904 not quite right after TF-2 install

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UOP

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I'm hoping this is a simple fix, but my 904 (999 actually) isn't quite what I expected after installing a TF-2 kit. Two issues: one that I consider a real problem, and the other is just a little annoying.

Ok, so the first issue I'm having is a flare-up at the 2-3 shift. It happens whether it shifts on its own, or if shifted manually, at moderate to full throttle. When cruising at low rpm the flare is very minimal, if not unnoticeable, but when I go wot and shift at 5500 it'll flare so much it'll almost make the motor hit the rev limiter set at 6000. Here is some additional info to help:

1.) The trans kickdown (trans pressure lever) is adjusted so that when I go wot it's at it's max. I read somewhere that it could be too much pressure, so I tried adjusting it to where the kickdown wouldn't be maxed out, but I really couldn't tell a difference. Maybe a little bit, but not a definite improvement.

2.) The trans fluid level is full. Valvoline ATF+4 is what I'm using.

3.) When I installed the kit I followed the instructions for modifying the valve body exactly, but I didn't quite understand the part on adjusting the bands. I am the kind of person who needs exact instructions, and "tighten until snug" doesn't work for me. If someone were to tell me how to bake a cake using a pinch or this, or a dash of that, it'll be the worst cake ever. Sooo, I did adjust the rear band the best I could, but didn't touch the front.

4.) As far as I know, the trans was in perfect working order when I installed the kit. I was pretty easy on it until I was able to install the shift kit so I didn't get on it much, but as far as I could tell it was just fine. The 2-3 shift wasn't crisp at all, just sliding into gear it seemed, but it never slipped. Also the fluid and pan was clean when I pulled it apart to modify the valve body.



Ok, now for the other issue. Not so much a problem(I think), just annoying, but it may have something to do with the flare-up issue so I'm including it. Well, I knew the trans would shift much firmer after installing the shift kit, but I didn't expect it to be so harsh all the time. In first gear, it won't shift until I reach ~2250 rpm, and is harsh, pretty much chirping the tires every time not matter how easy I am on the gas pedal. The same for the 2-3 shift, but not quite as harsh. I can't tell you what mph is is since the speedo has never worked (need to have a cable made). I driver around town on crappy touring tires that are easy to spin, but I keep thinking I'm going to get pulled over one of these day for it. In regards to this problem, here is some additional info:

1.) When I initially installed the shift kit I intended to buy a higher stall converter, so when I drilled the holes in the plate they were drilled to maximum diameter. I'm sure this has something to do with it, but I don't know how much.

2.) For the 1-2 shift, I originally left the check ball out and the shift from first gear was ridiculously harsh, so I went back and reinstalled the check ball. That helped, but it's still not great.

3.) Just to see what it would do, I disconnected the kickdowncable from the carb and drove it around to see if it would help the 1-2 shift. It did, but the absolute lowest rpm it would shift would be just under 2k. I remember before the shift kit, if I disconnected the kickdown cable it would almost instantly shift to 2nd as soon as the car started to move.




Well, I hope that is enough info, but I can definitely answer almost any question since I've done all the work on the car myself. Crossing my finders, I hope this an easy fix. :?
 
Uop,hopefully 68Fishy(Tracy)will see this and give you some help.He,s installed a bunch of the TransGo-2 kits and knows them inside out.Good Luck.

P.S don,t drive anymore without the kickdown,it will fry the tranny.
 
No worries on the driving without the kickdown. That was just a test, and I did not try to get on it at all.

Thanks though :drinkers:
 
"Snug" on the front band is 72 in-lbs per the factory manual. But if you're using a 1/4" combination wrench, you probably won't hurt anything by going hand tight. How many turns did you back it off from snug? Somewhere I've seen a chart that gave the number of turns for each kickdown apply lever ratio. This would be the scientific way to set it. But for troubleshooting purposes, I would tighten the front band 1/2 turn and test drive. This should make a difference. If not the band isn't your issue.

As for the thumpy shifts, you drilled all the holes to the max size? IIRC the instructions say this is for "Race" only. HD/street is a smaller hole. You can always make them bigger (kit used to come with extra gaskets for this reason).
 
"Snug" on the front band is 72 in-lbs per the factory manual. But if you're using a 1/4" combination wrench, you probably won't hurt anything by going hand tight. How many turns did you back it off from snug? Somewhere I've seen a chart that gave the number of turns for each kickdown apply lever ratio. This would be the scientific way to set it. But for troubleshooting purposes, I would tighten the front band 1/2 turn and test drive. This should make a difference. If not the band isn't your issue.

