8 3/4 guru need your help

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Great tech info, from someone who seems to have much experience.It was a little deeper explaination of it all to help the guy which is great.I was trying to keep it simple stupid.
Funny thing about the flexing issue, you said exactly what I said, you just changed and added to the wording!But you are correct, there are different 9" housing, some are stronger then others. I run the larger housing, but you left out the most important part. When most 9" housings are narrowed, they use heavy wall 3" tubing, this is why you don;t need a back brace.Yes, @ 900 HP you need a back brace, but a 600HP car, even with a Tbrake no.
I WAS comparing a stock carrier to stock carrier, not my nodular........I didn't just fall off the potato truck! LOL......I was also comparing the complete package,housing etc. When you set them side by side, stock to stock parts (including the bearing caps which are wimpier).
As for weight of Dana over 9" Where did I say 50-90 lbs? I think you are on the conservative side on your weight calculations,But never the less,18lbs is 18lbs more weight, so "it is heavier" anything heavier is heavier period.Every lb is E.T. lost.
Chipping of the teeth,I'll stick to my guns on that one, not saying what you are saying is not part of it. In reality it is also because most all of the ring gear sets are imported now, and made of cheap chineese metal.That is also why you can hardley get a ring gear setup that won't make noise no matter how hard you try.
But after all you said, why then does the whole racing market sell and build 9" Fords for performance/racing, and not the 8 3/4"
Lastly, my point was, if you dump the same cash (or less) into a 9" as you do a 8 3/4, you will have a much stronger diif.But if you are a die hard Mopar guy, and can't handle other makers parts in your car, then a Dana or beefed up 8 3/4 is the way to go.
 
Been using the same 742 casting with the same 4.56 gears since 2006...no bracing ...no billet yokes......904 with transbrake....engine on two step at 3000 rpm....brake releases 5000 rpm....

Broke the 40 yr old stock driveshaft earlier this year...

check the racing section...Dart just went 10.33 in Bakersfield...with same old 8 3/4
 
69valiantracer said:
I WAS comparing a stock carrier to stock carrier, not my nodular........I didn't just fall off the potato truck! LOL......
stock to stock the 9" i'd run from, before i put any real power to it



As for weight of Dana over 9" Where did I say 50-90 lbs? I think you are on the conservative side on your weight calculations,But never the less,18lbs is 18lbs more weight, so "it is heavier" anything heavier is heavier period.Every lb is E.T. lost.
You didn't you said
NO No No Dana, too heavy
Too heavy is not a 18 lb difference, too heavy is 70 lbs and better.


Chipping of the teeth,I'll stick to my guns on that one, not saying what you are saying is not part of it.
You can stick to those guns all year, but the housing flex is not the teeth chipping , very different when you actually have a failure from housing flex.

In reality it is also because most all of the ring gear sets are imported now, and made of cheap chineese metal.
I agree and there are china copies of good brands that even the boxes look good.
BUT not all of the gears are from china, Precision, Nitro, Dana, US gear, AAM are all good companies, Motive is good too but some of there gears are from all over, but ask someone if they want the $250 gear or the $150 gear, and their issue is usually their own fault

That is also why you can hardley get a ring gear setup that won't make noise no matter how hard you try.
That's not always true, i do many diffs and they don't make noise, there are some gears cut differently and can make noise, Richmonds bigger ratios could have noise issues.
Noise issues most times are because everyone can do it, it's why i have let more people go and continue to do them myself.


But after all you said, why then does the whole racing market sell and build 9" Fords for performance/racing, and not the 8 3/4"
Lastly, my point was, if you dump the same cash (or less) into a 9" as you do a 8 3/4, you will have a much stronger diif.But if you are a die hard Mopar guy, and can't handle other makers parts in your car, then a Dana or beefed up 8 3/4 is the way to go.


They like to lose hp maybe, i have no idea why the aftermarket and so many people chose that diff over a Dana to flood the market with UPGRADES to make it survive.
Again i believe the 9" is just supported because of the ease of use, it is most definitely not the strongest and best diff to use for performance.

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Okay I'll bite what the He&@s an ALS case where from is it the Mopar billet or something else

This is the 742 AL case



This is the 742 AL case now beyond 500 passes, mid 9's full weight b body leave off t-brake at 5800

The stl case has a cap deflection issue from what i see when they fail, even using the MW billet cap and seen the same situation.
What i am going to try are slightly larger diameter studs and pining it so the cap can't move, then i believe the 742 stl case should be as good as the AL case.

