A904 renew w/pics, tools

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KitCarlson

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About 30 years ago I replaced the A904 on my 66 273 Barracuda with a used unit from another 66. The original transmission had about 145K miles and 12 years of use before me. It slipped with a chatter, in very cold weather going up a steep hill. I lucked on to good transmission at the time, and made the swap, thinking to rebuild it in the future.

The internal pictures are of the transmission including valve body, are uncleaned, in the original state. It looks nearly dry, due to the 30 years of sitting. It has always been kept inside.

I found only a few worn items: tail shaft housing bushing, two rear clutch friction disks, a dark rear band friction color, and thrust washers #1 and #2. The rest of the parts were in specification, however all normal wear parts and seals were replaced.

A few simple tools were fabricated for the process. I used a couple 3/8" threaded rods and square tube to pull the pump. Alignment studs were made from two 3" 5/16"-18T bolts, for output shaft support and pump. The large bolt, C-channel and U bracket served to compress the the front clutch spring. The C-channel was used to bolt to the bell-housing for stability. Not show are hand tools as sockets and screwdrivers. A couple large 1/2" sockets were bolted together to drive out and install the tail shaft bushing. A freezer cooled the tail shaft bushing for easy installation. Four pieces of large punched angle irons were used to fabricate a frame, that bolted to the rear pan holes. The frame was used to hold the transmission vertical, in a 55 gallon plastic drum, for assembly of the rotating parts.

I found the hardest and most time consuming part was the cleaning. The assembly was fun and easy.

When doing a trial assembly to measure end play, it was discovered that the pump would not drop easily in the case without outer o-ring. While the two pump haves appeared aligned they were off a bit. The solution was to loosen the pump halves, insert in case for alignment and re-tighten bolts.

In setting the end play I used a a 0.062 #1, 0.042" #2 and a 0.068" between the shafts resulting in 0.024" end play. The worn thrust washers measured 0.022" at the wear surface on #2 and 0.040" on #1. The service manual suggested 0.062" on #1 and #2 but that resulted in nearly zero end play.

I found that the rear band setting specification for 1965-66' is 5 1/4" loose from 72"# tight. This is much looser that 727 and other later 904 transmissions. The rear band seemed tight on disassembly, so I wonder if that could have been a problem resulting in the rear clutch and band heat/wear issue. Perhaps there was maladjustment at some time.

I purchased a TransGo TF-2 kit. I may install it on the valve body of the spare transmission for testing, once this one proves to work with the standard VB.

I am welcome to any comments.
 

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Cleaning all the parts is a time consuming job. Lately I just disassemble everything and put it in boxes and haul it 5 miles to the machine shop and have them hot tank everything. They only charge $20 and in only takes them about 1/2 hr. to do it so I wait rather than stand for 2+ hrs. at my parts cleaner cleaning parts. My low back doesn't like that prolonged standing anymore.

A fool proof way to align the pump halves is to use 2 or 3 large hose clamps connected together to make one really big one that'll slip over the o.d. of the pump. You then snug the big hose clamp assy. down and it perfectly aligns the pump and then tighten the pump bolts. And leave the big outer o-ring off the pump when you first put it together to check the end play. Unless you get really lucky you'll have to pull the pump out again to swap to a different thickness selective thrust washer and leaving the o-ring off makes it super easy to get the pump back out. Once you have the end play set then install the o-ring.

btw; did you air pressure test components after the main assy. was completed, right? It's a great idea to do so you'll know there's no issue at all with the main assy. It always sucks when you do all that work and install it only to have it not work right because a lip seal rolled when you were assembling a clutch pack piston or a reaction shaft sealing ring broke when you installed the pump. And lets say you do modifications, such as installing the Trans-go kit and something doesn't work right you know the problem has to be in the valve body cause the parts in the main power assy. worked when pressure tested. If you'd like a chart to show you where to inject air to test each sub assy. I can post it.
 
fishy68,

Thank you for the response, I was looking forward to your post. I learn much, by reading your helpful posts.

I did an air test and all seems well, however the front clutch made the least amount of thud.

I found it interesting that the mechanical design of many parts including the valve body are done in a way, to reduce improper assembly. Parts including springs and spools differ in diameter. I can see from the parts, that the design and manufacturing teams had pride and ownership of the process. For a mechanical device, they rate very high for me.

