Advice vs pros and cons of engine flush

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Ken71Twister

Ken71Twister

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I’m hearing a few seconds of “ticking” when I first start my car (1971 318 engine) - guessing it to be a lifter not getting enough oil. My engine was rebuilt around 1990 and I’ve only put about 60000 miles on the engine since then. Much of that time was spent parked mid-way thru that period. I’ve changed the oil a few time and always used detergent oil. Here’s my question: What is the risk of giving the engine a good flush? I’ve had it on the highway a couple of times in recent months - but not a lot of mileage during the past few years.
 
Additional info: The engine has good compression and runs smoothly. The only issue I know of is the ticking that I mentioned above.
 
I guess your question would best be answered by you. If it was mine, I'd remove a valve cover and look at the top of the heads for any sludge buildup. You can also look through the heads into the lifter valley to inspect for sludge buildup there. I'm betting it's clean since you've kept the oil changed. If it is clean, I'd look elsewhere for the ticking.
 
Don't know of the wisdom but an old
Engine cleaning truck is to put a quart of diesel in place of a quart of oil and drive it that way for a short length of time.

I had a 460 Ford that lost the dist drive shaft.

I pulled a valve cover off and it was caked in wax like goo.

I drained the oil and filled the crank case with diesel and spun the oil pump with a drill and the occasional rotation of the crank

After some time the waxy goo desolved into the diesel and things were as clean as a baby's butt.

Drained it all filled with oil, new filter,
And drove it that way for years.
 
Also if you have adjustable rockers with those hydraulic lifters maybe a few are not adjusted enough
 
I have always wondered about doing this for the small tick on startup till the lifters fully pump up.

Put a few thousandths longer push rods in to give the lifters a little more preload?

See what people think, have never done this but think it will work.

Kind of like how I went in on a custom buildt 440 with adjustable roller rockers on a hydraulic cam. Gave the pre-load on the lifters another 1/2 turn, and it eliminated the ticking on startup.

Comments Appreciated....

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I see on Rock Auto they have 0.03 ths. longer push rods available.

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Determine which lifter is making noise. Remove the lifter inspect bottom and the cam lobe, inspect rocker arm and pushrod, worn or bent parts? Now take lifter apart and clean the insides.
 
Old school remedy for ticking hydraulic lifters is to add a quart of transmission fluid to the crankcase. Had mixed results with it but it is a cheap possible remedy.
 
Agreed, but there were many old school oils with low or no detergent. That’s why so many engines were all gummed up years ago compared to now.
 
To answer your question, I used to use a product called 5 Minute Motor Flush. I don't know what it was, but it was a clear liquid, and it apparently thinned the oil down. You put the entire quart in and idled the engine for 5 minutes; then drained the oil. It was supposed to clean out all crud, sludge and varnish. This was back in the mid 80s when I was doing a conventional oil change every 3,000 miles. I didn't start using synthetic exclusively until the early 90s. Anyway, at about 100,000 miles my '86 Dodge Caravan needed a head gasket (it was about 1991). After about 30 oil changes (I used the 5 Minute Motor Flush almost every time), the inside of the engine was surgically clean, and the honing marks in the cylinders looked new. Once I started using synthetic oil, I stopped using the 5 Minute Motor Flush, but I think it did its job well.
 
If you want to clean an engine, be careful using an additive, especially if it contains solvents. It could wash lube off surfaces causing damage. Maybe you have little to lose if you're trying to save an engine on its last legs. But if it's a good engine there are very effective oils designed to clean engines.

One is Valvoline Restore. It was discontinued for awhile, but has been reintroduced. It used to be readily available at Cummins dealers and parts centers. I don't know about now.
Premium Blue Restore
Another is HPL, and is what I would use. Less expensive and reported to be very effective. Did I say less expensive? :)
Engine Cleaner
 
413 said:
Agreed, but there were many old school oils with low or no detergent. That’s why so many engines were all gummed up years ago compared to now.
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That makes sense. I have mostly used it in hydraulic flat tappet engines that have sat for years and some cases decades.
 
