65 Commando stock brake set up

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73Charger318

73Charger318

Member Rt 66 Mopar Club
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As some know I picked up a 65 Commando about a month ago that has set for 30 plus years. Drums are stuck on, but managed to get the back two off finally. Finding nine inch drums on the car, and I don't think that is correct. I might add that the secondary braking material came off with the drum on both sides.

Thinking maybe since I had power brakes the drums were correct I bought 9 inch drums and 9x2 brakes. First thing I noticed was the shoes coming off the car had more braking material than the new ones. Same 2 inch width, but more braking surface length on the old shoes. Other things I noticed missing according the 65 service manual:

No push rods on cylinder
No parking brake cable and guide
No star wheel lever. (nothing to auto adjust the star wheel unless you crawled under the car and did it yourself)

I've bought these parts to try to put the brakes back together as the service manual shows, but now I'm second guessing rather I have the right drums and brakes, and rather the original brakes had these missing parts.

Can anyone comfirm that all V8 cars should have 10 inch drums? I'm measuring internal diameter and the ones that came off are only 9 inch. Is there a way to tell what should be on the car by measuring the backing plate? I'm starting to wonder if I had 10 inch brakes inside 9 inch drums. Also can anyone confirm stock set up on the push rods, parking brake cable, and star wheel lever?

Thanks!
 
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"Commando" is an engine designation, not a car model. I presume you have a Valiant? I am not an expert on narrow body As, but I would agree that V8 cars would probably have 10" drums — I know they did in 1967, at least. Do you know that this was originally a V8 car? What does the data plate show?
 
My question is do you really have a 65 ( dart, barracuda?) that came with the commando engine

OR

do you have a slant 6 car with an engine swap.

Typically 9" brakes would have been on slant 6 cars
 
My 65 Formula S Barracuda came with 10" brakes from the factory. 65'
 
So there are a few things in this question that I think he needs help with.
One is yes most (key word) V8 cars did have 10 inch drums. But as others point out plenty can change in fifty years. So check your VIN if it is actually a V8 car. If it isn’t originally then yes you would have 9 inch drums.
Next is that the brakes seem to be missing most of the key hardware. It doesn’t matter if 9 or 10 inch drums, the mechanism will appear the same. Same parts but different sizes.(adjuster cable is different) but any photo will be ok for a reference. If you purchase the hardware and adjuster kits from Rockauto they include everything.
Lastly be cautious of what shoes you buy. There were three changes to the shoes in as many years and later shoes require you to use the later adjusters.
I have versions of all three shoes for the 10 inch and can provide photos.
 
Also of note is that with the improvements in brake material, the friction material will be sized according to material characteristics. You can’t always judge.
 
mvh said:
"Commando" is an engine designation, not a car model. I presume you have a Valiant? I am not an expert on narrow body As, but I would agree that V8 cars would probably have 10" drums — I know they did in 1967, at least. Do you know that this was originally a V8 car? What does the data plate show?
Click to expand...
Commando, meaning 273 V8 four barrel. Yes all original V8 car. Data plate, vin, and engine casting numbers show this. I think I'm going to switch it back to 10 inch drums and buy new shoes. Who knows what happened over nearly 60 years. Just trying to understand these brakes. I did see an old video online of a guy doing rear brakes on a slant 6 1965 barracuda. Didn't get great looks but I don't think his car had these missing internal parts either.
 
AbodyBB said:
So there are a few things in this question that I think he needs help with.
One is yes most (key word) V8 cars did have 10 inch drums. But as others point out plenty can change in fifty years. So check your VIN if it is actually a V8 car. If it isn’t originally then yes you would have 9 inch drums.
Next is that the brakes seem to be missing most of the key hardware. It doesn’t matter if 9 or 10 inch drums, the mechanism will appear the same. Same parts but different sizes.(adjuster cable is different) but any photo will be ok for a reference. If you purchase the hardware and adjuster kits from Rockauto they include everything.
Lastly be cautious of what shoes you buy. There were three changes to the shoes in as many years and later shoes require you to use the later adjusters.
I have versions of all three shoes for the 10 inch and can provide photos.
Click to expand...
V8525xxxxx - yes V8 car. I did get my missing items from Rock Auto. I would love to see the shoe photos. I would like to get the brakes back to what they should be. Now to work on those front drums and see what's hidden under them!
 
