A-Body Round #2- My '76 Scamp restore...

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Well, I made it to the Hot Rod Power Tour today, mostly without incident. The last 3 miles to get in was way backed up and apparently my fan decided to blow it's fuse, so the radiator ended up puking. Waited half an hour or so and it cooled down enough to limp it the rest of the way there. The way home was no problem since I was able to keep moving. I did get another fuse and it blew immediately, so need to track down that issue.

I can't count how many people in line offered help- truly a nice bunch!

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Got my catch can in UPS today and installed it. Should take care of the oil mist I was getting out of the valve cover.
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Finally got around to trimming the old piece of trunk carpet to go around the battery box and the added electrical component plate... looks much better! Undecided if I want to make some kind of cover to go over the electrical plate or not.

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Successful 282 mile trip up to Ohio to see my parents in the Scamp today. Seems like I must have done a decent job on the project since it made it!

Only real issue so far in probably the 7 or 800 miles since getting it running has been that the 30A fuse for the fan has blown twice... did it when waiting in line to get into the Hot Rod Power Tour in BG a few weeks ago... replaced the fuse and it has worked perfectly for several hundred miles... and then today it blew again about halfway through the trip... not sure what's going on with that yet but will figure it out- at least I know now to carry spares...

Probably hang out a couple days and then head back...

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when the fan initially 'kicks in' it's likely to be drawing more than 30a at that moment. i've always run a 40a fuse for any decent sized electric fan and not blown a fuse yet.
neil.
 
mygasser said:
when the fan initially 'kicks in' it's likely to be drawing more than 30a at that moment. i've always run a 40a fuse for any decent sized electric fan and not blown a fuse yet.
neil.
Click to expand...

Cool. That was going to be my next attempt. The instructions that came with it said to use a 30, but it obviously isn't holding up so I'll try popping a 40 in before I head back home and see if it lives.
 
Found a nice shady spot at a local car show near my folks' place and spent several hours catching up with a close friend I hadn't seen in person for almost 5 years... Great day! My buddy won a trophy with his 53 Ford Pickup- I took a big L! Lol

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Put 730 miles on this weekend. I'd say that's a pretty good test drive and it ran perfect!

Fan cycled on and off probably 20 times on the trip and blew the 30A fuse once. I replaced it with a 40A and will see if it works OK with that as time goes on.

My son and I pretty much decided that one of this winter's projects needs to be air conditioning! It was WARM out there!
 
AC is almost a must this summer, its been hot here in WV.
 
@TT5.9mag - Tagging you here since you'd asked for an update but didn't want to muddy up the other draw-through turbo thread with my progress...

Had an appt with a tuner today. Spent the first good while working on fueling while driving on the street. It was apparently running pretty lean and there was a decent stumble in the higher rev range. Below is the fueling chart he ended up finishing with. Purplish stuff in the bottom right side is decel. Green is all looking pretty good. The orange/pink area is something he manually adjusted to overcome the high rev stumble we were experiencing.

Fueling chart.jpg


Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that my timing control is working at all as any changes he made on the laptop were not actually changing on the engine/running. We waited on the phone about an hour to get to Holley Tech support and they ended up saying that timing control just won't work with the Sniper on my application. Tried sending me over to the MSD side to talk to them but after waiting on hold a while we gave up on it.

At this point, I need to figure out why the timing control isn't working and get that rectified and then probably go back to the tuner again so that we can do that portion. At this point, we didn't bother loading it on the dyno as all we'd really do is convert money into heat and noise just to get a low number.

We did try advancing the timing a little bit by rotating the distributor, but then my idle got much worse, so moved it back.

My current set-up that I did based on reading forums and youtube videos includes the following:
  • I used the stock magnetic distributor that came with the car. I had pulled out the vacuum advance parts, moved the weights out and JB-welded them in position, and drilled a hole to lock the 2 plates in the distributor together.
  • The original mopar ignition box was removed.
  • I used the Holley Coil Driver Module they offer.
It's wired as per the below diagram from the Holley Manual for Timing Control Ignition
1721856027047.png


The thing the Holley guys were hung up on is that I guess I need an adjustable rotor, which mine doesn't seem to have since it's just a modified version of the original Mopar electronic distributor.

1721856128961.png


At this point it is running and driving well, but timing is just barely BTDC. The tuner feels like there is still a lot of power left on the table that he can get out once we figure out how to get the timing to actually adjust like it should.

Time for more research and probably vast sums of cash to get that part working... LOL
 
rich_mc said:
@TT5.9mag - Tagging you here since you'd asked for an update but didn't want to muddy up the other draw-through turbo thread with my progress...

