U can sell ur wedge stuff for good coin and be happier with a HEMI. Kim
572 RB Street motor advice?
- Thread starter beepbeep46
- Start date
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Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
Hey, I am on FBBO 95% of the time, 70 V-code Roadrunner w/a 71 block with 6bbl rods and crank, 292°/.509 cam, 1⅞" TTi headers, manual transmission, Dana 60, yada yada..
I'm having Southeastern Performance do a 572 build for me, with similar intentions regarding use. Local car shows, out of town "Mopar Events" when I can make it, and those incorporate race track time and show&shine. I will be going to my local track Wednesday night for Test and Tune which means I can line up some races, and I have a few friends who bring their "other brand" cars. Cruisin the Coast is a guaranteed event I go to for a whole week each year, and I was concerned about a solid roller cam and lifters because of the long stretches of traffic idling. My manual transmission may help keep the RPMs up a bit in traffic, but I didn't want to idle any higher than absolutely needed, and I got EDM oiling design lifters, so I'm not going to sweat it.
I considered the 572-13 heads, but I bought TrickFlow 270's. I'm having an Indy ModMan intake CNC'd for Max Wedge port size and using my Promax modded Holley 6bbl carbs. IF I find I want more flow than they can offer, F&B 3x2 EFI/DPI fuel injection would be my next move. I want to stay low profile to keep my N96 hood.
Here's my cam card, BUT the T&D rocker arms from B3E Racing Engines with the valvetrain geometry correction kit are 1.6 ratio, not 1.5, so lift will be about .665 and the TF 270s are the top option for up to .700 lift, solid roller.
I'm having Southeastern Performance do a 572 build for me, with similar intentions regarding use. Local car shows, out of town "Mopar Events" when I can make it, and those incorporate race track time and show&shine. I will be going to my local track Wednesday night for Test and Tune which means I can line up some races, and I have a few friends who bring their "other brand" cars. Cruisin the Coast is a guaranteed event I go to for a whole week each year, and I was concerned about a solid roller cam and lifters because of the long stretches of traffic idling. My manual transmission may help keep the RPMs up a bit in traffic, but I didn't want to idle any higher than absolutely needed, and I got EDM oiling design lifters, so I'm not going to sweat it.
I considered the 572-13 heads, but I bought TrickFlow 270's. I'm having an Indy ModMan intake CNC'd for Max Wedge port size and using my Promax modded Holley 6bbl carbs. IF I find I want more flow than they can offer, F&B 3x2 EFI/DPI fuel injection would be my next move. I want to stay low profile to keep my N96 hood.
Here's my cam card, BUT the T&D rocker arms from B3E Racing Engines with the valvetrain geometry correction kit are 1.6 ratio, not 1.5, so lift will be about .665 and the TF 270s are the top option for up to .700 lift, solid roller.
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Biomedtechguy, I see we think alike. As you can see this thread is old. To update, I took the plunge and bought B1 original head package with Stage 3 porting, T&D rockers, etc. It took 10 months to get them (Covid-Supply Chain). Engine shop was hit with Covid and dropped the ball on pistons, took 12 months to get them. My stepson passed from Covid in July 2021 and my son passed from it in December 2021. All of this has setback my plans. Currently engine is in pieces at engine shop. I ordered a Comp Cams solid roller XR286R, 286/292 Duration, .576/.582 Lift which should get me close to what I'm hoping for? I gave up the cross ram, going big dominator, or Holley Stealth kit. Car is in line to go to top level chassis shop for back half, 4 link, and full cage with swing outs. Car will handle the motor. Hope to get it to gather by Spring? In retrospect, I wish I had gone Gen II Hemi. Issues like parts availability, spark plug access, intake options, etc. To far down the road now!
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
Before I write about any "car stuff", I am sincerely sorry to hear about those who you have lost. I know of at least one person in my group of friends who was said to have died from COVID-19, but like so many, she had other health problems. You are resilient to be posting here, I encourage that, and I encourage you to continue your build pursuits. I am 60, and 2 years ago marked the 3rd year in a row that one of my friends since our teenage years died from cancer. Losing 3 friends in 3 years is a big part of the reason for me to stop "thinking and posting" about a stroker build, and getting on with doing it instead.
Apologies, I'm going to go into some detail as I don't post on FABO much.
For me, I have ONE bite at this apple, unless I have an unexpected windfall of money in the future, so I decided to do all I can with the short block at least, to where I would NEVER say "If only...." or "I wish I would have...." I am having to do this in "chunks" as money allows, and I'm blessed to have a builder and even parts providers who understand and have accommodated those limitations.
