727 Time to rebuild

[67/6barracuda]

Hello Team
My 360/727 has an unspecified amount of miles, who knows. Junk yard grab but when I drop the pan a few years ago it had some light clutch material, no metal shavings, had a little gray milky substance most likely condensation from sitting. Drained all fluids, added a new filter with new fluids, and rocked it. 1-2 shift is great can burn the tires no problem no slipping. Third gear however after it reaches operating temp sounds like it’s making surging sound and lack of power if I get on the gas. Doesn’t feel like a typical slipping scenario. Maybe a stuck governor or something. Anyhow I have the lokar kit and adjusting it is a pain in the ***. I set it for full pressure at wide open throttle. Now that I finally got sometime to mess with it. I’m either going to fix it or destroy it either way should be a good time.

I picked up a Transgo TF-2 kit and a MP deep pan.

what do you guys think of upgrading the rear servo?

Do I go with a solid billet one piece from randy or do I go with the more stock two piece version?

Does the one piece cause a clunk when putting it in reverse?

Also because of the questionable slipping scenario I will refill the trans with type f fluid instead of the +4.

Right answer is a full rebuild is in order but I’m trying to get as much out of it for now until I can get the body work started. Once I get the car in better shape I may replace or rebuild.

It’s just a street beater no track my motor is likely less than 275hp.

 

[67/6barracuda]

I just got off the phone with Jon from cope racing he assured that the billet rear servo he sells will give a more positive engagement and not make that clunk when put in reverse. He agreed that the TF2 spring is to much for the stock retainer. I will probably place an order with him this weekend. Anyone ever use cope’s servo’s?

 

[67/6barracuda]

Ok scraped my weekend plans gotta regroup, it seems the trans is smoked. I was hoping for a better outcome when I drop the pan. There’s a mountain of clutch material. Time to rebuild.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

A reverse clunk accompanied with a delayed reverse indicates third gear clutch wear. But the direct (3) clutch usually does better when cold than hot. Your results may vary..

 

[MrJLR]

He agreed that the TF2 spring is to much for the stock retainer

He is correct

Jeff

 

[MrJLR]

Ok scraped my weekend plans gotta regroup, it seems the trans is smoked. I was hoping for a better outcome when I drop the pan. There’s a mountain of clutch material. Time to rebuild. View attachment 1715322561

The good, the bad and the ugly
Jeff's 727 rebuild thread

Jeff

 

[67/6barracuda]

The good, the bad and the ugly
Jeff's 727 rebuild thread

Jeff

Jeff I read through all of your agony and really appreciate it. I got as far as pulling the valve body and I’m installing the TF2. Did you drill the holes thru the transfer plate to the max 3/16” for A,C,D. For B I’m not going to drill but leave the ball out. How are the shifts?

View attachment 1715323668

 

[MrJLR]

Jeff I read through all of your agony and really appreciate it. I got as far as pulling the valve body and I’m installing the TF2. Did you drill the holes to transfer plate to the max 3/16” for A,C,D. For B I’m not going to drill but leave the ball out. How are the shifts? View attachment 1715323667View attachment 1715323666 View attachment 1715323669

View attachment 1715323668

I'll tell you, it was an experience that was totally worth it.
Yes, there were hard times and a good dose of frustration. ...in the end, with the help of all the guys here, the transmission works AWESOME and I did it for a fraction of the cost and I did it myself.
As I recall, I did drill them to the largest size.
The shifts are perfect and she chirps the tires on the 1-2 shift when I'm getting on her! Exactly what I was looking for!
The whole thing cost around $300.....
Was an awesome experience in my opinion!

Jeff

 

[fishy68]

Not sure where the idea of Mr. Randy's rear servo's cause a clunk cause the ones I've used don't. Nevertheless John Cope is a decent guy to deal with. Good products and good service.

I've installed many TF-2 kits and if you leave the accumulator spring in (which I recommend with a stock converter) make sure hole "B" is at least .086" and it'll be a real nice firm shift but won't shred the tires. Also when you go through it make sure there's at least 10 springs in the front clutch (I generally use 12 but 10 is fine for your application). If it only has 6 or 8 springs you might get some 2-3 shift overlap which is real bad.

 

[67/6barracuda]

Not sure where the idea of Mr. Randy's rear servo's cause a clunk cause the ones I've used don't. Nevertheless John Cope is a decent guy to deal with. Good products and good service.

