67 Dart Conv. - No Tail Lights, Park Lights, Flashers

[Mopar_Parr]

Hello All, I'm new here but have read for years. I have the dreded problem of not having any lights other than the head lights basically. I have read a bunch about it but haven't been able to nail down the problem. Let me explain.

Headlights come on with the switch fully pulled out, blinkers front and rear work as they should. Courtesy lights are on but when i press the brake they get dimmer. No continous running tail/brake lights, no brake lights when engaging the brake / Stop light switch, no emergency flasher lights. No dash instrument lights. I checked the following: Fuse box, headlight switch wiring harness, headlight switch, stop light switch (checked for continuity), Door closure switches. I have power to the headlight switch via both the black tracer (L1) wire fed by the Q3 Fuse Block Feed, and from the L8 Dome Stop Tail location on the fuse block to the headlight switch. Lastly, the horn is stuck on, I believe this problem to be in the steering column, but havent checked it yet. I have not checked to see if the emergency flaher switch is working properly either.

I did put jumper wires in the headlight switch harness(at separate times), I jump from L1 (black tracer wire) to L6 Park Lights ( Yellow tracer); L1 to L7 Rear Tail lights(Black wire); L1 to E1 Instrument Panel (Tan wire), L1 to L2 Foot Dimmer Switch (Lt. Green wire) . All of these function properly when jumping within the harness.

Does anyone have any suggestion on where to go next?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[ragtopfury]

Year, make and model of the car of which you speak?

Lmao... I retract my question. I did not even read it in your title. DUH! My bad.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Hello All, I'm new here but have read for years. I have the dreded problem of not having any lights other than the head lights basically. I have read a bunch about it but haven't been able to nail down the problem. Let me explain.

Headlights come on with the switch fully pulled out, blinkers front and rear work as they should. Courtesy lights are on but when i press the brake they get dimmer. No continous running tail/brake lights, no brake lights when engaging the brake / Stop light switch, no emergency flasher lights. No dash instrument lights. I checked the following: Fuse box, headlight switch wiring harness, headlight switch, stop light switch (checked for continuity), Door closure switches. I have power to the headlight switch via both the black tracer (L1) wire fed by the Q3 Fuse Block Feed, and from the L8 Dome Stop Tail location on the fuse block to the headlight switch. Lastly, the horn is stuck on, I believe this problem to be in the steering column, but havent checked it yet. I have not checked to see if the emergency flaher switch is working properly either.

I did put jumper wires in the headlight switch harness(at separate times), I jump from L1 (black tracer wire) to L6 Park Lights ( Yellow tracer); L1 to L7 Rear Tail lights(Black wire); L1 to E1 Instrument Panel (Tan wire), L1 to L2 Foot Dimmer Switch (Lt. Green wire) . All of these function properly when jumping within the harness.

Does anyone have any suggestion on where to go next?

Thanks,
Chris

Something to check I didn't see in your list.

Is there a ground wire running from the metal dash frame to the body in place?

If this is an A-Body, it should be located in the passenger side footwell running from the dash to a bolt in the body.

If not, run one. Make sure it has good contact.

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Year, make and model of the car of which you speak?

1967 Dodge Dart GT Convertible.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Too much going on here.

You need a wiring diagram.

Mymopar.com

classiccarwiring.com

Then you need to understand that the power for the brakes and the headlights DO NOT go thru a fuse, they are hot all the time.

The instrument panel and map lights have nothing to do with the brake lights directly.

Your problem could be the turn signal switch, connector or wiring

Could be bulbs

Could be wiring

Could be grounds

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Too much going on here.

You need a wiring diagram.

Mymopar.com

classiccarwiring.com

Then you need to understand that the power for the brakes and the headlights DO NOT go thru a fuse, they are hot all the time.

The instrument panel and map lights have nothing to do with the brake lights directly.

Your problem could be the turn signal switch, connector or wiring

Could be bulbs

Could be wiring

Could be grounds

I am painfully aware of the wiring diagrams hence the wire numbers I’ve stated. I’ve studied it, tail lights go through the fuse block. Take a look

 

[Mattax]

This should be pretty simple, and he already has the diagram.
Just needs help in what it shows and how it can help with diagnosing.