Had an appt with a tuner today. Spent the first good while working on fueling while driving on the street. It was apparently running pretty lean and there was a decent stumble in the higher rev range. Below is the fueling chart he ended up finishing with. Purplish stuff in the bottom right side is decel. Green is all looking pretty good. The orange/pink area is something he manually adjusted to overcome the high rev stumble we were experiencing.

View attachment 1716280697

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that my timing control is working at all as any changes he made on the laptop were not actually changing on the engine/running. We waited on the phone about an hour to get to Holley Tech support and they ended up saying that timing control just won't work with the Sniper on my application. Tried sending me over to the MSD side to talk to them but after waiting on hold a while we gave up on it.

At this point, I need to figure out why the timing control isn't working and get that rectified and then probably go back to the tuner again so that we can do that portion. At this point, we didn't bother loading it on the dyno as all we'd really do is convert money into heat and noise just to get a low number.

We did try advancing the timing a little bit by rotating the distributor, but then my idle got much worse, so moved it back.

My current set-up that I did based on reading forums and youtube videos includes the following:
  • I used the stock magnetic distributor that came with the car. I had pulled out the vacuum advance parts, moved the weights out and JB-welded them in position, and drilled a hole to lock the 2 plates in the distributor together.
  • The original mopar ignition box was removed.
  • I used the Holley Coil Driver Module they offer.
It's wired as per the below diagram from the Holley Manual for Timing Control Ignition
View attachment 1716280711

The thing the Holley guys were hung up on is that I guess I need an adjustable rotor, which mine doesn't seem to have since it's just a modified version of the original Mopar electronic distributor.

View attachment 1716280713

At this point it is running and driving well, but timing is just barely BTDC. The tuner feels like there is still a lot of power left on the table that he can get out once we figure out how to get the timing to actually adjust like it should.

Time for more research and probably vast sums of cash to get that part working... LOL
Click to expand...
I guess that’s a pretty good update, I mean at least the fueling is dialed in and the timing is stuck low so you can drive it and not grenade anything. You’ll get the timing figured out and it’ll be something simple I hope. You’ve got all the hard parts done. Now just the finicky shtuff.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I guess that’s a pretty good update, I mean at least the fueling is dialed in and the timing is stuck low so you can drive it and not grenade anything. You’ll get the timing figured out and it’ll be something simple I hope. You’ve got all the hard parts done. Now just the finicky shtuff.
Click to expand...

Yep- it's not the update I was hoping for, but at least it's progress... I'll probably try to get MSD on the phone tomorrow when I'm not sitting there burning up hours with the tuner guy... I'm thinking maybe just maybe this might be the missing piece of the puzzle https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_boxes/street_and_strip/parts/6530
 
Spoke with MSD today to get their guidance and then with the tuner again to review their recommendations.

It sounds like that MSD 6AL-2 Programmable CD Box, another MAP sensor, and some more wiring should solve my issue.

Probably try to order that stuff in the next few days and hope for the best (fingers crossed)
 
Big car show in town here tomorrow so there is a bunch of downtown cruising tonight. Tuning was successful. Got 2 burnouts in. No cloud of smoke but I could smell rubber! Now I'm even more anxious to get the timing advanced!
 
What a spectacular night! Took a nice cruise up to the river and back of about 80 miles... about 75 degrees. Windows down. Radio up. THIS is what makes all the time, money, and effort worth it...

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rich_mc said:
@TT5.9mag - Tagging you here since you'd asked for an update but didn't want to muddy up the other draw-through turbo thread with my progress...

Had an appt with a tuner today. Spent the first good while working on fueling while driving on the street. It was apparently running pretty lean and there was a decent stumble in the higher rev range. Below is the fueling chart he ended up finishing with. Purplish stuff in the bottom right side is decel. Green is all looking pretty good. The orange/pink area is something he manually adjusted to overcome the high rev stumble we were experiencing.

View attachment 1716280697

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that my timing control is working at all as any changes he made on the laptop were not actually changing on the engine/running. We waited on the phone about an hour to get to Holley Tech support and they ended up saying that timing control just won't work with the Sniper on my application. Tried sending me over to the MSD side to talk to them but after waiting on hold a while we gave up on it.

At this point, I need to figure out why the timing control isn't working and get that rectified and then probably go back to the tuner again so that we can do that portion. At this point, we didn't bother loading it on the dyno as all we'd really do is convert money into heat and noise just to get a low number.

We did try advancing the timing a little bit by rotating the distributor, but then my idle got much worse, so moved it back.

