904 Governor Replacement

[TrailBeast]

Thanks Bewy l haven’t done this before and am trying to learn from you guys. This type of tuning isn’t in the FSM. I need to learn from everyone here’s collective experience. Sure wish I had local friends to learn and wrench with. It’s hard being alone doing everything on the car but Ive come very far and still learning which a guy at my age is meaningful.

Last I saw you could tell A&A Transmissions how your trans shifts now, and how you want it to shift.
Then they send you the appropriate governor weights.

Also, just an FYI the Transgo TF2 kit has a “First at any speed mod” included.
You can manually shift into first at 80mph if you want.
I wouldn’t recommend doing that obviously, but downshifting into first at 35-40 puts you right in the best rpm for power with the right rear gears.

A stock trans will not allow that after a certain road speed.
You can pull the shifter into first, but the trans won’t do it.

 

[340inabbody]

and that answers the full manual question.
My First Trans-Go shift was a comprehensive all-modes kit. You could select full manual, semi-auto, and a modest bang-shift mode, from the instructions.
well of course, being a newbe, and like 24 years old, I went with the full-manual. Well that lasted about a week, maybe two.
Thankfully, at that time, full manual was reversible to semi-auto, pretty easy.
And since I had not changed the rear gear yet, the governor still worked pretty good. A lil tweaking and she was good to go.
I have never used a full manual since, lol.
My cars are usually DDs, and in city driving back and fourth to work, that manual shift was cutting into my girl-watching time. never mind; traffic lights, stop signs, and watching out for other idiot drivers doing what I was doing. lol.
Eventually I moved out of the city, and went back to a manual trans. I have a few of those to choose from.
BTW 3.55s are an excellent gear for an auto car. especially a city car. They have always been my go-to gear, since 1970.... albeit usually with a manual trans.

Thats a funny way to start a response @AJ/FormS. So it appears the “manual” you are referring to is not a manual gearbox like an 833 but a transgo set up on an automatic that allows quasi manual shifts without a clutch and manual gearbox.

I think my kick-down is not adjusted right even though it’s set up correctly at the carb. I assume I need to get this right before I do anything. Quite frankly I need to learn how to adjust it given that it’s not entirely factory correct.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Thats a funny way to start a response @AJ/FormS. So it appears the “manual” you are referring to is not a manual gearbox like an 833 but a transgo set up on an automatic that allows quasi manual shifts without a clutch and manual gearbox.

I think my kick-down is not adjusted right even though it’s set up correctly at the carb. I assume I need to get this right before I do anything. Quite frankly I need to learn how to adjust it given that it’s not entirely factory correct.

Disconnect the kickdown linkage. Check to see if the carburetor is opening all the way with the accelerator floored. Once that is confirmed, use your hand to push the throttle all the way open (helps to remove the return spring). Push the kickdown linkage all the way back. Then see if the kickdown linkage hooks up with the rear of its slot against the carb linkage. If not, adjust it until it does. Once it does, you now have full throttle travel and full kickdown travel.

This is not the procedure in the shop manual, but it works just as well if you don't have a 3/8 inch drill bit handy. Also works for any kind of kickdown linkage, and they do vary.

 

[AJ/FormS]

The goal of the KD mechanism is to get that lil lever down on the trans to go, all the back as far as it goes, when the throttle is at WOT making sure that the gas pedal actually gets the throttle to WOT.
In this position, the throttle pressure will delay the governor-commanded upshift, for as long as possible. Sooner or later, the governor will win the pressure battle and an upshift will occur.
If it happens too soon, it because governor weight is too heavy, or spinning to fast.
If it happens too late, it is because it is NOT heavy enough or spinning too slow.
Just fix it.
Once the governor pressure is in the ballpark, you can fine tune the actual shift point with the KD mechanism.
If the day to day shifting is too harsh, then the balance between Line pressure and throttle pressure will need to be tuned, which may require revisiting the Governor pressure. and ultimately, it may happen that the PT kd fails to work pleasantly, and then, that will have to be recalibrated. So, the pan is gonna be off a few times, so stock up on gaskets and put a couple of studs in the rails to guide the pan home.
AND, drill and tap a place in the case, thru which to reach the line-pressure adjuster with an allen wrench.
And to top it all off, if you have a carb with a tiny primary throttle, you may have to dick with the KD ratio, cuz that sucker is always open further than it would be, with a big-primary throttle.
Here is an understanding that nobody ever told me, and I give it to you for free;
1) the governor pressure sets the stage for all upshifts.
2) KD pressure joins with Line-Pressure to delay the upshifts.
3) Line pressure alone fights Governor pressure, whenever the KD is relaxed.
4) if adjusting the KD does not produce the desired result, and the thing is working, then you can bet the Governor pressure is wrong.
5) swapping more than one gear size (10%), will almost always need an accompanying governor change. Swapping 15>20% for sure will.
Going from 2.7s to 3.5s is ~29%. Yeah that's a big change in driveshaft rpm .
6) once your governor is in the ballpark, you get to fine tune it with springs and clips, or the disc grinder lol. Somebody shouldda, years ago, cast us an extension with a governor access hole; or made it like a Chevy. I thought about it one day ................. But after I pulled it a few times, on a 4-post lift, the wrenches all seemed to find their way around .

