72 duster resto

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assessing journals and bearings is really really tough to do via picture/video. i mean, if they're totally waxed *** you know it, but the the subtle wear that's very, very difficult to ascertain without being there and having eyes, hands and tools on it.

pull the mains and see what time it is, that may change everything.

if you have a machinist that's close by and willing to take a look for not a ton of cash, it's worth running by and having their professional opinion.

the bores look a sight, but that may just be the photography, lighting or some build up. i'd be interested to see how they clean up. pick the worst looking one to start on and you'll know pretty quick how the rest will play out!
 
Alright crank pulled out, bearings definitely shot on the mains. One had deep grooves and inflicted gouges on opposite side on the crank journal :( Photos attached but I realize it's hard to judge with those. But trust me, deep grooves there and that could cause pain later like slipping a bearing, etc.

Knowing the machine shop down the street charges $400 for a bore / $400 for a hone - I might not even bother with asking for a quote for R&R on this crank. Any suggestions on a new one if I ditch this thing?

Also, pulled out the cam
202136 printed on one end
Measured
1.56-1.24”
Rocker ratio = 1.5
.48 duration so probably the purple
484 single pattern camshaft Purple Mopar cam P4120231 -->Lift .484/.484

Also started honing the cylinders
Lookin' much better for sure. Small spot on one cylinder that looks like it has some pitting that I might see if I can hone out.

Overall, my plan is:
Figure out my crank options
Hone all the cylinders
Decode my cam
Deep clean the block, oil passages, water jackets(acid wash)
heat, acetone, prime and paint the block
Rebuild kit with new bearings everywhere, new gaskets, etc
Slowly learn how to build back the block for install

I know it's not a perfect route but given that the alternative requires over $1k more for a machine shop bore & hone + oversized pistons i'd just rather put a new crank in, put it all back best I can and send it


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I would scour market place and see if you can find a 5.2 or 5.9 magnum for $200-400. Only common issue on those is the cracked heads (which imo is a non-issue on 90% of them) and they often need cam bearings replaced.
 
yeah, them journals look pooched.

400/400 on a bore & hone sounds a little high to me, but maybe i'm wayyyy out of touch. i'd ask them what they'd do a crank for-- it's likely gonna need to go 10/10 so i don't think you'd be able to polish that out.

if they want a grip of dough on the crank i'd poke around for a production machine shop or a crank grinder, i don't know (exactly) where you are, but maybe a trip to a larger city with more industry might be beneficial in regards to machine work.

2nd hand cranks are always a gamble, but maybe between the classifieds here and book marketplace, offerup, etx you can source something.

how's the cam look? and the heads?
 
junkyardhero said:
yeah, them journals look pooched.

400/400 on a bore & hone sounds a little high to me, but maybe i'm wayyyy out of touch. i'd ask them what they'd do a crank for-- it's likely gonna need to go 10/10 so i don't think you'd be able to polish that out.

if they want a grip of dough on the crank i'd poke around for a production machine shop or a crank grinder, i don't know (exactly) where you are, but maybe a trip to a larger city with more industry might be beneficial in regards to machine work.

2nd hand cranks are always a gamble, but maybe between the classifieds here and book marketplace, offerup, etx you can source something.

how's the cam look? and the heads?
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Im in the bay area CA so prices are always high here. Cam looks great, cam bearings look like they need replacing though. The heads are in decent shape, could use some porting and valve work but theyll run as is.

On the crank im trying the shoestring sandpaper wd40 trick to see how they turn out. Hard to tell if the gouges are too deep.

Its a coin toss since the cost of a full set of bearings, rings, gaskets etc could be totally wasted if I try to go cheap and it doesnt work out well... Plus sunk costs on time.

But honestly, I might be overthinking idealizing what the build needs to be. Easy to spiral seeking perfection.

Probably safer and cheaper to build with a magnum block if I can find a decent one but I haven't given up on this LA yet
 
Real question, if I did the local machine shop bore, is my hand held hone tool sub par for honing?

Running that scenario…
$400 bore
Say $200 for crank love
~$250 for overbore 030 pistons
Gaskets, rings, bearings $256 FM kit
Cam bearings $56
HV Oil pump $110
$1275ish for peace of mind
Or just $400 and send it with standard bore as is
 
72smallairparticler said:
Im in the bay area CA so prices are always high here. Cam looks great, cam bearings look like they need replacing though. The heads are in decent shape, could use some porting and valve work but theyll run as is.

On the crank im trying the shoestring sandpaper wd40 trick to see how they turn out. Hard to tell if the gouges are too deep.
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do you know the way to san jose

might be worth a little day trip. but no shame it trying some backyard voodoo and seeing what transpires.