 
This is the 742 AL case



This is the 742 AL case now beyond 500 passes, mid 9's full weight b body leave off t-brake at 5800

The stl case has a cap deflection issue from what i see when they fail, even using the MW billet cap and seen the same situation.
What i am going to try are slightly larger diameter studs and pining it so the cap can't move, then i believe the 742 stl case should be as good as the AL case.



oups I think you lost me (pining) what the hell it is???:-?
how can I do that???
have both case and already bought the crush sleeve eliminator
maybe 3 years ado
wife will be happy it is in the entry closet from this time:D

how much cost the AL 742 case???
please tell me you have one used and you are willing to sell it!!!
 
Loose HP?.... That's a new one.....I will let all the Top sportsman, Top dragsters, promods, and all the other bazzillion racers that run 9" diffs know that.
Lets agree to dis-agree, bottom line, I'd rather put less cash in a 9" then a 8 3/4....did my time with those, and they did serve me well.
But pound for pound (pun intended) I got more bang for my buck, and I feel warm, fuzzy and secure, everytime I let go of the button.
I do admire your effort to try different things with the 8 3/4, and that billet carrier is really gorgeous.
 



This is what happens when you don't catch the 3rd bearing when its about to fail.. That costs you the housing, R&P, shaft and trans

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That looks like a totally stock set up to me. All I am saying is spend less $$ to build a 9" Correctly instead of spending more $$ on an 8 3/4 to keep doing it over again. Good $$ spent once, Done!
 
Actually it is much easier with the crush sleeve, thing is you probably don't do enough of them to see it, with the crush sleeve once you get within 8" lbs you make very very little increment turns, like 8 degrees, then rotate the pin a good few revolutions, recheck pre-load and if it's off a little lets say 4" lbs make a 3 degree pull.
It is very easy to go to much it's very little movement of the nut at that point.

The shims are more time consuming as you need to go totally apart and back together again and sometimes you need a .0015 difference to get it perfect and that turns into a sob problem.

The only thing i see with the shim over the sleeve is changing end yokes, it takes out all the care and makes it a stupid person replacement part. Knock the nut off and remove old , put on new, tighten nut back to 250/300 area and have a nice day, that doesn't happen with the sleeve.

I agree shims are more timing consuming and sometimes finding the perfect thickness can be a challenge. The reason a solid spacer is easier for me is I have a screwed up back and don't have the strength I used to have and trying to crush the sleeve down requires a 3/4 breaker bar and cheater pipe. That makes it very hard to control how much your turning it. Once I put one together I rarely have to mess with changing the yoke but if I do it sure makes it easier than if it had a crush sleeve. As for making it a stupid person replacement part, if that's what you call it when you make something easier to service more power to you. Thanks for your opinion on the crush sleeve myth. It confirms what I was thinking.
 
Loose HP?.... That's a new one.....I will let all the Top sportsman, Top dragsters, promods, and all the other bazzillion racers that run 9" diffs know that.
Lets agree to dis-agree, bottom line, I'd rather put less cash in a 9" then a 8 3/4....did my time with those, and they did serve me well.
But pound for pound (pun intended) I got more bang for my buck, and I feel warm, fuzzy and secure, everytime I let go of the button.
I do admire your effort to try different things with the 8 3/4, and that billet carrier is really gorgeous.



Dragsters and promods are NOT using 9", if you want to think that is a 9" you would be very wrong.

It is a FACT, not some made up myth that the 9" cost more power, its why the 12 bolt drop out exists for many SS racers and bolts into a ford housing.

It is also why the 8.8 is used over the 9" which the 8.8 is a copy of the 12 bolt, it uses less power to turn.

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That looks like a totally stock set up to me. All I am saying is spend less $$ to build a 9" Correctly instead of spending more $$ on an 8 3/4 to keep doing it over again. Good $$ spent once, Done!


Thats a 3rd bearing failure, that can happen on any style 9", but when it happens its costs you the case, shaft and trans, something any Dana or 12 bolt, 8.75, 8.8, 10 blt won't do when / if they break, it's a simple R&P.
 
