700 Hp on NA pump gas

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blue missile

blue missile

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So I am now starting to get back into the motor phase of the project and would like some discussion of the options for a NA 700 Hp small block build.
With the advent of a 4.25" crank and say 6" rods and a 4.22" bore I think it is doable.
now is the time to educate me.
 
blue missile said:
So I am now starting to get back into the motor phase of the project and would like some discussion of the options for a NA 700 Hp small block build.
With the advent of a 4.25" crank and say 6" rods and a 4.22" bore I think it is doable.
now is the time to educate me.
Click to expand...
Nascar engine!
 
Going to need a good set of heads and an after market block would on the list too. Oh yeah and some$$$
 
Anybody have info handy on what Glidden's small block Plymouth Arrow ran and HP in Pro Stock as a reference?
 
Locomotion said:
Anybody have info handy on what Glidden's small block Plymouth Arrow ran and HP in Pro Stock as a reference?
Click to expand...


I have seen some of the Glidden stuff floating around over the years. They were low 9 high 8 second cars with lenco 4 speeds. They'd be way quicker and faster today just due to 5 speeds and better clutches.

That said, the OP needs at the minimum a well prepped set of W-2 heads or better. And some kind of aftermarket block. There are still some X blocks floating around. R blocks are out there. You will need an R block with standard deck height for that stroke.
 
That's a tall ask on pump gas for even a stroked small block. Unless you plan on using an R3 block you are pushing the limits of a 340 at 700HP. Yes I know there are guys who have built them and drag them but they are all running race gas and a ton of nitrous. Even the Nascar P5 engine mentioned above runs on a combo of Ethanol and 98 octane so its not really a pump gas engine either. Based on the stroke and bore you are referencing then an R3 is the only block you could use, but your still looking at probably 11:1 comp ratio. Indy sells a 440 small block R3 crate motor running 10.25:1 that they rate at 600hp. Thats about as high comp ratio an iron head engine on pump gas can take reliably. It is possible however if you use E85 and aluminum heads you could bump that up to 11:1 or maybe even 11.5:1.
 
aeonmcallister said:
That's a tall ask on pump gas for even a stroked small block. Unless you plan on using an R3 block you are pushing the limits of a 340 at 700HP. Yes I know there are guys who have built them and drag them but they are all running race gas and a ton of nitrous. Even the Nascar P5 engine mentioned above runs on a combo of Ethanol and 98 octane so its not really a pump gas engine either. Based on the stroke and bore you are referencing then an R3 is the only block you could use, but your still looking at probably 11:1 comp ratio. Indy sells a 440 small block R3 crate motor running 10.25:1 that they rate at 600hp. Thats about as high comp ratio an iron head engine on pump gas can take reliably. It is possible however if you use E85 and aluminum heads you could bump that up to 11:1 or maybe even 11.5:1.
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I run a measured 11.01:1 on iron headed pump gas. When I put the W-2 heads on I'm going to make it 11.75:1 and still run it on pump gas.

He can do 700 HP if he has enough head to feed that many inches at 7000 RPM. That's what it will take.
 
As already stated several times, plan on starting with a R block (or the equivalent) especially if you plan on pushing 625-650+.
 
yellow rose said:
I run a measured 11.01:1 on iron headed pump gas. When I put the W-2 heads on I'm going to make it 11.75:1 and still run it on pump gas.

He can do 700 HP if he has enough head to feed that many inches at 7000 RPM. That's what it will take.
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As I stated, I know their out there. Yes hes also gonna need some big breathers as well. $$$ The original OP did not state enough info as to what the primary use of said motor will be but unless its drag racing and pump gas is mandated I think running that high compression on PG is asking for trouble. If its drag racing and your pulling gas from the same Sunoco pump every race than ok but I had a 700hp high comp street motor years back and picked up bad gas to many times. If its me dumping 20g,s into a PG motor today I'm staying under 10:5.1.
 