 

[340inabbody]

The goal of the KD mechanism is to get that lil lever down on the trans to go, all the back as far as it goes, when the throttle is at WOT making sure that the gas pedal actually gets the throttle to WOT.
In this position, the throttle pressure will delay the governor-commanded upshift, for as long as possible. Sooner or later, the governor will win the pressure battle and an upshift will occur.
If it happens too soon, it because governor weight is too heavy, or spinning to fast.
If it happens too late, it is because it is NOT heavy enough or spinning too slow.
Just fix it.
Once the governor pressure is in the ballpark, you can fine tune the actual shift point with the KD mechanism.
If the day to day shifting is too harsh, then the balance between Line pressure and throttle pressure will need to be tuned, which may require revisiting the Governor pressure. and ultimately, it may happen that the PT kd fails to work pleasantly, and then, that will have to be recalibrated. So, the pan is gonna be off a few times, so stock up on gaskets and put a couple of studs in the rails to guide the pan home.
AND, drill and tap a place in the case, thru which to reach the line-pressure adjuster with an allen wrench.
And to top it all off, if you have a carb with a tiny primary throttle, you may have to dick with the KD ratio, cuz that sucker is always open further than it would be, with a big-primary throttle.
Here is an understanding that nobody ever told me, and I give it to you for free;
1) the governor pressure sets the stage for all upshifts.
2) KD pressure joins with Line-Pressure to delay the upshifts.
3) Line pressure alone fights Governor pressure, whenever the KD is relaxed.
4) if adjusting the KD does not produce the desired result, and the thing is working, then you can bet the Governor pressure is wrong.
5) swapping more than one gear size (10%), will almost always need an accompanying governor change. Swapping 15>20% for sure will.
Going from 2.7s to 3.5s is ~29%. Yeah that's a big change in driveshaft rpm .
6) once your governor is in the ballpark, you get to fine tune it with springs and clips, or the disc grinder lol. Somebody shouldda, years ago, cast us an extension with a governor access hole; or made it like a Chevy. I thought about it one day ................. But after I pulled it a few times, on a 4-post lift, the wrenches all seemed to find their way around .

OK this right here is so helpful! This THIS WAS THE INFORMATION I NEEDED to understand the operation of the trans. Previously I only had manual 4 speed trans M20’s and an M21. So this is like learning French to me.
Thanks @AJ/FormS can I buy you a beer or pizza for this concise and useful information?

 

[340inabbody]

Disconnect the kickdown linkage. Check to see if the carburetor is opening all the way with the accelerator floored. Once that is confirmed, use your hand to push the throttle all the way open (helps to remove the return spring). Push the kickdown linkage all the way back. Then see if the kickdown linkage hooks up with the rear of its slot against the carb linkage. If not, adjust it until it does. Once it does, you now have full throttle travel and full kickdown travel.

This is not the procedure in the shop manual, but it works just as well if you don't have a 3/8 inch drill bit handy. Also works for any kind of kickdown linkage, and they do vary.

Yup this is what I meant that I adjusted/set it up top by the carb. The part I didn’t adjust is down at the trans and yup my ratio is probably off since I fabricated my own kick down rod at the carb (the rest is stock). But as AJ is saying there is enough change in my rear gears and tires that the governor needs to be tuned as the KD won’t cover that much range.