As for the thumpy shifts, you drilled all the holes to the max size? IIRC the instructions say this is for "Race" only. HD/street is a smaller hole. You can always make them bigger (kit used to come with extra gaskets for this reason).


I only adjusted the rear band since I didn't think the way I was doing it was accurate enough. I left the front band alone, figuring it could be easily adjusted if it wasn't right. As for the rear band, I tightened it until I got to what I felt was snug, then 3.5 turns out. I know this is a stupid stupid question, but could you explain what each band does? Not exactly the kind of question that should be coming from someone who tore his tranny apart, I know.

As for drilling the holes, at the time I was planning on a higher stall converter and technically this is my race car, so that's what I did. Since then I've decided to drop the lockup trans idea and build the all original 904 non lockup pulled from my buddy's 73 cuda. I won't have this issue when that's done (lessons learned), but I do plan on running this trans for a while, as long as it lasts. Got other things that need to be addressed first. The shifting isn't a deal breaker, but it does get annoying. It's not the feeling of the shift, it's the screech of the tires that gets me.

I can try tightening the front band, but it'll be this weekend before I can get to it.

Thanks :toothy7:
 
......the rear band is adj 2 turns out....front band depending on ur lever ratio[its marked on it] 2 1/4 for starters....u can adj the line pressure down acouple of turns, and pull out the cupped restrictor............kim........
 
......the rear band is adj 2 turns out....front band depending on ur lever ratio[its marked on it] 2 1/4 for starters....u can adj the line pressure down acouple of turns, and pull out the cupped restrictor............kim........



You're not the first person to mention the cupped restrictor. My trans didn't have one. I wonder if that means anything. :?
 
Ok, so the first issue I'm having is a flare-up at the 2-3 shift. It happens whether it shifts on its own, or if shifted manually, at moderate to full throttle. When cruising at low rpm the flare is very minimal, if not unnoticeable, but when I go wot and shift at 5500 it'll flare so much it'll almost make the motor hit the rev limiter set at 6000. Here is some additional info to help:

Well, I knew the trans would shift much firmer after installing the shift kit, but I didn't expect it to be so harsh all the time. In first gear, it won't shift until I reach ~2250 rpm, and is harsh, pretty much chirping the tires every time not matter how easy I am on the gas pedal. The same for the 2-3 shift, but not quite as harsh.

Can you please clarify what I highlighted? Your first issue you said is flare up then the other issue is it shifts too harsh. Those are complete opposites.

You're not the first person to mention the cupped restrictor. My trans didn't have one. I wonder if that means anything. :?

They don't have a cupped restrictor installed from the factory. That's a part in the TF-2 kit that you install.
 
Can you please clarify what I highlighted? Your first issue you said is flare up then the other issue is it shifts too harsh. Those are complete opposites.

Sorry if that is a little confusing. The main issue is the flare-up. It only happens on the 2-3 shift at moderate to WOT. At a WOT shift it will flare over 300 rpm and then shift hard, chirping the tires. At WOT the 1-2 shift is fast and firm.


As far as the harsh shifting part, that's just at very very light throttle, cruising around town. Mainly the 1-2 shift. It'll chirp the tires pretty much no matter what I do. This probably has nothing to do with the 2-3 flare-up issue though, and is just because the valve body was reprogrammed. I've never owned a trans with a shift kit before.

They don't have a cupped restrictor installed from the factory. That's a part in the TF-2 kit that you install.

Of course I lost the instructions, but I do not remember anything about installing restrictor plug in the trans. In any case, there isn't one.


Hope this helped clear things up.
 
I think the big picture we're missing here is that you don't have any pictures of the 360 powered RX-7 in your sig...
 
Sorry if that is a little confusing. The main issue is the flare-up. It only happens on the 2-3 shift at moderate to WOT. At a WOT shift it will flare over 300 rpm and then shift hard, chirping the tires. At WOT the 1-2 shift is fast and firm.


As far as the harsh shifting part, that's just at very very light throttle, cruising around town. Mainly the 1-2 shift. It'll chirp the tires pretty much no matter what I do. This probably has nothing to do with the 2-3 flare-up issue though, and is just because the valve body was reprogrammed. I've never owned a trans with a shift kit before.