I've installed many TF-2 kits and if you leave the accumulator spring in (which I recommend with a stock converter) make sure hole "B" is at least .086" and it'll be a real nice firm shift but won't shred the tires. Also when you go through it make sure there's at least 10 springs in the front clutch (I generally use 12 but 10 is fine for your application). If it only has 6 or 8 springs you might get some 2-3 shift overlap which is real bad.

Fishy68 sorry for the confusion. I was asking cope if the solid rear billet servo’s cause a clunk. He said no. I might go with randy’s I haven’t ordered yet.

With the separator plate I have so far drilled
A: .187
B: not drilled yet planning on leaving ball out (should I drill and leave out ball?)
C: .155 (thinking going bigger to .187)
D: .187

The TV valve I only grinded it down half way. The directions say .281 but I’m at like .336 right now. I read your old post about losing kick down after 50mph.

I still have to pull transmission but I’m thinking of switching the 2.9 servo lever to the 3.8 that I already have and adding 12 return springs. Probably up grade the servos while I’m in there. I have a stock low stall I believe in there now that came from a motor home. I also have a 3k PTC converter 11” that I bought locally used sitting on the shelve. But I’m thinking it’s over kill for my car.

I’ll tear into the trans hopefully soon and determine what’s all needed. This is a first for me. I try and read all the threads and also have Tom hands book.

 

[fishy68]

Fishy68 sorry for the confusion. I was asking cope if the solid rear billet servo’s cause a clunk. He said no. I might go with randy’s I haven’t ordered yet.

With the separator plate I have so far drilled
A: .187
B: not drilled yet planning on leaving ball out (should I drill and leave out ball?)
C: .155 (thinking going bigger to .187)
D: .187

The TV valve I only grinded it down half way. The directions say .281 but I’m at like .336 right now. I read your old post about losing kick down after 50mph.

I still have to pull transmission but I’m thinking of switching the 2.9 servo lever to the 3.8 that I already have and adding 12 return springs. Probably up grade the servos while I’m in there. I have a stock low stall I believe in there now that came from a motor home. I also have a 3k PTC converter 11” that I bought locally used sitting on the shelve. But I’m thinking it’s over kill for my car.

I’ll tear into the trans hopefully soon and determine what’s all needed. This is a first for me. I try and read all the threads and also have Tom hands book.

Sorry about the confusion on my end too. Not sure of the size of the "B" hole in your plate now but if it's smaller than .086" I'd drill it to at least .068.. I'd leave "C" at .155".. It sounds like your right on track with everything.

I don't know the rest of your combo but as for the PTC converter, I ran that exact converter in my car yrs. ago with a mild 360 and it did real well. Very streetable. Only thing is if you do go with it (or any other high stall over 2600) it'll cushion the shift feel somewhat. If your running real tall gears I wouldn't run it. 3:23's or lower and you'll be ok. I am not a fan of buying used converters unless they've been refreshed so if you do decide to run it have it checked and cleaned by a good converter guy otherwise it might be full of crap and it'll run right into your fresh trans.

 

[67/6barracuda]

Valve body is all together. Went together smooth I’m still torn on the grinding on the throttle valve. I went about half way on it. Seems like there’s conflicting info on the matter some say if you don’t grind enough it won’t shift good may hang up first gear. Others say you grind it to the recommended .281” and I may lose downshift ability. I reached out to Tom hand for some wisdom.

 

[MrJLR]

Tom is THE man.....do what he recommends.....
He helped me out too...as well as a few of the guys here...
@fishy68 comes to mind with others...

Jeff

 

[Cope]

I dropped a fair amount of coin with CRT. how could I not, we have the same name!

Nice parts, no clunk, nothing but an awesome trans when I put it all together.

He is also friends with the guys at ultimate converter.

Hes is a no nonsense guy, so have your questions ready and your CC. After talking to him I get the impression he doesn't suffer fools or have time for dumb questions. So be aware of that. Hes a busy man that knows his business.

 

[Cope]

I'm not sure if I screwed up when I built my TF2 shift kit but I hated it. It would hold the gear until 3K then shift so hard it would set my *** end loose.

I ended up getting the RMVB from CRT and I love it!