I started with the "new and improved" circa 2019 redesigned and newly released Bill Mitchell Products aluminum RB block, the big bore option (4.49" to be finished at 4.50)
My builder recommended and I happily chose Molnar for the crank and rods, and although I had a 4.35" stroke in mind to reduce piston speed, for a 541, when my builder said the 4.50 stroke crank was the same price, the block accommodates that longer stroke without clearancing, and although I could have "gotten away with" a large diameter "hemi" internal oil pickup at 4.35, my builder said he'd recommend an external pickup for safety, we agreed and the forum backed up my decision to go for the 4.50" stroke...Besides, FIVE-SEVENTY-TWO sounds even more awesome than a 541. LOL.
Diamond pistons, and I'm having the rings gapped for up to a 350HP shot of nitrous because I may want to add spray, IF I get traction and everything else that comes with somewhere around 700 HP and Torque, and my builder swears no downside to the bit of extra gap if I never add N²O.
EDM oiling design Johnson solid roller lifters, the dual springs and hardware that comes with the top choice TF 270s. I wrote this before, but I don't mind repeating because I am 100% "all in" for the concept of and execution of the Valvetrain Geometry Correction technology that Michael Beachel at B3 Racing Engines describes in his 4 (hopefully #5 coming soon) Tech Papers. He is machining the kit per my cam specs, lash in particular, and he knows I'm using TrickFlow.
My builder had mentioned the 572-13 Indy heads, but nothing but a mention, and I looked up the B-1 heads.
I'm happy to see you got a lot of replies suggesting the TF 270s, as that was my choice.
My biggest initial problem once the 572 is in my Roadrunner? Probably going to be a lack of traction...at 50 mph, on the highway if I stomp the gas pedal, at least that is what I've read and heard, but I certainly hope to overcome that problem.
The reason why I am staying with my 3x2 setup starts with my Roadrunner being a real V-code, that "V" will always be in the VIN, and I want to "honor" that legacy. The Promax mods make tuning easier, and the open plenum of the ModMan means the 572 can draw air and fuel from all 3 carbs.
I have 2 complete Holley jet kits, so 4 jets of each size from the low 60s into the high 90s will cover all 3 carbs tuning for the new setup, and "leaving power on the table" is not something I'm worried about.
Apologies, I'm going to go into some detail as I don't post on FABO much.
For me, I have ONE bite at this apple, unless I have an unexpected windfall of money in the future, so I decided to do all I can with the short block at least, to where I would NEVER say "If only...." or "I wish I would have...." I am having to do this in "chunks" as money allows, and I'm blessed to have a builder and even parts providers who understand and have accommodated those limitations.
I started with the "new and improved" circa 2019 redesigned and newly released Bill Mitchell Products aluminum RB block, the big bore option (4.49" to be finished at 4.50)
My builder recommended and I happily chose Molnar for the crank and rods, and although I had a 4.35" stroke in mind to reduce piston speed, for a 541, when my builder said the 4.50 stroke crank was the same price, the block accommodates that longer stroke without clearancing, and although I could have "gotten away with" a large diameter "hemi" internal oil pickup at 4.35, my builder said he'd recommend an external pickup for safety, we agreed and the forum backed up my decision to go for the 4.50" stroke...Besides, FIVE-SEVENTY-TWO sounds even more awesome than a 541. LOL.
Diamond pistons, and I'm having the rings gapped for up to a 350HP shot of nitrous because I may want to add spray, IF I get traction and everything else that comes with somewhere around 700 HP and Torque, and my builder swears no downside to the bit of extra gap if I never add N²O.
EDM oiling design Johnson solid roller lifters, the dual springs and hardware that comes with the top choice TF 270s. I wrote this before, but I don't mind repeating because I am 100% "all in" for the concept of and execution of the Valvetrain Geometry Correction technology that Michael Beachel at B3 Racing Engines describes in his 4 (hopefully #5 coming soon) Tech Papers. He is machining the kit per my cam specs, lash in particular, and he knows I'm using TrickFlow.
My builder had mentioned the 572-13 Indy heads, but nothing but a mention, and I looked up the B-1 heads.
I'm happy to see you got a lot of replies suggesting the TF 270s, as that was my choice.
My biggest initial problem once the 572 is in my Roadrunner? Probably going to be a lack of traction...at 50 mph, on the highway if I stomp the gas pedal, at least that is what I've read and heard, but I certainly hope to overcome that problem.
The reason why I am staying with my 3x2 setup starts with my Roadrunner being a real V-code, that "V" will always be in the VIN, and I want to "honor" that legacy. The Promax mods make tuning easier, and the open plenum of the ModMan means the 572 can draw air and fuel from all 3 carbs.
I have 2 complete Holley jet kits, so 4 jets of each size from the low 60s into the high 90s will cover all 3 carbs tuning for the new setup, and "leaving power on the table" is not something I'm worried about.