I may renew the transmission that is currently in my car, after the swap, just because of curiosity and the fun of doing it.
 
i wish a lot more people would do there own stuff one it is a way to learn and then if it breaks they can fix it. thats the way i was taught. start out with something simple and get a maunal and do it, and if you need help search or ask freinds and the forms even youtube has a lot of good vids. after time they will be able to rebuild a trans, motor and even set up rear gears. thanks for the info
 
rlevs,

I agree learning and doing is good. Fixing something gives me a good feeling. Some find repairs frustrating, I find them enjoyable. A hobby car helps, because it takes the pressure off. No dire no need to get it done, to get to work in the morning.
 
Very informative post. Not to hijack, but if a running auto (727) sits w/ fluid for several years, is it advisable to rebuild? I have read a few articles about this, but seeing the homemade tools, and other things make me think I may try, although I have always been scared of autos. Definitely, I enjoy learning and doing new things.
 
I am no expert, I have heard that moisture can develop over time and swell friction materials. That can lead to a quick failure. I figure it is better to be proactive, and fix something before it totally fails, and is a mess inside.

Part costs seem reasonable, so to renew is cheap insurance.

Much of the work is about attention to details. Nothing was difficult.
 
fishy68,

Thank you for the response, I was looking forward to your post. I learn much, by reading your helpful posts.

I did an air test and all seems well, however the front clutch made the least amount of thud.

I found it interesting that the mechanical design of many parts including the valve body are done in a way, to reduce improper assembly. Parts including springs and spools differ in diameter. I can see from the parts, that the design and manufacturing teams had pride and ownership of the process. For a mechanical device, they rate very high for me.

I may renew the transmission that is currently in my car, after the swap, just because of curiosity and the fun of doing it.

Thanks Kit. I'm humbled.

The front clutch is generally quieter. I believe it's due to the different design of the return spring mechanism vs. the belleville spring in the rear clutch. As long as you hear it engage and don't hear much air leaking your generally good.

Ma Mopar did do a great job designing the torqueflite. I did my first 1 in 81 when I was a junior in high school auto mechanics with no help but the instructor, who was a very knowledgeable mechanic but mostly on Fords, and a Motor's manual which doesn't go into much detail. It worked great afterward and I was on cloud 9! A lot of my success had to do with Mopar designing a very simple trans. that even a 17 yr. old kid with only about 1 yr. of wrenching under his belt can do.
 
I am no expert, I have heard that moisture can develop over time and swell friction materials. That can lead to a quick failure. I figure it is better to be proactive, and fix something before it totally fails, and is a mess inside.

Part costs seem reasonable, so to renew is cheap insurance.

Much of the work is about attention to details. Nothing was difficult.

In addition, seals can dry up when sitting for an extended period so I agree it's good to take care of it now rather than later. It's never fun to install a trans. and have it only work for a short time then have to yank it back out again.
 
Kit, Thanks for the detailed writeup. It will inspire others to try this scary but very do-able job.

I also wondered about why 5-1/4 screw turns to adjust the rear band in my 64 Valiant's 904. It was answered by a knowledgable FABO guy w/ a link. That was because that band had multiple wraps. Later bands are a single piece, which is what I see in your photo. For that band, you should probably back off 2-1/2 turns or whatever is correct for later trannys. If already assembled, I wouldn't worry, and just adjust it correct on the next filter change (~100,000 miles).

I haven't done a 904 yet, but rebuilt my A-413 which is the FWD Torqueflite version of the 904. Indeed, it looks more like yours inside than my 64 & 65 904's do since it has the internal parking rod (instead of external cable) that probably started in 66. To remove the front pump, I just screwed in 2 bolts in the tapped holes until they bottomed against the case and tightened evenly to push the pump out. Did the same on my Mopar 604 tranny. Might work on a 904 & 727 too.

Besides long snap-ring pliers, the only special tool I used was my shop press to push in a metal piston to get the snap ring in. However, that spring is weak so could have done it by hand with a helper.
 
Bill,

I also rebuilt a A413 for my sons Omni many years ago. It was a do in a hurry. I do not remember much except that assembly of the over running clutch was a pain. The A904 was much more friendly.

Not sure about the double wrap, I thought that meant double wide. The Pictures in the 1966 SM show the same cast band as mine. Is there one that actually wraps twice in a spiral? The replacement band is same as the original band. I read something about the turns it has to do with the L/R lever ratio. There seems info on the KD ratios (4.2) for this trans, no information for the L/R lever differences.
 
Not sure about the double wrap, I thought that meant double wide. The Pictures in the 1966 SM show the same cast band as mine. Is there one that actually wraps twice in a spiral? The replacement band is same as the original band. I read something about the turns it has to do with the L/R lever ratio. There seems info on the KD ratios (4.2) for this trans, no information for the L/R lever differences.