 

[fishy68]

I look at it this way on grinding the throttle valve, if you grind it all the way to what Trans-go says and it's too short you may not have passing gear at moderate or higher speeds. If you only grind half of their recommendation off and it hangs in gear too long you can always back off the throttle pressure rod (or cable) adjustment until you get it where you like it. That's sure a lot easier than taking the valve body back out and finding a throttle valve to redo it with. JMHO

 

[67/6barracuda]

Fishy68 I see your point. It’s not to big a deal if it doesn’t act right I’ll change it up. I appreciate your input. The throttle body is back together sitting waiting on me to figure out what I want to do with my transmission. I just picked up another 727 yesterday that may seem promising. I through it up on the bench dropped the pan. Nothing in the fluid indicating it can’t be ran. I added 30lbs of air to the front/rear servo’s and forward/rear drums all check out fine there. I might just through it all back together with the rebuilt TB and run it with that 3k stall. It might have life left in it. Now the 727 thats still in my car that needs a complete rebuild for sure. I still think I need a better rear servo. At least the HD spring retainer. Im not ready to shell out a 100 for the billet one just yet. I’ll wait until I do a complete over haul on my other trans.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

It's always all or nothing is what I usually hear. Either a "complete overhaul" which doesn't really mean anything, or not even touch it. I can't imagine not checking the front drums with a trans out of the car and the vb removed. People do valve jobs on motors and replace timing chains; even oil pumps, all which are a lot harder than checking front drums, but they don't decide to just rebuild the whole motor cuz the timing chain is loose or it has a burnt valve. I don't get it. It would cost a front gasket and a o-ring.

 

[oldkimmer]

Fishy68 I see your point. It’s not to big a deal if it doesn’t act right I’ll change it up. I appreciate your input. The throttle body is back together sitting waiting on me to figure out what I want to do with my transmission. I just picked up another 727 yesterday that may seem promising. I through it up on the bench dropped the pan. Nothing in the fluid indicating it can’t be ran. I added 30lbs of air to the front/rear servo’s and forward/rear drums all check out fine there. I might just through it all back together with the rebuilt TB and run it with that 3k stall. It might have life left in it. Now the 727 thats still in my car that needs a complete rebuild for sure. I still think I need a better rear servo. At least the HD spring retainer. Im not ready to shell out a 100 for the billet one just yet. I’ll wait until I do a complete over haul on my other trans. View attachment 1715326732

I have never put in a HD retainer or rear servo in any of the 727s I’ve done. Kim

 

[67/6barracuda]

I haven’t made much progress but I did take the time to mess with the rear servo and grind the land down a bit following the trans go instructions. I’ll hold off on the billet one for now and see if this one will hold up. You can see in the bottom photo it exposes more of the seal.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

TransGo likes to run the bands pretty snug and l agree with his method of adjusting them wholeheartedly.

 

[67/6barracuda]

TransGo likes to run the bands pretty snug and l agree with his method of adjusting them wholeheartedly.

I appreciate the input, I may just pull the pump based on your advice and have a look at the front drum just to see how the clutch pack is looking.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

When you take the pump bolts out, you'll find that two of the holes are threaded for 3/8" bolts to use a slide hammer on. I never do use one; rather just insert a couple of bellhousing bolts then use a small crowbar type of L'shaped lever against the inside of the bell. Or gently pry between the front drum lugs against the sun gear shell. First spray some lube around the circumference of the pump. And, of course, the VERY first thing is to yank in and out on the input shaft to check for endplay; just to get a general idea. After that, then remove the pump bolts. Just don't remove the snap ring on the front of the output shaft; save that for your next "rebuild".

 

[67/6barracuda]

When you take the pump bolts out, you'll find that two of the holes are threaded for 3/8" bolts to use a slide hammer on. I never do use one; rather just insert a couple of bellhousing bolts then use a small crowbar type of L'shaped lever against the inside of the bell. Or gently pry between the front drum lugs against the sun gear shell. First spray some lube around the circumference of the pump. And, of course, the VERY first thing is to yank in and out on the input shaft to check for endplay; just to get a general idea. After that, then remove the pump bolts. Just don't remove the snap ring on the front of the output shaft; save that for your next "rebuild".

I made this tool when tearing into a junk 727 a few months back. Worked great a piece of all thread and some angle iron. Not much was salvageable with this one but I will use the kick down servo 3.8 lever to replace my current 2.9.

 

[MrJLR]

I made this tool when tearing into a junk 727 a few months back. Worked great a piece of all thread and some angle iron. Not much was salvageable with this one but I will use the kick down servo 3.8 lever to replace my current 2.9. View attachment 1715333021

Consider your idea stolen! !!
That's slick! Much better than a slide hammer!

Jeff