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
IF I were to know how far I was going with the stroker 2 years ago, I probably wouldn't have let "the forum" talk me out of the GERST or RMS triangulated 4 link that I was intent upon getting. I know there are 9 second cars on leaf springs, and I like the Calvert split mono leaf springs and sliders with Assassin traction bars, triple adjustable Viking Warrior eXtreme street rear, double adjustable front shocks that I have, but I have to make room for REALLY wide tires, and I may have gone the way I had intended.
I'll cross that bridge, sooner or later, when I get to the tubs.
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
@beepbeep46
Here's the last thing I'll post unless you or anyone else has any questions.
This is my "overly detailed but hey, I can't help myself" signature that covers a lot of the details of parts and systems in my 70 Roadrunner.
I will thank God when I find the time and a few $20 bills on the same Wednesday and a friend or 2 bring their cars to run the 1320 with me again. My "luck" is so bad, my 440 6bbl ran like a fine clock for 5 years or so, but when I REALLY wanted to get some use of it at the week of Cruisin the Coast October 2nd through the 8th, well...Tuesday night my wife and I set out in the Roadrunner for the Flamethrower Contest in Gulfport, we like watching that (she really likes it) and I wasn't more than a block or 2 away and knew something was wrong. Gasoline smell, rough, stumbling, poo-poo!! Long story short, I have a few fouled plugs that aren't firing properly. Too much to do once Cruisin the Coast is happening, with my wife's 421 Tripower GTO having taken up several days before the event, NOT knowing I had a problem with the 440, so only a day Wednesday to troubleshoot. Ignition system gone through, cleaned, silicone treated, that wasn't it. Check floats, adjusted 1 that was a little high, no bueno, so we took the GTO out together and I only brought the Roadrunner to Mopars In Da Bay on Thursday because it's a MOPAR event and my friends and acquaintances are always there.
So to finally get to the point, my #3 plug that's probably the most difficult one to access won't thread back in, and I may likely have to get a reverse thread chaser before I can get that new plug in. I'll do the other ones I haven't changed out yet, and that should get me by fine until the 572 goes in, hopefully by September 2023.
Best of luck to you and I look forward to YOUR experiences with the setup, because finding someone who builds a 572 for mostly street use, well that's not very common and we should be very helpful to each other!
Here's "the list" of my current setup. I will bold a couple of uncommon or very important items you may want to think about for yourself that I have that I believe will be VERY important to make the 572 work to its greatest potential as a system component.
1970 V-Code Roadrunner. 71 440, "6 pack" crank and rods, 292°/.509 Purple Stripe cam, CompCams flat tappet hyd. lifters, springs, 10° locks and retainers. 1 7/8" ceramic coated TTi headers w/Doug's 3"electronic cutouts, 4.10 Dana 60, Strange diff cover, Passon Performance a855 5 speed, Viking B-202 Double adjustable front, B517HF XS Triple adjustable rear shocks, Wraptor serpentine belt and accessory system, Vintage Air A/C, Borgeson Power Steering, Hydramax T.O. bearing conversion, HitMaster launch control, McLeod RXT dual disc clutch, Calvert split mono leaf springs and sliders, Assassin traction bars, Dakota Digital gauges, Strange Engineering chromoly driveshaft and yokes, 1350 U-Joints, Wilwood 4 wheel 6 piston caliper disc brakes, Line lock, Cold Case radiator, Mancini Racing driveshaft loop, US Car Tools subframe connectors, front and rear torque boxes. QA1 K-member and front suspension w/SPC UCAs. FBO ignition system, aluminum 6bbl intake and Promax modded Holley carbs, Promax upper and lower stainless braided fuel lines, Carter M6903 mech fuel pump, Innovate Motorsports dual wideband O2 system, Blue Thunder console, Scat Procar bucket seats.
Here's the last thing I'll post unless you or anyone else has any questions.
This is my "overly detailed but hey, I can't help myself" signature that covers a lot of the details of parts and systems in my 70 Roadrunner.
I will thank God when I find the time and a few $20 bills on the same Wednesday and a friend or 2 bring their cars to run the 1320 with me again. My "luck" is so bad, my 440 6bbl ran like a fine clock for 5 years or so, but when I REALLY wanted to get some use of it at the week of Cruisin the Coast October 2nd through the 8th, well...Tuesday night my wife and I set out in the Roadrunner for the Flamethrower Contest in Gulfport, we like watching that (she really likes it) and I wasn't more than a block or 2 away and knew something was wrong. Gasoline smell, rough, stumbling, poo-poo!! Long story short, I have a few fouled plugs that aren't firing properly. Too much to do once Cruisin the Coast is happening, with my wife's 421 Tripower GTO having taken up several days before the event, NOT knowing I had a problem with the 440, so only a day Wednesday to troubleshoot. Ignition system gone through, cleaned, silicone treated, that wasn't it. Check floats, adjusted 1 that was a little high, no bueno, so we took the GTO out together and I only brought the Roadrunner to Mopars In Da Bay on Thursday because it's a MOPAR event and my friends and acquaintances are always there.
