5 point harness in a car w/o roll cage...How to do it?

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wjaholic

wjaholic

My car stole my wallet!
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Alright, I am converting my duster from a column shift bench seat to a bucket seat floor shift. I am not using a pair of factory seats, I am actually using a set of aftermarket seats that allow for the shoulder straps of a 5 point harness. Since I am not going to be putting a roll cage in my car I was wondering what the best way to tie them in to the car would be? I have thought about making a big beefy set of brackets that are welded to the sub frame connector but I figured I would run it past people with some experience (or have pictures of this setup). I dont want to have the mounting locations break in case of an accident but dont want to waste my time and end up screwing my self over.

Thanks!
 
I'm sure someone on here can give you the exact reason, but you do not want 5 point harnesses without the cage. The mounting points and leverage on belts will cut you and hurt you in an accident if not mounted right. It's something about the way the shoulder belts are run.

Greg
 
What type of seats are you using. In my Duster I had a set of poly RCI seats that I just mounted the upper belts to the back of the seat. Problem 1. In an accident it could have folded the seat with me in it. 2. It was not legal at any track. 3. If you were to take a long Y belt to the floor in an accident it could fold you and the seat because it will pull down on you and the seat. I would run a main cage and then build curved back bars that go down to the trans tunnel and mount my belts to the bar behind the seat. That way you can still access the back seat through the center but have some added protection.
 
The only reason I put the upper belts in is because they gave me a ticket for not having a shoulder belt in the car.
 
hmm... I could come up with a some way to put a roll cage in there. :scratch: I had never thought about the seats folding from the force of the belt in an accident. :vom:

I would much rather weld in a roll cage and do it right then to tottaly screw my self over in an accident....

Thanks for the advice! This helped ALOT!
 
I have never heard of a roll cage not being allowed on the street. Heck if anything I would think that they would be welcome. They make the car much safer and protects the car and driver alot more than a stock body or frame would. Hell I think they should give you a break on your insurance too.
 
They do make Harnesses that are floor mount.....I have them in my car.....but like stated they forces exerted can hurt you in an accident. Mine are a Y type that have a long strap the bolts to the floor.....the problem is that they pull down on the back of the seat and if your shoulders are above the seat they pull down on them.....I don't waer the shoulder straps when driving on the street just the lap belt.
 
BJS racing said:
I have never heard of a roll cage not being allowed on the street. Heck if anything I would think that they would be welcome. They make the car much safer and protects the car and driver alot more than a stock body or frame would. Hell I think they should give you a break on your insurance too.
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He may mean that the 5-point harness are not allowed on the street, they are not DOT approved. But you may be right that he means the roll bar, if he does I agree with you how can they not let you put in a safety device in a vehicle.

Chuck
 
I have been pulled over by the cops and they never said a word about my 5-point harness.....I think it depends on the cop.....the ones around here feel if they are good enogh for the NHRA to accept for a crash they are mor than adequate for the street. It's all up to the officer though.
 
I would fight that ticket. My understanding of the laws here in TX is that if it didn't come from the factory with a shoulder harness, it's not required. My 72 duster has the shoulder harnesses but I usually keep them folded up by the headliner. Yeah, I know, really dumb...

Greg
 
Thats cool. If you get pulled over and have to go to court this is exactly what I would do and say.

Your honor I have pulled my belts out of my car and brought them in today to show you and to prove a point. My factory seat belts built in 1972 that are 2"s wide have been around for 34 years and have no experation date to show when they are past their service life. They have been through 34 years of use and sun wear. Now the 3" belts that I am using are SFI approved and are only certified for use for 5 years then must be sent in to be retested for integerity and recertified. These belts also are manually adjustible and are locked into the setting they are put into with no latch that is 34 years old that I have to depend on to save my life. Also the 3 inch belt will distribute my weight in the event of an accident resulting in less chance of injury. These belts are also built out of a stronger material so the chance of breakage is lessened. So as you can see by what I have explained to you I have actually tried to make my vehicle safer.

How do you like them apples.
 
BJS racing said:
The only reason I put the upper belts in is because they gave me a ticket for not having a shoulder belt in the car.
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What kind of #@$#&(%#@ cop gave you a ticket for that? You should have fought that one. Did your car originally have shoulder belts? I do not know of any state that has required reto-fitting shoulder belts into an older car that did not come with them. Unless your car is from the later half of the 70's when shoulder belts became common, or if the cop looked and saw that they had been removed, they would have to take your word for it that it never had them.
 
More typical intrusive American politician B.S. When Ferrari first started shipping the F40 to this country they had to remove the 5 point harnesses and replace them with the pathetic little electric thing that ran up the door frame and automatically belted you in. Oh that would make you feel SO much more safe in a 200 MPH car. They left the 5 points in the car so you could immediately trash the garbage mandated by brainless American politicians and re-install the harnesses.
 
