Advice: Solid Roller or Hydraulic Roller for street car

[rumblefish360]

One thing I don't know is would you run into valve clearance issues with the larger valves on the small bore. Others here can answer that.

A 318 can take a 2.02/1.60 valve set no problem.

(Below, Everyone else who doesn’t know the following)

The issue is valve shrouding which most people seem to make it a kiss of death issue and run to a smaller valve as a savior for this non issue dilemma, and then loose/leave power on the table by a good amount.

While valve shrouding is a power robber, it’s the least of your problems. You’ll have more problems with big lift cams and valve to piston clearance than issue from valve shrouding will ever cause.

You would have to massively lift the valve for any valve to cylinder wall issues. One of the draw backs to a 318 is the small bore size. Unless your in a bore size/CID limited arena somewhere, boring out the teen’s size is a winner on all fronts.

IF! You can bore the 318 60 thousandths, or more…. Go for it as long as the block and cylinder walls sonic check OK for it. The bigger bore is a minor increase in the engines CID but what it does on the otherwise is increase the area for the cylinder head to breathe better. Any cylinder head will flow better on a bigger bore. Bar none.

I always do say a thicker cylinder wall is better than a thin one. However, if you want to get every last bit of what the block/cylinder can do, bigger is better.

And that’s also why you hear the wave of people say get a 340.
If I already have the 318 block, I’m just punching it out as far as practical. If I can get a .090 over bore, I’m doing it. Unless, again, I’m rule limited to a certain CID.

 

[autoxcuda]

While true, I doubt he’ll have these problems with a mild street engine, but I never say never. Just doubtful, very.

What I would say is the factory Hyd. lifter is a heavy item and show’s limitations vs a solid lifter. This is the real caveat. I’m running the factory lifters now on the wife’s roller 360.

Once she gets bored of the power….. then a larger solid roller will take its place.

The few things that are nice of the solid roller (probably mentioned earlier I’m sure) are good pluses with my favorite one being the ability to RPM higher. Just give it the ability to breathe and it’ll go.


OP - @autoxcuda runs a small solid in his car and he’ll tell you. He’s in the car a bunch. I like his combo.

Very streetable, ~15 vac, gobs of torque, and really responsive to throttle position/movement,

236/242 @.050 with just .502/.511”, 110 center, solid flat tappet. 416”, mild port Ebrock’s, M1 single plane, “750” Silver Claw DP.

Edit to add: I have 3.23 but 24.5" diameter tires and a stock 340 converter. So that about like 3.50 gear with a 26.5" tire.

 

[Ottmundr]

You guys are amazing… thanks for all the valuable feedback. As a total novice when it comes to this stuff, i just don’t want to buy a hydraulic roller set up then wished I’d went solid… or vice versa. As you can see from some of my earlier posts I’ve been researching heads for a while now.. I’ve done the mental exercise of what magnum heads would entail, 302’s, EQ’s, my old 587’s, Speedmasters, and finally came around to Trickflows. I’m pretty set on keeping the 318. I do like the idea of a high revving small block. I’m sure eventually I’ll build the bottom end, but for now I want to run what I got…I’ve stumbled across a few 318’s with stock bottom end/trickflow heads that are making impressive power, using solid roller. This is one: https://youtu.be/o_rGgaJ169U?si=E6TO_GF89QVspGZl I know he’s since done a full build but I would love a 318 running 7’s in the 1/8th (mid-high 11’s in the 1/4), which I believe is probably around 400 hp.

A brief overview of what mine has for anyone that wants to know: 1406 4 barrel Edelbrock Carb, Weiand Stealth intake manifold, Dougs D453 headers, 2.5” duals all the way back with H pipe… Stock 2.76 granny gears at the moment. Currently very mild.

The car feels “peppy” but not fast by any means. My butt dyno believes my current set up might be around 190 at the wheels… pretty laughable. I know heads and gears are holding me back quite a bit at the moment, so those are the 2 things I’m taking care of asap, but due to budget it’s one thing at a time…

Gearing and your torque converter are your holdup. You already know this. Address that second! Have you addressed your suspension, tires and brakes first? If you can't control or stop your car, you better not go fast.
Hydraulic rollers will never rev as high as solid flat tappet. What heads do you have NOW? No matter what you do, you will have to replace the torque converter, and a flex plate is only around what? A hundred bucks?