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So to help start things, the most commonly available shoe is the 331. It was used starting in 69. It is also the only shoe currently produced.
The photo is a 331 shoe and it has the bent over tap where the shoe rides on the backing plate as well as the adjuster pivot pressed into the shoe next to the star wheel.

5DDF9C7D-5C1A-4E25-8A43-5F5B39BE0082.png
 
If you have new shoes then you will need a reference photo from a 69 and up manual. That shoe requires the adjuster that pulls up.
 
Sorry for the constant posts. Things are coming back slowly here. As for friction material size the smaller shoe goes toward the front of the car.
 
Now that I’m home. Here is a photo of the 256 frame shoe. It would be “correct” for your 65. Notice the area where they ride on the backing plate does not have tabs. Also there is no pivot for the brake adjuster. And the ear above the star wheel is shorter

668D9E24-16A8-4FF5-8E3D-FDF1D2F0BCC6.jpeg
 
And finally the 288 shoe. This is correct for my 68. Notice it has the tabs for the backing plate no pivot pin and tabs over the star wheel are also short.
 
Now I have found guys here on FABO that have said they used the 151 frame shoe and had satisfactory brakes. (151 is the Phord mud-stain 10x1 3/4 shoe. I haven’t tried it but seems promising. I have compared the 256 and the 151 and they seem to be identical. But appearances can be deceiving
 
Being a 65, Your front drums may be swedged onto the hubs. To replace them the swedging will need to be cut to separate them from the hub.

Take the spindle cap/nut off and try removing hub with the drum and they may come off.
 
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My 65 Barracuda is a true Commando motored car, but is not a Formula S. These are the front drums that are on it. Someone else may know what they are by looking, but I don’t. They will be getting replaced by BBP disc’s when I pull it apart and redo it. These just keep it a roller until then!

88A3D290-97A4-4592-99DD-D88BF0088397.jpeg
 
JDMopar said:
My 65 Barracuda is a true Commando motored car, but is not a Formula S. These are the front drums that are on it. Someone else may know what they are by looking, but I don’t. They will be getting replaced by BBP disc’s when I pull it apart and redo it. These just keep it a roller until then!

View attachment 1716265656
Click to expand...
Those look like 9" drums to me
 
To answer to the missing pieces…9” drum brakes do not have wheel cylinder push rods. The piston in the wheel cylinder is flat on the outside facing the shoe, and there is a tab on the shoe that is pushed by the flatted piston end.

All V8 A body cars came with 10” brakes, front and rear.
 
cosgig said:
To answer to the missing pieces…9” drum brakes do not have wheel cylinder push rods. The piston in the wheel cylinder is flat on the outside facing the shoe, and there is a tab on the shoe that is pushed by the flatted piston end.

All V8 A body cars came with 10” brakes, front and rear.
Click to expand...

Geoff,

'65's didn't have auto adjusters, did they?
 
cosgig said:
All V8 A body cars came with 10” brakes, front and rear.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree, That's not true for Early A's. It depended on the trim package and options and build date.

www.forabodiesonly.com

10" brakes on formula S cars?

a question for anybody with an original 65 or 66 formula S car does it have 10" brakes on it? Thanks for any responses. The reason I ask is I have a 65 Valiant 2nd owner have owned it since 1971 it has a hi-po 273 4-speed and has 10" brakes on it. Have always claimed its basically a formula S...
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com

www.forabodiesonly.com

1965 DART GT 273 4BBL

Anyone have documentation that this combo existed?
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com

65 was the transition year for 10" drums standard for V8s

@chryslerfat @pishta
 
chewy said:
I have to disagree, That's not true for Early A's. It depended on the trim package and options and build date.

www.forabodiesonly.com

10" brakes on formula S cars?

a question for anybody with an original 65 or 66 formula S car does it have 10" brakes on it? Thanks for any responses. The reason I ask is I have a 65 Valiant 2nd owner have owned it since 1971 it has a hi-po 273 4-speed and has 10" brakes on it. Have always claimed its basically a formula S...
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com

www.forabodiesonly.com

1965 DART GT 273 4BBL

Anyone have documentation that this combo existed?
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com

65 was the transition year for 10" drums standard for V8s

@chryslerfat @pishta
Click to expand...
Correct my early built 1965 is Commando sport package 4 speed with 9 inch power brakes matching the build sheet.
 
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