 

[4mulas]

Here’s a question for you ‘in the know’ transmission guys - What is to cause a 727 trans to BLOW through all the gears really fast (1-2 shift at about 9mph, then 2-3 shift immediately after that) under light acceleration? (Even under light to medium acceleration)

If from off idle you floor it AND can prevent the tires from blowing off it will upshift from 1 to 2 at about 4000 rpm and then the 2-3 shift at about 4400 RPM.

I doesn’t like to downshift into first ever once rolling, and also is lazy downshifting into 2nd from 3rd as well (higher the speed less likely to downshift) when rolling down the road

It is a rebuilt transmission and my transmission builder says he knows what to check and has few ideas to remedy all of this and is going to tackle it for me soon I would just like to have a better understanding of all this myself

I have just been shifting manually with the TF2 kit installed and getting firm crisp shifts and it performs well when used like this.

Some info:
3300 pound A body
It’s a 727 out of an early 70’s c body, rebuilt, with a TF2 transgo kit.
Billet 2800 ish stall (foot brakes to 2400 before it pushes)
Lokar kick down with shorter Dakota lever. Works in unison with throttle. I get full throttle and full deflection on kick down lever.
Behind small block 408 magnum
Currently 3.23 gears -(also did all of this with 4.30 gears too)

 

[townsend]

One comment about AJ's statement concerning the relationship of gear sizes and governors.
Evidently Chrysler was not that interested in fine tuning governors to match rear gear ratio's.
Using the 8 1/4 differential as an example, these are the ratio's you could choose from in 74-76 Abodies.
2.45, 2.71, 2.94, 3.21 3.55
Yet only two governors were listed for the 904 torqueflite from 74 thru 76.
Still completely agree with AJ's analysis.

 

[340inabbody]

Here’s a question for you ‘in the know’ transmission guys - What is to cause a 727 trans to BLOW through all the gears really fast (1-2 shift at about 9mph, then 2-3 shift immediately after that) under light acceleration? (Even under light to medium acceleration)

If from off idle you floor it AND can prevent the tires from blowing off it will upshift from 1 to 2 at about 4000 rpm and then the 2-3 shift at about 4400 RPM.

I doesn’t like to downshift into first ever once rolling, and also is lazy downshifting into 2nd from 3rd as well (higher the speed less likely to downshift) when rolling down the road

It is a rebuilt transmission and my transmission builder says he knows what to check and has few ideas to remedy all of this and is going to tackle it for me soon I would just like to have a better understanding of all this myself

I have just been shifting manually with the TF2 kit installed and getting firm crisp shifts and it performs well when used like this.

Some info:
3300 pound A body
It’s a 727 out of an early 70’s c body, rebuilt, with a TF2 transgo kit.
Billet 2800 ish stall (foot brakes to 2400 before it pushes)
Behind small block 408 magnum
Currently 3.23 gears -(also did all of this with 4.30 gears too)

After reading all the comments here it sounds like a governor. But Ill let the guys who know better comment. Are you using a kick down?

 

[4mulas]

After reading all the comments here it sounds like a governor isn’t correct. But Ill let the guys who know better comment. Are you using a kick down?

Yes. Lokar. I get full throttle and also full deflection on the kick down lever when at full throttle. They work in unison. (I had to change to a shorter Dakota TV lever to make all the ratios correct). Sorry I forgot to include that in the ‘info’ I provided.

 

[nckennyb]

If you can find an old Dodge Colt that has the MA904 in it, you can get the governor out of it and increase your shift rpm. I put one in my Dart with a 904 behind a 340 and I had it shifting at 6200 but could have gone higher I believe but that's where I wanted it for engine longevity.

 

[340inabbody]

If you can find an old Dodge Colt that has the MA904 in it, you can get the governor out of it and increase your shift rpm. I put one in my Dart with a 904 behind a 340 and I had it shifting at 6200 but could have gone higher I believe but that's where I wanted it for engine longevity.

You had 2-3 shifting at 6200? For longevity? What am I missing here lol? That’s close to redline right?

 

[nckennyb]

You had 2-3 shifting at 6200? For longevity? What am I missing here lol? That’s close to redline right?

I used to shift my 4 speed Duster with 340 at 7000 all the time. I had a Stewart Warner tach so I guess it was fairly accurate. That was in the 70s and 80s when I was younger and had the "it's going to go or blow" attitude. I was driving the Dart to the racetrack regularly and I wanted to be able to drive it back home. I didn't think 6200 was all that high for a 340.