Its a coin toss since the cost of a full set of bearings, rings, gaskets etc could be totally wasted if I try to go cheap and it doesnt work out well... Plus sunk costs on time.

But honestly, I might be overthinking idealizing what the build needs to be. Easy to spiral seeking perfection.
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true, true. it's hard to make a move when being wrong costs you that few hundo out of pocket and a big old chunk of time. aim for something that's just a good runner, if you invest the $$'s in the bottom end, and it's built well that's something that you can always improve upon down the line when you have more cash to play with. it doesn't need to be johnny kick *** right out of the gate. a mild street motor is more than enough and you'll likely be pleasantly surprised.

Probably safer and cheaper to build with a magnum block if I can find a decent one but I haven't given up on this LA yet
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you're kind of in a tough spot. the good money says for the same effort you can get to the same place cheaper. but i'd see what a machine shop has to say-- maybe everything cleans up with minimal work and you're out the door under a grand. which wouldn't be bad all things considered.

Real question, if I did the local machine shop bore, is my hand held hone tool sub par for honing?

Running that scenario…
$400 bore
Say $200 for crank love
~$250 for overbore 030 pistons
Gaskets, rings, bearings $256 FM kit
Cam bearings $56
HV Oil pump $110
$1275ish for peace of mind
Or just $400 and send it with standard bore as is
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man, that's a tough call. personally i say have the shop do the finish hone. each place is different with how much they take off and what they finish to. i think a hand held is fine for some backyard antics on a low risk build like where you're at now. but if you drop the coin for the bore, the risk in screwing up that isn't worth it to me.

i'd say, see how the billy back yard work turns out with the crank and the hone job. and if you think it's satisfactory, then get the bits and knock it together. but if it's looking ugly, then collect yourself and the stuff and see what you can suss out machine work wise in a affordable fashion. you don't need a race engine builder or some bespoke machine shop. just find some production joint that can get the stuff done in a reasonable manner.
 
mygasser said:
re the hone, when a shop quotes to rebore that normally includes the hone too. don't assume it's extra until you ask the question.
neil.
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True, unless they say "Bore $400, Hone $400". :( My assumption is a "hand hone" is basically using a 3 stone tool like I have. From the machinist (Victory Automotive Machine)
To remove all oil galley and water plugs along with cam bearings. $105.00. Hot tank block $205.00. We’ve rarely seen a small block Chrysler that doesn’t need to be bored. But to hand hone a V8 is $200. To power hone a V8 is $400. To bore and hone s V8 is $800. To deck the block is $295.00.
Unfortunately, i've dug around here in san jose best price I can find is like $375 Bore and requires a little drive. The machine shop near me I could probably roll my engine stand with block to - its like half a block down but it's a small bespoke shop and he does good work. I like the proximity if I'm gonna spend it.
 
Well im soaking pistons and cleaning up my heads a bit.

On my crank, not sure still. Quoted $295 to grind it 10/10 - but... at the end of that I still have a stock crank. I could just hunt out a forged crank and then at least the money isn't being spent on stock parts so.... Hmmm

I think I'm just gonna run what I got. I'll polish the journals more on the crank and see how they turn out- if I can run my fingernail across them without getting snagged, thats good enough for me. End of the day, this isn't going to be a forever motor. I'll swap out the cam bearings as well as the rest of the rebuild. Do a mild port on the heads and just start reassembly

Anyone have recommendations on rebuild kits out there? So many with different options and hard to tell what quality can be gotten. Ideally i'd like Felpro for gaskets, Clevite for bearings, and standard set of rings with a hi-flow oil pump. Not sure on timing chain brand though.

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72smallairparticler said:
On my crank, not sure still. Quoted $295 to grind it 10/10 - but... at the end of that I still have a stock crank. I could just hunt out a forged crank and then at least the money isn't being spent on stock parts so.... Hmmm
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mild rebuild, stock crank will be fine. polish it up and if you're content with the results and confident that it'll be acceptable spec, then ship it.

but $295 is cheap peace of mind, in the grand scheme of things...
 
junkyardhero said:
but $295 is cheap peace of mind, in the grand scheme of things...
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agreed, I just am unsure if there are other aspects of the crank such as balancing or thrust (which im still reading up on as im new to this) to be aware of so to me, peace of mind would be checking everything and investing far more money, versus sending it as is and choosing a better starting block next round :). I take some mental comfort in the ability of these engines to run well with less than perfect conditions overall.
 
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Also picked up this Holley 750 the other day. Waiting on a delivery of an edelbrock air gap manifold sometime this month also.

Trying to figure out the best way to collect the necessary linkage. Ive heard good things about Lokar throttle setups.