My current set-up that I did based on reading forums and youtube videos includes the following:
  • I used the stock magnetic distributor that came with the car. I had pulled out the vacuum advance parts, moved the weights out and JB-welded them in position, and drilled a hole to lock the 2 plates in the distributor together.
  • The original mopar ignition box was removed.
  • I used the Holley Coil Driver Module they offer.
It's wired as per the below diagram from the Holley Manual for Timing Control Ignition
View attachment 1716280711

The thing the Holley guys were hung up on is that I guess I need an adjustable rotor, which mine doesn't seem to have since it's just a modified version of the original Mopar electronic distributor.

View attachment 1716280713

At this point it is running and driving well, but timing is just barely BTDC. The tuner feels like there is still a lot of power left on the table that he can get out once we figure out how to get the timing to actually adjust like it should.

Time for more research and probably vast sums of cash to get that part working... LOL
Click to expand...
Did you ever figure out something for the timing control?
I am about to attempt to do the same thing with our slant with a snipe and convert it over to letting the sniper control timing.
Holley is right, you have to have an adjustable rotor because otherwise with everything locked out, there is no way to adjust the timing as the motor revs because before it was done with weights but now there's nothing in the distributor to change the timing, it's just locked out and stay at the same timing, why luckily setting the timing low you haven't hurt the motor.
What I have figured out that I believe will work(haven't tried it yet, but everything lines up in my head) is you get a distributor from an 80s lean burn slant six. Those were computer-controlled timing so they come pre-locked out with no vacuum advanced but the internals are able to adjust the timing electronically. And they are cheap, like a 100 bucks remanded off like Rockauto. Should all wire in the similarly and have the actual timing control.
And next time you go to check the timing and all that, you have to have someone help and you run the motor through the timing graphs and make sure everything lines ups. So you rev it up and make sure whatever it says on the sniper dash correlates to what it's actually reading on the balancer and that it is close all the way from idle to wherever all the timing is in it, so 3000 rpm or so.
 
@Cudakid2967 you need to study a little more. Locked out timing is exactly that, locked out. If you set it to 15 degrees it’s 15 degrees everywhere. Idle, 2000, 5000, 9000 rpm it’s always 15 degrees. You’re correct that a lean burn distributor was locked out with no mechanical or vacuum advance curve built in, but your statement (and I quote) “the internals are able to adjust timing electronically” is absolutely not going to happen. Those distributors were controlled from an outside source, Just like using a locked out MSD (or any other locked out distributor) with a programmable box.
 
TT5.9mag said:
@Cudakid2967 you need to study a little more. Locked out timing is exactly that, locked out. If you set it to 15 degrees it’s 15 degrees everywhere. Idle, 2000, 5000, 9000 rpm it’s always 15 degrees. You’re correct that a lean burn distributor was locked out with no mechanical or vacuum advance curve built in, but your statement (and I quote) “the internals are able to adjust timing electronically” is absolutely not going to happen. Those distributors were controlled from an outside source, Just like using a locked out MSD (or any other locked out distributor) with a programmable box.
Click to expand...
Guess wording isn't right but what I mean. Instead of the distributor using weights like what the early one did, those one come with all that already taken out and are ready with the aid of like you said an msd box or in this case the sniper system itself to build a timing ramp through the sniper.
 
There ya go. If you control the timing with a sniper, then you will need a locked out distributor and a lean burn distributor will work. Adjusting the rotor phasing can be tricky, (MSD has an adjustable rotor) but they can work.
 
I see the conversation above, but to answer your question, I have made no further progress on timing control. I was previously thinking that the MSD6AL-2 programmable would get me there, but I'm having some difficulty in understanding how it will work because the locked out distributor I have now isn't able to be phased between the mag pickup and the rotor.

Right now, my timing checked with a light stays right at about 20 btdc regardless of rpm, though it does seem to drop down to 5-10 btdc for a fraction of a second right when the engine is revved before immediately returning to 20.

I did try an experiment after watching the recent Stay Tuned turbo install and got to thinking that maybe a stock distributor might work better if I just used the mechanical advance and left vacuum unhooked. I sourced a used stock distributor from a local mopar scrapper guy and cleaned it up and installed. With that, it would barely start and ran way worse... bad enough that I didn't even try driving with it and just reinstalled my locked distributor with it back at 20 btdc and it's back to running very well. At this point, I know there is more power to be had by timing control, but as said above, don't understand how to get there without the adjustable rotor distributor...so just driving and enjoying it as is for now as it runs and drives great...

I do plan to go to the Slant 6 races in Knoxville with it next month and am hoping to get to look at some of the set ups the guys there have and maybe figure out a plan... I did also talk to Bryce @ Gill recently and he mentioned a future project of a crank trigger wheel to work with the Torqstorm pulley, so kinda biding time to see where that project goes... It seems like crank trigger, coil-on-plug, port injection etc is the best answer, but that's not a task I'm ready to try to tackle at this point.
 