Kit, concerning the rear band, spiral wrapped is about the best way I think to describe it. It may also be some wider, not sure though as I haven't compared it against a single wrap. Because it's double wrapped it takes more movement to compress it thus the reason for the different adjustment. I haven't worked on enough 904's to know what all yrs. they were used but they were used for a while and I believe they can be used in any 904 (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). There is only one lever ratio for the rear band so there is only 2 adjustments, 1 for the single wrap band and 1 for the double wrap. The front band is a "shifting band" so the factory used different ratio levers to suit there desire to have it shift how they wanted (firmness). The rear band is not a shifting band so it would make no difference on what ratio apply lever it used. Here's a picture of a double wrap band
 

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Kit, concerning the rear band, spiral wrapped is about the best way I think to describe it. It may also be some wider, not sure though as I haven't compared it against a single wrap. Because it's double wrapped it takes more movement to compress it thus the reason for the different adjustment. I haven't worked on enough 904's to know what all yrs. they were used but they were used for a while and I believe they can be used in any 904 (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). There is only one lever ratio for the rear band so there is only 2 adjustments, 1 for the single wrap band and 1 for the double wrap. The front band is a "shifting band" so the factory used different ratio levers to suit there desire to have it shift how they wanted (firmness). The rear band is not a shifting band so it would make no difference on what ratio apply lever it used. Here's a picture of a double wrap band

You are correct that double wrap bands can be used in any 904.
I think the case pawl is different though and they have to be used as a pair.
(I think I remember that correctly)
You have more current experience than I do on them.
 
they do not work on 904 for slant 6s......they take a different rear band
 
I found this interesting video from Chrysler MTSC for the 1966 Torqueflite, it covers the changes from 1965. Mine has the changes, it still has the earlier, internal rear tail shaft grease seal.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaFYblCU0hA"]MTSC - 1966, Volume 66-9 The 1966 Torqueflite - YouTube[/ame]

Thank you all for the comments.

I am waiting for better weather to do the install.
 
You are correct that double wrap bands can be used in any 904.
I think the case pawl is different though and they have to be used as a pair.
(I think I remember that correctly)
You have more current experience than I do on them.

I think your right on the pawl. I forgot about that. Actually I probably don't have more current experience with 904's as everything I've done in the past few yrs. has been 727's. I just knew about the rear band differences.

Tony bought up a point about the rear band on a /6 being different. I had forgotten but I did notice they are listed seperately. Not sure what they did different as I haven't been into a /6 904.
 
I think your right on the pawl. I forgot about that. Actually I probably don't have more current experience with 904's as everything I've done in the past few yrs. has been 727's. I just knew about the rear band differences.

Tony bought up a point about the rear band on a /6 being different. I had forgotten but I did notice they are listed seperately. Not sure what they did different as I haven't been into a /6 904.


One up on me, as I have done 0 /6 904's :D
Now I can stack that info in there with all the other stuff I don't remember.

Seems like it's been 20 years ago,,,wait, it HAS been 20 years ago.:eek:ops:
 
i have not done a /6 904 yet...but I bought a slant 6 rear band, was not paying attention...LOL...that is how I know they are different...

starting to see what parts i got and what parts i need to get a 904 rebuilt in the next couple of weeks...
 
Also the '67 and earlier V8 904 use the single wrap band. From what I understand this is a /6 trans that bolts to a V8. When I rebuilt mine I used a kevlar single wrap just to be sure I had holding power there (since this is what holds first while you're manually shifting). This was my first trans rebuild and it seems to be ok for the little bit I've driven it behind the Mighty Mighty Three 18.

All that aside, I don't think you can put a double wrap into the 67 and older V8 trans no matter what.
 
Fishy, can you post that diagram for air testing the main assembly?
 
Fishy, can you post that diagram for air testing the main assembly?

Man I'm sorry but I can't seem to find it. I got a new computer a couple months back and could have swore I transfered all that stuff over but for some reason it's not there. I'll have to do some digging and get back to you.

EDIT, I didn't find my chart but found a you tube video that shows how to do it. He doesn't mention it but only use about 30 psi of air pressure.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvzSpMuCvgM"]904 Torqueflite Air Check - YouTube[/ame]
 
once each clutch pac has been reassembled...they can be mated with the pump to air test them before it goes back in the case.
 
once each clutch pac has been reassembled...they can be mated with the pump to air test them before it goes back in the case.

Yep. I do it that way first then retest when their installed in the case. I'd like to point out that when you have the clutch packs stacked on the pump reaction shaft hold on to the clutch packs good when you apply air. Even 30 psi. of air can shoot them right up and off the reaction shaft.
 
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