And now that I have a 360 and 727 I am most certain my column shift linkage will need to be changed. Probably tackle that once engine is back together…

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rebuild parts are coming in slowly.
Taking the block, heads, and other parts out to the backyard to pressure wash and acid washing the water jackets. Hope to be done with cleaning finally

Then back inside to clean up a work area for putting all back together again. Waiting on some more deliveries before I can begin.

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Today's tasks finished:
  • Pulled out the oxylic acid powder and moved parts to the yard to pressure wash
  • Acid washed the water jackets on the block
  • Acid washed the heads and battery tray
  • neutralized them with baking soda after acid wash
  • pressure washed
  • dried off with air hose
  • moved back to the garage and readied the heads for some port work

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Been out of commission for a while with way too much side work going on.

Updates since I last checked in:
  • Sold the ol' slant and 904 to @Red Stripe for his project valiant :thumbsup:
  • Cleaned up the valves
  • Prepped the block for paint
  • Shot primer coat
I have this awesome retired neighbor of mine whose a wealth of knowledge on mopars. He took a look at everything and gave me a bunch of tips yesterday on various parts I have collected. Notably, on my 750 holley to swap the black spring that operates the vacuum for the secondaries to kick in. he said the black springs are super high tension and those secondaries don't kick in til far too late unless you swap it out. Suggested I swap out the cam for a lower lift profile and the airgap intake manifold for something more streetable, and suggested installing a 90 degree oil filter adapter to help me out since i'll have headers. All good input, so next step is trying to distill down what I actually want out of this build.

Once I have some side work completed i'll be back in the garage to spend that cash lol

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what cam is in there? (whatever it is, we'll all probably recommend something different)
if you have the airgap hang on to that. it'll be more than cromulent for a nice street car motor.
those valves look hammered ***
90* filter may or may not work with headers, it depends on the brand. sometimes you gotta run the shorty can.
 
*sees single pattern 480 284 cam*

mmmrrrppphh.

i mean, sure? i personally would go with something a little smaller and more modern. but it all really depends on how you want to use the car and what your expectations are for the motor: power wise, driveability, etc.

if you have the compression, stall and gears then all the better.

it's a slippery slope on the heads. if they're super waxed, i'd probably try and find something i liked a little better that was cheap, and do those up or pop for just some basic remans and call it done. but the 974 heads are one of the "better" smogger heads, and they should have hardened seats.

but, it depends. if any work has been done on them: guides, cut for springs, oversized valves, porting, then it may be worth sticking with them.
 
72smallairparticler said:
Been out of commission for a while with way too much side work going on.

Updates since I last checked in:
  • Sold the ol' slant and 904 to @Red Stripe for his project valiant :thumbsup:
  • Cleaned up the valves
  • Prepped the block for paint
  • Shot primer coat
I have this awesome retired neighbor of mine whose a wealth of knowledge on mopars. He took a look at everything and gave me a bunch of tips yesterday on various parts I have collected. Notably, on my 750 holley to swap the black spring that operates the vacuum for the secondaries to kick in. he said the black springs are super high tension and those secondaries don't kick in til far too late unless you swap it out. Suggested I swap out the cam for a lower lift profile and the airgap intake manifold for something more streetable, and suggested installing a 90 degree oil filter adapter to help me out since i'll have headers. All good input, so next step is trying to distill down what I actually want out of this build.

Once I have some side work completed i'll be back in the garage to spend that cash lol

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The airgap intake ought to be really good for a street or street/strip engine. I don't think I would leave it out of your build.
 
Edelbrock 2049 Edelbrock Total Power Package 417 HP Small Block Mopar Top-End Engine Kits | Summit Racing - my neighbor suggested droppin 3k+ on this setup and just selling off the purple camshaft, intake and heads for whatever I could get for them.

:
junkyardhero said:
*sees single pattern 480 284 cam*

mmmrrrppphh.

i mean, sure? i personally would go with something a little smaller and more modern. but it all really depends on how you want to use the car and what your expectations are for the motor: power wise, driveability, etc.

if you have the compression, stall and gears then all the better.

it's a slippery slope on the heads. if they're super waxed, i'd probably try and find something i liked a little better that was cheap, and do those up or pop for just some basic remans and call it done. but the 974 heads are one of the "better" smogger heads, and they should have hardened seats.

but, it depends. if any work has been done on them: guides, cut for springs, oversized valves, porting, then it may be worth sticking with them.
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yeah im with you on the cam. Not sure what its worth, but i'll try ditching it. Want something more mild that I can pair up with appropriate spring rate and some new valves.

I may spring for a machinist to assemble and add in a valve job. Unless I can find a deal on some better flowing heads for a reasonable price. Budget build, mild performance goals, streetable drivability. Those are my goals.

Compression is factory 8.4:1 with these stock pistons so I'm again at crossroads with parts. I have already bought all standard bore rebuild parts, but might have been premature.
 
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