So to finally get to the point, my #3 plug that's probably the most difficult one to access won't thread back in, and I may likely have to get a reverse thread chaser before I can get that new plug in. I'll do the other ones I haven't changed out yet, and that should get me by fine until the 572 goes in, hopefully by September 2023.
Best of luck to you and I look forward to YOUR experiences with the setup, because finding someone who builds a 572 for mostly street use, well that's not very common and we should be very helpful to each other!
Here's "the list" of my current setup. I will bold a couple of uncommon or very important items you may want to think about for yourself that I have that I believe will be VERY important to make the 572 work to its greatest potential as a system component.
1970 V-Code Roadrunner. 71 440, "6 pack" crank and rods, 292°/.509 Purple Stripe cam, CompCams flat tappet hyd. lifters, springs, 10° locks and retainers. 1 7/8" ceramic coated TTi headers w/Doug's 3"electronic cutouts, 4.10 Dana 60, Strange diff cover, Passon Performance a855 5 speed, Viking B-202 Double adjustable front, B517HF XS Triple adjustable rear shocks, Wraptor serpentine belt and accessory system, Vintage Air A/C, Borgeson Power Steering, Hydramax T.O. bearing conversion, HitMaster launch control, McLeod RXT dual disc clutch, Calvert split mono leaf springs and sliders, Assassin traction bars, Dakota Digital gauges, Strange Engineering chromoly driveshaft and yokes, 1350 U-Joints, Wilwood 4 wheel 6 piston caliper disc brakes, Line lock, Cold Case radiator, Mancini Racing driveshaft loop, US Car Tools subframe connectors, front and rear torque boxes. QA1 K-member and front suspension w/SPC UCAs. FBO ignition system, aluminum 6bbl intake and Promax modded Holley carbs, Promax upper and lower stainless braided fuel lines, Carter M6903 mech fuel pump, Innovate Motorsports dual wideband O2 system, Blue Thunder console, Scat Procar bucket seats.
Hemirunner
Well-Known Member
I’m going sub 5.50 1/8 mile/ 8 second quarter mile times on a 275 street radial and leaf springs. You don’t need big tires and tubs or fancy rear suspensions.
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
That makes me feel better.
I don't know how you are doing that on a 275, but I may lean on you for help once I get the 572 in and I've at least made a video or 2 and tried some of my many traction aids, made adjustments, made an effort....
I'd like to have enough tire/wheel width just using the relatively new AMD rear tubs, they look really nice.
I have had a few Mopar guys say no traction with engine output similar to what I expect, and WAY more chassis and suspension "tricks" than I have.
I guess it's the combo and being able to dial it all in.
Hemirunner
Well-Known Member
I’m 1200hp+ at the tire and 3900lbs. If you wanna do something, talk to the people that are doing what you want to do. You’re challenge will be that clutch and manual transmission. The only thing I’d add to your combo is a programable digital ignition like the MSD 7531. You could easily manage launching torque with that ignition. I ran one with my nitrous hemi combo.That makes me feel better.
I don't know how you are doing that on a 275, but I may lean on you for help once I get the 572 in and I've at least made a video or 2 and tried some of my many traction aids, made adjustments, made an effort....
I'd like to have enough tire/wheel width just using the relatively new AMD rear tubs, they look really nice.
I have had a few Mopar guys say no traction with engine output similar to what I expect, and WAY more chassis and suspension "tricks" than I have.
I guess it's the combo and being able to dial it all in.
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
I looked at that MSD 7531, very trick piece!
Well, I am going to use the new version (smaller diameter billet aluminum distributor) of the Progression Ignition system. If you aren't familiar with it, the advance is fully programmable in small increments via phone app. It also has vacuum advance which I want. Two-step is in the works as is a "wired" N²O trigger retard capability.
Here's a quick self generated table:
I do have @weedburner HitMaster launch control, when setup helps hold the clutch engagement via hydraulic solenoid in the "sweet spot" once determined and adjusted for traction conditions. Not too much to spin excessively nor smoke the McLeod RXT dual disc clutch setup. McLeod recommended the "1200HP" version, not because of my anticipated power output but the friction material is ceramic metallic, and should handle the heat.
I'm open and especially grateful to you with the experience you bring for any advice, and I appreciate anyone who shows an interest in what I'm working on. Thanks
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