Headlights come on with the switch fully pulled out,

So. L1 has power and the headlight circuit is fine.

blinkers front and rear work as they should.

By this you mean turn signals. They should only work with the key position in run, or accessory.
They are not fused in '67. The flasher acts like a reseting circuit breaker.
This circuit is fine. And that's good to know because it does tie in with the hazard and stop circuits.

Courtesy lights are on but when i press the brake they get dimmer.

That would be normal with the engine off. Brake lights draw a fair amount of power.

No continous running tail/brake lights

Was this checked with the headlight switch one position out or two?
'67 Dart the parking lights (front) only turn off when the headlights are turned on.

No dash instrument lights.

They are on a branch of the same circuit that powers the parking, tail lights and maybe the dome and courtesy lights.
First the power needs to go through the fuse to the headlight switch B2 terminal, then headswitch rheostat then back to teh fuse box (tan wire) to a 2 amp fuse, then to the orange wires for the instrument panel and radio lamps.

I checked the following: Fuse box, headlight switch wiring harness, headlight switch, stop light switch (checked for continuity)

I'd double check the fuse for the parking lights, stop lights and dome. They should always be hot if the battery is connected.
If both sides are hot, then yes maybe you are looking for a break after the fuse. If not, then its break in the feed.

Door closure switches

These are on the return from the dome and courtesy lights. In other words the switches are between the hot and the ground. Any one switch will complete the circuit.

I have power to the headlight switch via both the black tracer (L1) wire fed by the Q3 Fuse Block Feed, and from the L8 Dome Stop Tail location on the fuse block to the headlight switch.

Sounds wrong but lets look at the diagram.

Lastly, the horn is stuck on, I believe this problem to be in the steering column, but havent checked it yet. I have not checked to see if the emergency flaher switch is working properly either.

In '67 the horn relay is next to the radiator support. The horn power comes right off the altenator's Batt terminal. The power to trigger the relay goes up the steering column to the horn switch and then back down and makes its way to the relay in the engine bay.

I did put jumper wires in the headlight switch harness(at separate times), I jump from L1 (black tracer wire) to L6 Park Lights ( Yellow tracer); L1 to L7 Rear Tail lights(Black wire); L1 to E1 Instrument Panel (Tan wire), L1 to L2 Foot Dimmer Switch (Lt. Green wire) . All of these function properly when jumping within the harness.

OK.

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Thanks for this reponse, I appreciate the feedback and will look into it. Yes the turn signals only work on run and accessory. The continuous tail light doesn’t work when the light switch is fully pulled out or half pulled.

 

[Mattax]

I have power to the headlight switch via both the black tracer (L1) wire fed by the Q3 Fuse Block Feed,

lets see if this is just a misunderstanding.

Both L1 and Q3 wires get power from the main splice.
L1 feeds terminal B1 on the headlight switch (headlights).
Q3 feeds two (sometimes three) fuses in the fuse block.
One of the fuses is wired to the B2 terminal on the headlight switch. The same fuse is wired to the hazard and stop switches.

And then the fuse box something like this

This should get you a step toward narrowing it down.
If the Q3 feed is hot, then the question whether the pink wire D31 to the hazard switch or L8 to the Headlight Switch B2 terminal is hot.

We can get into the headlight switch and steering column in another post. But the problem may be before the switches.

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Thanks again for the help. The B2 terminal is hot via the L8 (pink wire). By hazard, are you referring to the emergency flasher or the emergency flasher switch?

Chris

 

[Mattax]

Thanks again for the help. The B2 terminal is hot via the L8 (pink wire). By hazard, are you referring to the emergency flasher or the emergency flasher switch?

Chris

Lemme check the drawings!
In this case 'Haz' I'm referring to the emergency flasher unit.

edit: ^Added another cheat sheet ^

 

[Mopar_Parr]

I think this is the emergency flasher.

 

[Mattax]

If L8 is hot, and L1 can be jumped to all the output terminals and they work, then the headlight switch is suspect.
L8 is supposed to power the parking light, rear lights and the instrument lights.

Dome light is another story. It's a third circuit in the headlight switch and acts like the door switches.

 

[Mattax]

Here's an overall view of these things connecting

Emergency flasher on my '67 Barracuda.