My recommendation for what you want is speedmaster heads on a 360, check out 318willrun on youtube. Probably something like the Lunati voodoo 10200703 cam, and an airgap or cheapie knockoff. Gasket match the ***** with an aluminum bit on your die grinder, and do NOT polish the runners.

Look at it this way,
A cam is a physical computer program, much like an old computer punch card. The color of the punch card is not important, stop holding yourself up on roller cams. Let me put it another way. If you are going to upgrade to windows 10, you better not be running a 386sx20 without even a math coprocessor.

Or...
Consider the prices...

360LA

1980 360 Dodge Motor 4 barrel duel exhast - auto parts - by owner - vehicle automotive sale - craigslist

For sale 360 Dodge 360 Motor Long Block . Ran good when we put it in our project truck, Went a different way Motor was real strong and ran good been covered now for a couple of years. rear pickup...

klamath.craigslist.org

Or

Magnumswap.com

Dodge 5.9 magnum - auto parts - by owner - vehicle automotive sale

95 Dodge 5.9 magnum runs good , the tranny went out so the truck was junked because of the many problems, it will be usable from 94-02 second gen Dodge 15 and 25 hundred . I also have a good brain...

salem.craigslist.org

Edit:
I just remembered, search for @RustyRatRod guide for hot rod bliss or @318willrun $500 318 build. Those are good starting points. I'm done here. Good luck.

 

[273]

The rule of thumb for wedge max valve size is 52.5% which is a 2.05 for a 3.91", 2.10 for 4" etc..

 

[273]

it's a two-gear car, so who cares how much power it has at 7000 rpm.

With 4.10 he could pull to 95+mph in second, instead of 65 mph

 

[rumblefish360]

The rule of thumb for wedge max valve size is 52.5% which is a 2.05 for a 3.91", 2.10 for 4" etc..

Quite generous! You can see it in some other upper level cylinder heads valve selections. W9, Victor, Indy. Here you would be looking for a maximum return.

With 4.10 he could pull to 95+mph in second, instead of 65 mph

Yea, well, that’s AJ for ya. After all, in his opinion, there is to much power you can’t control in the street and hence you’re just wasting time and money spinning tires, waste of money and your time building such a beast just to sit and spin to loose a race.

Never mind your own self control on the gas pedal to self modulate the amount of throttle needed at any given time. Which you can’t do according to AJ.

 

[Mean416]

There are definitely cars out there that have uncontrollable levels of torque.



This thing is hilarious. Chirping the tires just parking XD

 

[rumblefish360]

Then the out of control action(s) are solely due to the driver and nothing else. Upgrades may be apparent and needed. Not the cars fault, not a power issue. It’s the application of power by a faulty unit. I’m know what the faulty part is.

It’s a loose nut behind the wheel. The loose nut usually suffers from a I-d-10-t problem. Sometimes it’s just for fun.


Love the video by the way. Very awesome.

 

[fishmens67]

Did you order the Whiplash?

 

[fishmens67]

If building a 450+ hp 318 probably solid roller under a hydraulic roller should be fine.

450 hp 318 looks good on paper.

 

[rumblefish360]

450 hp 318 “looks good on paper.”

Fixed!

 

[360notch]

Trick flow is a lot of head for a 318, there gonna want to work (make peak hp) in the 6500-7500+ rpm range with a decent cam in a 318.

trick flows are for around 500-600 hp builds maybe as low as high 400 hp, edelbrock are for 400-500 hp, you probably should go speedmaster or edelbrock's if looking for a 350-425 hp 318, 5500-6500 peak hp rpm.

Anything done to the short block? like zero decked at least.

Agree. For a stock stroke, 91 octane 318 (your profile says your location is California), you don't need aluminum heads, but they do look nice.

If you are in southern California, PM me. There are quite a few 67-69 barracuda people around here.

 

[rumblefish360]

Ahhhh, 273 is in Ontario Canada….