Of course I lost the instructions, but I do not remember anything about installing restrictor plug in the trans. In any case, there isn't one.


Hope this helped clear things up.

Yes that clarifies things, thanks. If you back off the throttle pressure adjustment it'll soften the low speed shifts and lower their shift points but since you said you drilled out the holes in the transfer plate to the max it may always shift pretty harsh. I'm at a loss as to why the 2-3 shift hesitates/flares up then hits hard. I've seen them flare up and I've seen them shift to harsh but never at the same time. You can try adjusting the front band like mentioned earlier and see what happens but it generally only affects the 1-2 shift.

If you want the TF-2 instructions PM me with your e-mail address I can e-mail them to you. I'm pretty sure I have an extra cupped restrictor if you need one but I can't imagine it'll solve the 2-3 shift problem because it restricts oil flow to the high clutch and since yours already hesitates going into 3rd it may make it worse. If you want a restrictor just let me know in the PM and I'll look and if I have one I'll send it to you.
 
I'm at a loss as to why the 2-3 shift hesitates/flares up then hits hard. I've seen them flare up and I've seen them shift to harsh but never at the same time. You can try adjusting the front band like mentioned earlier and see what happens but it generally only affects the 1-2 shift.

Well that's a little disheartening. What would the fix be if it flared and didn't shift hard? I can' help but think it's something simple, like and adjustment I made, or didn't make.

If you want the TF-2 instructions PM me with your e-mail address I can e-mail them to you.

I appreciate the offer for the instructions. I'm a little miffed at myself for losing them.


Also, how bad is this flare up on the trans anyway?
 
I think the big picture we're missing here is that you don't have any pictures of the 360 powered RX-7 in your sig...

I was thinking the same exact thing. I have to see this.


There's one of my engine bay in my avatar, but other than that I don't have any (decent) pictures of the car. Well, not that I'd be proud to show off anyway, since they're all crappy phone pics. About the only thing I've got that's relatively decent is a video, and it's not that great either. First time at the track, taking it EXTREMELY easy so as to not break anything. Ran something like a 8.5 @ 87, or close to that at least.

 
Well that's a little disheartening. What would the fix be if it flared and didn't shift hard? I can' help but think it's something simple, like and adjustment I made, or didn't make.

Generally flare up on the 2-3 shift is because of very loose clutch plate clearances in the front clutch pack, leaking reaction shaft sealing rings, mis-adjusted throttle pressure linkage, or low pressure. Since you said you didn't adjust the front band I'd try that first just to see what happens. I guess it's possible if it's real loose it's releasing before the front clutch gets fully engaged. The only thing is since the cupped restrictor isn't in there is it may have the opposite of flare up which is overlap. That's when it shifts into 3rd gear but for a second 2nd gear is still energized causing a bind up. That's also extremely hard on a trans.

I appreciate the offer for the instructions. I'm a little miffed at myself for losing them.

Also, how bad is this flare up on the trans anyway?

Flare up is extremely hard on a transmission. Basically what's happening is the clutch plates are slipping badly when it flares up on the 2-3 shift. A transmission won't last long at all if the clutch plates are slipping.
 
by chance, would that overlap cause something that sounds like a grinding noise while trying to shift from 2-3?
 
Mmmmmm, I appreciate the help. I'm going to try messing with it on Saturday, and will post up what I find.

Thanks
 
What was the transmission lie before the kit? Had you tried a full power upshift with it? I think the tire chirping is the combination of tires and low speed convertor more so than the larger holes but one never knows. What ratio is/was the kickdown band apply lever? Flare going into high gear to me is saying you have an internal oil sealing issue. You should have needed that cupped plug to prevent overlap. Not have flare.
 
Maybe a drum lip seal has gone bad.

You did check trans fluid level warm in N... right?
 
What was the transmission lie before the kit? Had you tried a full power upshift with it? I think the tire chirping is the combination of tires and low speed convertor more so than the larger holes but one never knows. What ratio is/was the kickdown band apply lever? Flare going into high gear to me is saying you have an internal oil sealing issue. You should have needed that cupped plug to prevent overlap. Not have flare.


The trans was fine as far as I know. It shifted fine through all gears and did not slip. However, this was a used transmission of unknown history, so you never know. As for the chirping tires, yes, these tires are super hard touring tires, so they are very easy to chirp.
 
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