^Instrument Panel removed and camara view looking through to the left side^
Wire routing on the Dart is different but I think the fusebox, brake switch and flasher units are all in the same locations for Dart, Valiant, and Barracuda

 

[Dana67Dart]

I’ve studied it, tail lights go through the fuse block. Take a look

I stand corrected!

 

[Mopar_Parr]

I stand corrected!

No worries. What part of CO are you from?

 

[Dana67Dart]

Fort Collins

 

[Mopar_Parr]

If L8 is hot, and L1 can be jumped to all the output terminals and they work, then the headlight switch is suspect.
L8 is supposed to power the parking light, rear lights and the instrument lights.

Dome light is another story. It's a third circuit in the headlight switch and acts like the door switches.
View attachment 1716206391

Okay. I had a new headlamp switch in it, but didn’t have an emergency flasher installed, it wasn’t there or connected. Subsequently I’ve put in the flasher, but took the new switch back to the store after the flasher was installed. Should I try the another headlight switch again now that I have emergency flasher hooked up?

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Fort Collins

Broomfield here.

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Here's an overall view of these things connecting
View attachment 1716206395

Emergency flasher on my '67 Barracuda.
View attachment 1716206396

^Instrument Panel removed and camara view looking through to the left side^
Wire routing on the Dart is different but I think the fusebox, brake switch and flasher units are all in the same locations for Dart, Valiant, and Barracuda

Is the left of the steering wheel post, near the bulkhead?

 

[Mattax]

On a convertable, courtesy lights are basically the same as the dome light. Yes?

And the courtesy lights work when a door is open?

The brake lights don't seem to light up, but draw power when the brake is applied.
Tail lights and parking lights work when their feed wires are directly connected to to power.

How is the headlight connector condition?
Dana and I (and others) have both had to deal with damage there.
If the terminal backs out of the plastic connector there will be poor or no connection.

 

[Mattax]

Okay. I had a new headlamp switch in it, but didn’t have an emergency flasher installed, it wasn’t there or connected.

Shouldn't make any difference.
The wire goes there and then to the brake switch because it was an easy way for them to connect power to both.

The flasher unit is above the hand brake.

 

[Mopar_Parr]

On a convertable, Courtesy lights are basically the sameas the dome light. Yes?

And the courtesy lights work when a door is open?

The brake lights don't seem to light up, but draw power when the brake is applied.
Tail lights and parking lights work when their feed wires are directly connected to to power.

How is the headlight connector condition?
Dana and I (and others) have both had to deal with damage there.
If the terminal backs out of the plastic connector there will be poor or no connection.

Yes, Courtesy lights are the same as the dome.

I checked the head light connector, in spots and it was melted. I replaced it and then jumped it to test the park, tail, and instrument lights. I rewired the connector correctly based on everything working via jumping from L1 wire to the E1,L7, L6, L2. Everything lights up from the wiring harness.

 

[Mopar_Parr]

Yes, Courtesy lights are the same as the dome.

I checked the head light connector, in spots and it was melted. I replaced it and then jumped it to test the park, tail, and instrument lights. I rewired the connector correctly based on everything working via jumping from L1 wire to the E1,L7, L6, L2. Everything lights up from the wiring harness.

The weird part is that the courtesy lights stay on when the door is closed and dim them the brake is applied.

 

[Mattax]

I checked the head light connector, in spots and it was melted. I replaced it and then jumped it to test the park, tail, and instrument lights. I rewired the connector correctly based on everything working via jumping from L1 wire to the E1,L7, L6, L2. Everything lights up from the wiring harness.

I don't understand the rewiring jump test. What happend to wire L8?
If there is power on B2, the rest should work with the switch on.
L1 connects to B1. It only powers the headlight terminal H. There is a 15 amp circuit breaker built in.
L8 connects to B2. It powers terminals P (L6), R (L2)and Inst (E1)in position 1, and R and Inst with headlights on.

The weird part is that the courtesy lights stay on when the door is closed and dim them the brake is applied.

First part means something inthe M2 circuit is grounding.
Is the headlight switch knob turned off of the dome light position?

Second part. What does the ammeter show?
Do the brake lights come on ?