. :toothy10:
How much horse is you setup pushing? I want a high 11 second street car. What gear ratio are you running in your rearend? I am trying to lighten up my demon as much as possible, Im going with fiberglass bumpers, hood, and fenders. With these mods and a mild built engine, are 11s totally outta the question?
I'm pushing around 500 HP out of a stock displacement 5.7L. Your best bet is to stroke a 5.7 to 383 or a 6.1L to a 426. I have a heavy car with stock displacement, a big cam, and even the 5.7L heads have a large volume for a small motor. Basicly it is low on bottom end torque output so I need a high stahl converter. Not extremely street friendly but driveable and it was what I wanted. If you are around 3000lbs and have a stroked engine you won't need as much converter or cam and get a streetable combo that will run 11s. :toothy10:
I know that there are alot more guys on here with sweet new hemi swaps!!!!! Lets see some pics or info or links to your personal threads. Im hoping to snag some pics of the demon once i get home. long hours at work and being so far from home really takes a toll on a mans body. Once again thanks for the help so far guys
TxSwimDad
Well-Known Member
Mine is anxiously awaiting to put this in......
xlexl
Well-Known Member
Funny was just thinking about ripping the 440 out of my '68 fish and putting in a 6.1....than voila jump on here and heres this thread! Great information!! As far as the manual with either viper 6spd or Keisler do you still use the stock pedals, z-bar, ect.? As much as i'd love to do the 3g swap, while writing this I had the sudden epiphany that maybe not such a great idea...I'd order a part and have to decide whether to put it in the truck or car....
just recently i almost bought a 64 plymouth fury 2door hard top and a 65 dodge dart. its kinda funny. they two same body styles i like and there are two guys on here doing the build i want to. the deal on the 5.7 i had going fell through. now i gotta try to find a new motor. i want used. what are the main differences between the 6.1 and the 5.7? i know the heads are interchangable, the blocks are the same, 6.1 heads require a 6.1 intake. bores are a little different. but would it be a bad idea to snag a 6.1 if i can? im really ticked off about the motor deal. but you know, sh*t happens.
SRT_DSTRHOLC
Well-Known Member
can you run the 6.1 or 5.7 with a old 727?
TxSwimDad
Well-Known Member
Yes. These new Hemis have the small block bolt pattern.
Stonecold63
Member
I'm glad to see it has been done before. I am in the process of stripping down my 63 Valiant and was hopping to put in a 5.7 Hemi also when all said and done! Wish me luck!!
Stonecold63
Member
Hey Tin-cup and 5.7 Hemi,
What front suspension are you running?
What front suspension are you running?
I went with the AlterKation on my Dart.
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