TT5.9mag said:
There ya go. If you control the timing with a sniper, then you will need a locked out distributor and a lean burn distributor will work. Adjusting the rotor phasing can be tricky, (MSD has an adjustable rotor) but they can work.
Click to expand...
Do any of the adjustable rotors work on slant distributers?
rich_mc said:
I see the conversation above, but to answer your question, I have made no further progress on timing control. I was previously thinking that the MSD6AL-2 programmable would get me there, but I'm having some difficulty in understanding how it will work because the locked out distributor I have now isn't able to be phased between the mag pickup and the rotor.

Right now, my timing checked with a light stays right at about 20 btdc regardless of rpm, though it does seem to drop down to 5-10 btdc for a fraction of a second right when the engine is revved before immediately returning to 20.

I did try an experiment after watching the recent Stay Tuned turbo install and got to thinking that maybe a stock distributor might work better if I just used the mechanical advance and left vacuum unhooked. I sourced a used stock distributor from a local mopar scrapper guy and cleaned it up and installed. With that, it would barely start and ran way worse... bad enough that I didn't even try driving with it and just reinstalled my locked distributor with it back at 20 btdc and it's back to running very well. At this point, I know there is more power to be had by timing control, but as said above, don't understand how to get there without the adjustable rotor distributor...so just driving and enjoying it as is for now as it runs and drives great...

I do plan to go to the Slant 6 races in Knoxville with it next month and am hoping to get to look at some of the set ups the guys there have and maybe figure out a plan... I did also talk to Bryce @ Gill recently and he mentioned a future project of a crank trigger wheel to work with the Torqstorm pulley, so kinda biding time to see where that project goes... It seems like crank trigger, coil-on-plug, port injection etc is the best answer, but that's not a task I'm ready to try to tackle at this point.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, if I can get this to work like I think it should, I'll let ya know. There is definitely some power and drive ability with some actual timing control but at the same time if it's working why mess with it as well lol
 
To further explain my confusion, the distributors I have been finding on other projects(non-slant) I've read about really have like an arc shaped contact inside the cap, so even if the rotor isn't exactly aligned with the plug wire terminal, it can still send spark. Mine just has a small round contact at each plug wire terminal, so having the rotor contact farther away axially from the coil wire contact when timing gets advanced farther makes the spark have to jump even farther... I'm not a mechanic, so I just don't really see how that will work... though I could be wrong...

I did read an older thread on slant six distributors on the other site and saw where a guy had tried making a rotor with a wide arc shaped contact on the end to allow for more timing advancement, but I got sidetracked and don't think I ever got to the results part of the thread.
 
Cudakid2967 said:
Do any of the adjustable rotors work on slant distributers?
Click to expand...

Not that I've been able to find yet... not saying there isn't, but I haven't found it.... I did talk with a tech guy at the DUI distributor place and the HEI one they make for the Slant is basically just a stock distributor with an hei module added to it, so nothing special as far as the rotor goes.
 
rich_mc said:
To further explain my confusion, the distributors I have been finding on other projects(non-slant) I've read about really have like an arc shaped contact inside the cap, so even if the rotor isn't exactly aligned with the plug wire terminal, it can still send spark. Mine just has a small round contact at each plug wire terminal, so having the rotor contact farther away axially from the coil wire contact when timing gets advanced farther makes the spark have to jump even farther... I'm not a mechanic, so I just don't really see how that will work... though I could be wrong...

I did read an older thread on slant six distributors on the other site and saw where a guy had tried making a rotor with a wide arc shaped contact on the end to allow for more timing advancement, but I got sidetracked and don't think I ever got to the results part of the thread.
Click to expand...
I'll be honest, not quite sure the full science behind it either so guess we'll see it works well or not lol. Mines not boosted but it's got some good cam behind it so it should be happy or not happy. I've used the sniper timing before on a 318 with there hall effects distributor and rotor in that isn't that wide so think it'll work, especially with the later style distributor that's meant for the different style of timing control
 
Cudakid2967 said:
I'll be honest, not quite sure the full science behind it either so guess we'll see it works well or not lol. Mines not boosted but it's got some good cam behind it so it should be happy or not happy. I've used the sniper timing before on a 318 with there hall effects distributor and rotor in that isn't that wide so think it'll work, especially with the later style distributor that's meant for the different style of timing control
Click to expand...

Cool. Def keep me posted on any success or lessons... Is there a thread here on your project?
 
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