When you loose an 8 3/4, you will normally roll the sprauge in a 727 also,if not at the time, but eventually.So lets keep things staright about breakage.It's not just throw another pumpkin in.
Ford guys use 8.8's because they are cheaper, and work well in lower HP cars,in stock configuation.
All The Top dragesters , and just about evey Super class car, runs a 9". true, it may be a fab housing in some but it is still a 9"
I don't know what to tell you,all I can say about your HP theroy is, I didn't loose any HP, E.T. or MPH when I went 9". All I lost was worry about loosing my 8 3/4.
If the 8 3/4 was all that (like it once was),gave you more HP then a 9", everybody would be building them. While on the other hand,performence parts are getting less and less for them.I.E. very few pro gears, less gear ratio options.Maybe 1 choice of nodular case.No fab housings on and on.
Back to my origianl point....You can keep dumping cash and effort, into a 8 3/4, if you really like them that much. But for the money and effort (less money and effort), you can do a 9" up and be done with it.
But atleast we agree that the 742 is better, then the 489 case.
 
I have several cars with 8.75's, saying he runs 9.50 in a 69 dart is great, but is it running 9.50's in a factory weight 69 or is this like my friends 69 and it's 2800 lbs ?
Also he makes 300 runs a year or 6

The car weighs in at around 2800. My guess about 200 runs a season.
 
When you loose an 8 3/4, you will normally roll the sprauge in a 727 also,if not at the time, but eventually.So lets keep things staright about breakage.It's not just throw another pumpkin in.

Ford guys use 8.8's because they are cheaper, and work well in lower HP cars,in stock configuation.


All The Top dragesters , and just about evey Super class car, runs a 9". true, it may be a fab housing in some but it is still a 9"

I don't know what to tell you,all I can say about your HP theroy is, I didn't loose any HP, E.T. or MPH when I went 9". All I lost was worry about loosing my 8 3/4.
If the 8 3/4 was all that (like it once was),gave you more HP then a 9", everybody would be building them. While on the other hand,performence parts are getting less and less for them.I.E. very few pro gears, less gear ratio options.Maybe 1 choice of nodular case.No fab housings on and on.
Back to my origianl point....You can keep dumping cash and effort, into a 8 3/4, if you really like them that much. But for the money and effort (less money and effort), you can do a 9" up and be done with it.
But atleast we agree that the 742 is better, then the 489 case
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If you lose a sprag in a 727 that was because when you had it built it was to save money and you didn't have it built correctly using all the better pieces and ways to build it.

I have a 8.8's in the 1.1 60's at 2900 lbs and 3470 lbs area from 7.70 thru 11.0's? so saying the 8.8 can't handle it are just more rumors and misconceptions, and the 8.8 is just a new 12 blt.

Some of those look like 9" from the back and are using the 12blt drop out so don't be so sure what you're seeing is a 9".
I have some super cars with the 12 bolt piece.
Most everyone jumps for the 9" because they had a problem and think the Dana is 90 lbs heavier when it is NOT, most just THINK they can set up a diff and really the problem is them.
Most all shops will push you to the 9" because it easier for them, and they don't need more special expensive tools for those specific diffs.


But a non pro gear 8.75 in 742 config in the AL case more than 500 pass @ 9.50 full weight B body, 5800 off the t-brake... not even a chip, as seen in the pic above they barely look used and if not for the 500 documented passes you'd think there was 5 runs on them.

As for the hp consumption of the 9" over the 8.75, Dana, 8,8 and 10/12 blt it is between depending which diff you're comparing it to in this line up can be and IS as much as 16hp, and if you run a super class, you want that hp over the 9" ALL YEAR.





The car weighs in at around 2800. My guess about 200 runs a season.


He is lighter than the cars we're running and the weight helps, but it still shows they aren't bad
 
Quoting myself.....

"I don't know what to tell you,all I can say about your HP theroy is, I didn't loose any HP, E.T. or MPH when I went 9". All I lost was worry about loosing my 8 3/4".

"Back to my origianl point....You can keep dumping cash and effort, into a 8 3/4, if you really like them that much. But for the money and effort (less money and effort), you can do a 9" up and be done with it".

I am done
 
Thing that I find most interesting on this site is that there is more than one fellow that REFUSES to accept the fact that there is more than one way to skin a cat....
 
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