Ken71Twister said:
I’m hearing a few seconds of “ticking” when I first start my car (1971 318 engine) - guessing it to be a lifter not getting enough oil. My engine was rebuilt around 1990 and I’ve only put about 60000 miles on the engine since then. Much of that time was spent parked mid-way thru that period. I’ve changed the oil a few time and always used detergent oil. Here’s my question: What is the risk of giving the engine a good flush? I’ve had it on the highway a couple of times in recent months - but not a lot of mileage during the past few years.
Click to expand...
Sad to say, it is probably cam lobe going away. If you run a good oil with zinc it may well last indefinitely. Happened to me with a factory 340 and 318. Both sat for extended lengths of time. The flush will likely not do anything as long as you do regular maintenance with a good oil and filter. I like the idea of a slightly longer pushrod, but I would measure with an adjustable measuring pushrod to see what it would take to get the proper preload. Assuming hydraulic lifters and stock rockers.
 
66fs said:
Sad to say, it is probably cam lobe going away. If you run a good oil with zinc it may well last indefinitely. Happened to me with a factory 340 and 318. Both sat for extended lengths of time. The flush will likely not do anything as long as you do regular maintenance with a good oil and filter. I like the idea of a slightly longer pushrod, but I would measure with an adjustable measuring pushrod to see what it would take to get the proper preload. Assuming hydraulic lifters and stock rockers.
Click to expand...
You may be correct - but I’m pretty sure that the parts list for my engine rebuild included a cam. That would put approximately 60,000 miles on the cam. Would it wear down that quickly?
 
Ken71Twister said:
You may be correct - but I’m pretty sure that the parts list for my engine rebuild included a cam. That would put approximately 60,000 miles on the cam. Would it wear down that quickly?
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I hope not. But our 318 only had 30,000 miles on it. Of course it still ran good, just had an annoying tick when cold. Probably put another 30,000 miles on it when I felt safe to put a small cam, 4 barrel carb, and intake on it for my son's 73 Dart. If it runs good I would not hesitate to run it.
 
I've told this story before, but when I was a bicycle ridin idiot kid, I used to ride over to see this OLD guy who ran a service station way further than I was supposed to ride my bike. lol I've seen him drain all the old oil out and fill it back up with 100% diesel fuel, start it and let it run for like 30 minutes. It was the blackest chit you ever saw comin out. lol Then he'd put a new filter on and fill it up with oil. Old man Balkom was his name. He said that's how he'd done it since he was a kid and that was probably about the turn of the 20th century, cause he was OLD and this was probably 72 or 73.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've told this story before, but when I was a bicycle ridin idiot kid, I used to ride over to see this OLD guy who ran a service station way further than I was supposed to ride my bike. lol I've seen him drain all the old oil out and fill it back up with 100% diesel fuel, start it and let it run for like 30 minutes. It was the blackest chit you ever saw comin out. lol Then he'd put a new filter on and fill it up with oil. Old man Balkom was his name. He said that's how he'd done it since he was a kid and that was probably about the turn of the 20th century, cause he was OLD and this was probably 72 or 73.
Click to expand...
Yes
Diesel is a Great cleaner!
I was accused once of not changing the oil on a twin engine boat because the oil was So Black before and after changing it!
After that anytime a engine had dark oil I would drain it then put 1 gal Diesel with 1 qt oil in and run (idle) it for about 15 min or so
After draining that and filling with new oil and filter its hard to read on the dipstick because it's So Clean!!
Been doing that for 30 years...
 
The 318 in my 78 fury ticks for a few secs when I first start it, an original 56k mile car.
I have had the intake and valve covers off, it's very clean inside. It's only a few seconds, and it has usually sat anywhere from a month to 6 months when it happens. It's only a few seconds, and if I start it more regularly like in warmer months when I'm more likely to be driving it sorta regularly it doesn't tick when I start it. I do have a cam n lifters here that I want to swap in ( mild upgrade) for the hell of it this winter. .. new but 25+ years old Mopar performance lifters....
 