I've seen people get tickets for having a 5 point harness, while only wearing the lap part. There justification was that the harness wasn't being fully used. Now if they had only the lap part and no shoulder parts in the car no prob. If you have the submarine belt not in use while driving it's a ticket. Just like if you have the automatic shoulder belts that have the manual lap belt you have to use the lap with the shoulder and do your part. I've been waiting for new laws about changing out seat belts/air bags as a mileage/year service parts. Just to make us safer from us. I was hasseled before for not wearing a shoulder belt in my 64 dart. I explained that I put in lap belts as the car had none when it was manufactured, along with a license plate light. And of course he said that he couldn't tell how old the car was from behind. My A$$ I muttered to myself as the car has black plates and looks nowhere near a newer friggin car. Just a reason for asking for license and reg and now proof of current insurance.
 
A few years ago I was driving my 66 Valiant, with the original lap belt buckled up, and a female RCMP officer was approaching me in the opposite direction in a marked patrol car. We were going through a small town with a posted speed limit of 35 MPH and as she got close she made a sign about my shoulder type belt. Without giving it a thought, I smiled at her and used my index finger to point down to my lap ...belt. :sign9: WELL, before you could say "blow me" she had that bubble gum machine stuck to my back bumper, and was at my window with a very ANGRY look on her face. :scratch: It took me a while to explain to her that I had indeed been pointing to let her know that I was in fact wearing my factory installed seat belt, and that was all that was required by law. :angel7: Needless to say, since then I've never pointed to my lap when an officer gives me the "Put your seat belt on" signal. :glasses7:
 
OldVart said:
A few years ago I was driving my 66 Valiant, with the original lap belt buckled up, and a female RCMP officer was approaching me in the opposite direction in a marked patrol car. We were going through a small town with a posted speed limit of 35 MPH and as she got close she made a sign about my shoulder type belt. Without giving it a thought, I smiled at her and used my index finger to point down to my lap ...belt. :sign9: WELL, before you could say "blow me" she had that bubble gum machine stuck to my back bumper, and was at my window with a very ANGRY look on her face. :scratch: It took me a while to explain to her that I had indeed been pointing to let her know that I was in fact wearing my factory installed seat belt, and that was all that was required by law. :angel7: Needless to say, since then I've never pointed to my lap when an officer gives me the "Put your seat belt on" signal. :glasses7:
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HAHAHAHAHAHA that is awesome.
 
Dusterb318 said:
I have been pulled over by the cops and they never said a word about my 5-point harness.....I think it depends on the cop.....the ones around here feel if they are good enogh for the NHRA to accept for a crash they are mor than adequate for the street. It's all up to the officer though.
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The DOT approval is a federal law. It would require a federal officer like a Marshall to write you a ticket. A city, county or state officer has no jurisdiction over federal laws. That is why they have not said anything about your belts.

Here's something else to consider if you race your car at an NHRA track and if you run aftermarket belts you have to change them every 2 years.


Chuck
 
Thanks for all your help! Everyone has saved me alot of time, money, and alot of trouble.

I am thinking that I am going to run a set of seats like these...

http://shop.enthusiastworld.com/images/m/904/17869.jpg

Not necessarly those but a set like them...

As far as the belts go probably something like these (once I have the roll cage in and feel comfortable with it...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RCI%2D9211D&N=700+4294839020+4294920121+4294903731+4294818621+4294789620+4294903742+4294903726+4294789624+4294903749+115&autoview=sku

I have not looked in to the 5 point harnesses yet so... I am still really new to them. Any help or comment is greatly appreciated!
 
BJS racing said:
The only reason I put the upper belts in is because they gave me a ticket for not having a shoulder belt in the car.
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i though if the car didnt come factory with belts then it was ok, i got into a car accident with my dart (lap belts) and i got no hassle from them?
 
1966 dart wagon said:
i though if the car didnt come factory with belts then it was ok, i got into a car accident with my dart (lap belts) and i got no hassle from them?
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That's exactly right, they can't make you put something in that did not come from the factory. If they could we had better start getting ready for tickets for no air bags.

Chuck
 
I get enough hassel over the radial drag tires and I run the BFG's and they have more tread than most of the drag radials. If the belts are safe enough for a crash at the track at high speeds they should be DOT approved for street use.
 
340mopar you are exactly right. They cant do a thing to you if your car came from the factory with only lap belts. If they ever get laws that say we do need airbags, cats, and those over the shoulder harnesses you can bet your bottom dollar I will be knockin on The House of Representives and the Senates doors.

Dusterb318, your exactly right also. Cops around my area will pull a guy driving an older car over for anything and everything. Example (actually happened)

Driver: Lets rev it up a bit when we pull out
Passenger: Alright
Cop 1: *flips on his lights as the driver pulls out on the road*
Cop 2: Does the same as cop 1
Driver: What the hell is going on *pulls over on the side*
Cop 1 and 2: *stops and gets out of the car as cop 3 and 4 roll up*
Driver: Why did I get pulled over?
Cop 1: License, registration, and proof of insurance, please. *takes it back to his car*
Cop 1,2 3, 4 : *Meet in a hudle and talk*
Cop 1: You guys agree that he was hitting the rev limiter when we was pulling out?
Cop 2: I thought he was spinning tires.
Cop 3: I thought I saw him shooting nitrous oxidie off.
Cop 4: I thought it was cause of loud exhaust.

This is true and happened up at Cumberland, Maryland last year in the fall at the bi-annual car cruise. I was standing on the corner of the street when the guy pulled out and revved up the engine. Heard the entire thing then said in a loud tone, "Cops wanting a commision watch out guys!"
 
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