700 isnt easy.
Dyno's can tell someone anything, but track results tell the real tale.
140mph @ 3200 pounds is a touch over 700. My old 422 W5 did that after i sold the car with some enhancements to where i was at with it.
14 to 1, aggressive roller, jesel rocker gear, gas ported slugs, max ported w5's, and the rest. That was all done at Best machine, and the attention to detail there is outstanding.
Its going to take well sorted Indy heads, new Victor head, or W7-9 head motor to TRULY make 700 that can be backed up with an ET slip. When i had that combo it went 9.85 at 135. Car weighed 3350 with my butt in it and we figured a true 650 horse. Less aggressive roller, 13 to 1, yada yada.
Gave away quite a bit with the cam alone because i wanted to street drive it and not eat springs and seats.

With pump gas, W8-W9 i would look at, be mighty tough with most anything else. Pump gas compression alone from 13-14 to 1 compression is probably pushing 50 horse your losing.
 
For pump gas your gonna need around 380-400 cfm plus heads and a big solid roller.

Is there such beast ?
 
yellow rose said:
I have seen some of the Glidden stuff floating around over the years. They were low 9 high 8 second cars with lenco 4 speeds. They'd be way quicker and faster today just due to 5 speeds and better clutches.
Click to expand...

Arrow ran in the 8.40s at 156+....using the old 132 ft speed trap...and usually with the laundry out before that....
 
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273 said:
For pump gas your gonna need around 380-400 cfm plus heads and a big solid roller.

Is there such beast ?
Click to expand...

W8 and W9 specs
 
I haven't been following this. Is the OP building a race car?
 
I'd go with the W8 out of those two needs little less cam and CR to reach his goals.
 
The object here is long distance top end not quarter mile. This car will not have laundry.
Your static compression is only one component of the DCR and it is the DCR that determines the octane requirements. I was planning an R3 siamese water block build, I was thinking somewhere around 470Ci.
The actual build is in "Members Restorations" under Birth of the Blue Missile.
 
blue missile said:
The object here is long distance top end not quarter mile. This car will not have laundry.
Your static compression is only one component of the DCR and it is the DCR that determines the octane requirements. I was planning an R3 siamese water block build, I was thinking somewhere around 470Ci.
The actual build is in "Members Restorations" under Birth of the Blue Missile.
Click to expand...


I'd love to read it but I went back 5 pages and didn't see it. Can you post a link.

Thanks
 
Not doable with the parameters you've listed: naturally aspirated & pump fuel. It is possible with boost or race fuel with available heads.
 
moper said:
Not doable with the parameters you've listed: naturally aspirated & pump fuel. It is possible with boost or race fuel with available heads.
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I kind of feel the same way. It d work with boost. But if he feels like having a go at it... far be it from me to stop anyone from trying.

I guess from a certain point of view, if you look at AndyF's 470 B engine, he did make 700 HP. The small block lacks in some areas of the big block. Perhaps, just perhaps.... oh heck! I just don't know... could it be possible?

What heads did AndyF have in top and what did they flow?
Can all the numbers add up?
 
If 700hp NA was my goal I would go gen 3 Hemi , no 700hp small block around here can run on pump gas.
 
My 10.3. To 1 small block made 632 with a little tuning left in it ran out of time on 93 so its worth a shot to try I think you could get close. Shoot me a message for more details hate to get run through the coals over my combo and dyno numbers even though as soon as I get it in there will be time slips to put with the hundreds of others I have
 
I agree with some of the others. I’m not engine master by any stretch, but I think gen 3 hemi or boost would be the best way to reach the “pump gas 700hp” goal. Especailly talking power under the curve.

Andrew, chime in, with all the high tech and progressive stuff you’ve worked into your car, why no boost?


Hemi Apache heads flow massive numbers, a 392 stroker with boost I would think 700 would be easy.

Joe
 
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