I've owned six 318's, a 360, a 5.9, two 383's two 400s and a 440 plus two 3.9's.

Aside from an exhaust leak (which sounds just like a lifter tick) every single one of them ticked at startup for one of two reasons- 1-low oil, 2- needs the oil changed.

If it ticks longer than at startup, something else is going on like a bent pushrod or cracked rocker arm.

What brand oil are you using and how long between changes?

I found back in the day, that despite the reputation, Castrol GTX caused my lifters to tick prematurely.
I switched to Valvoline which resolved the issue, and am currently using Valvoline syn blend 10 or 5/30 (in FL).
Of course we've all heard the stories about paraffin based oil (Quaker State)causing sludge build up.

BTW I run 5,000 or more miles between oil changes.
(and have never lost an engine due to oil breakdown)

Most times, I actually change my oil when the lifters start ticking!
 
If it only tics a few seconds, it would seem to me that's just lifter tick until the oil pressure gets to the lifters. I personally would avoid flushing if there's no visible gunk buildup in the valve covers.
 
I have used Sea Foam for years as an engine flush prior to changing the oil, never had a problem. I add it to the cold engine and let the motor warm up, slowly rev the engine up (~2500 rpm) and down a few times, then change the oil. I don't drive the motor or place any load on the motor while I have the Sea Foam in the engine. You'll be surprised at how dirty the oil will look when you drain it. I'd try this before you tear down your engine, because you might have a bad lifter. You probably just have a sticky lifter from lack of regular use.
 
Lifter Ticking is good when it's normal. Cuz then, when the ticking changes, you know something is wrong. lol.
Most of my old Mopes, over the years, were tickers, and I let them. It makes for low-rpm torque. until the tick changes, then I suspect a lobe going down, and start hunting for it.
But, if the tick is not a lifter, well, you better go investigate.

As regards flushing, I've only ever done it one time, and I guess it promptly filled the oil pick-up with debris, and a few miles later, the engine went down. So, notta chance would I recommend it. But, you can put a partial load of CC cleaner in there and pile on some miles. See what happens.
 
I’ve been silent for a while - just back home after a couple of weeks out of town. I appreciate all of the responses and suggestions. I will try a number of the suggestions. FYI - I just pulled the dipstick and the oil is pretty clean. It’s probably been over a year since the last oil change but, unfortunately, that might mean less than 1000 miles on the “fresh” oil. I have the car running and functioning good right now and hopefully I’ll increase frequency and distance of driving.

Pulling the valve cover and inspecting cleanliness, etc sounds like a good next step. Any actual adjustments or push rod replacements will depend on what I find.

I was asked what oil I used. For the first 130,000 - I faithfully used QS 30 high detergent oil (I’ve read negative stuff about QS since) and it actually kept things nice and clean in the rocker arm area. Since the rebuild over 30 years ago, my annual mileage has become very low and I’ve used different multi-grade oils & timing of oil changes have been based on a dirty oil stick and the passage of time - not mileage. If the rocker arm area is clean - I’m going to suspect that a dirty oil pan (caused by years of very little driving) may be why the oil is getting dirty sooner than it used to.

I was interested in the various engine flush techniques. When my car was new, an Air Force motor pool guy told me to add a quart of automatic transmission before each oil change and I did that for many years. I think that worked pretty well based on an internal inspection around 100K miles. (Almost 40 years ago and I have no recollection why I pulled the heads.)

Thanks again for your inputs.

Another project ahead is due to minor but annoying oil drips. The gaskets are now 34 years old. With about 60K on the engine - I feel that, if the engine needs to be pulled to replace gaskets - why wouldn’t I go for an engine rebuild at the same time? Up ‘till now - I’ve kept everything but the paint and exhaust system original. I’d be interested in your thoughts of a rebuild vs a reputable crate engine.
 
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