Advise on hydraulic valvetrain in 440

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74SwingerA

74SwingerA

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I am pretty much finished ordering parts for my engine. We are keeping it hydraulic vs adjustable because we don't want the extra maintenance/costs associated to keep it reliable. I am confused right now about which style I want to go - flat tappet or roller cams. Right now the set I have chosen are flat-tappet but I am not sure what would be more reliable but also produce the most HP/TQ and allow for the best set-up to avoid floating.

So what I have chosen are Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 60829 and I am using these cams - COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift Camshafts 21-228-4

From there I have no clue which rockers and lifters to consider. I know I don't need to obtain more than 6500 RPM and the max lift on these is .600in. My Crank, pistons and rods are sourced from 440source and according to them the 75CC heads would give me roughly 10.7:1 compression.

Does anyone have a clue which rockers/lifters I should add to this or would stock be strong/light enough for a 6500 RPM engine without float.
 
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74SwingerA said:
I am currently building my RB440 for a mild street/track build. While we have wait for the machine shop to finish boring my block .030 over and square deck to zero piston deck height we've accumulated parts for the build. I had originally planned on keeping the stock valve train but I have since decided, after cleaning the shaft mounted rockers and seeing they're in rough shape, to maybe either buy a stock replacement for the rockers or buying a rolling hydraulic rocker from Harland (Part # S70015K). The valvetrain would limit me to 6500 RPM with the stock lifter.

My build is as follows so far -
Demon Carburetion SDA-850-MS $510
Clevite Rod Bearings CB1512VL(30) -$174
ARP Head Studs 145-4206 - $240
Probe FPS Forged Pistons P3831F-030 - $457
Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 60929 - $731 X2
Edelbrock Torker II Intake Manifolds 5091 - $266
Mahle Original Precision-Ground Performance Piston Rings 40203CP-030 - $40.00
COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift Camshafts 21-228-4- $152 X2
ARP High Performance Series Connecting Rod Bolt Kits 145-6002 - $80
Milodon Main Stud Kits 81185 - $73
Clevite Engine Main Bearings Parts MB3248VU24 - $213
Hooker Competition Darkside Ceramic Coated Headers 5903-3HKR - $620
Summit Racing® Aluminum Water Pump Housings SUM-314441- $145
FlowKooler Hi-Flow Mechanical Water Pumps 1679 - $119
Tuff Stuff Performance High Amp Output Factory Cast Plus Alternators 9509CSP - $179
Mopar Performance High Performance Oil Pumps P4286590 - $97
Rods from 440 Source (Just a set of forged stockers) - $250
Crankshaft from 440 Source - $750
Performance mechanical fuel pump from 440 source - $100
Champion 26" Radiator - $410
FBO Ignition System HRR688DWR Kit - $400

I want to keep it hydraulic for drive-ability and reliability. Know that I can and could get more power from an adjustable system but I really don't want to spend another 1k+ on doing such.

Thank you,
Cody
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I believe the Edelbrock heads recommend adjustable rockers. There are many rocker manufacturers out there. Harland Sharps are a very good brand but expensive. Have you considered any other brands? 65'
 
Plymouth 65 said:
I believe the Edelbrock heads recommend adjustable rockers. There are many rocker manufacturers out there. Harland Sharps are a very good brand but expensive. Have you considered any other brands? 65'
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Hey yeah I just noticed that when I was reading. I seem to have ordered the incorrect heads by accident. I am sending them back to Summit tonight and exchanging them for another set. I guess I drank a little too much that night haha.

I want to go quality for the sake of keeping things running for a while. This will retire my older supra as the DD so that I can make it a complete autocross car (Runs about 420ish crank HP on the 1JZ). So it will see some track time drag/autocross but mostly be a daily driver. Hence the want to keep it hydraulic.

Everything else seems fine with the build except I don't know where to go for lifters/rockers for this head to optimize the cams potential.
 
74SwingerA said:
Hey yeah I just noticed that when I was reading. I seem to have ordered the incorrect heads by accident. I am sending them back to Summit tonight and exchanging them for another set. I guess I drank a little too much that night haha.

I want to go quality for the sake of keeping things running for a while. This will retire my older supra as the DD so that I can make it a complete autocross car (Runs about 420ish crank HP on the 1JZ). So it will see some track time drag/autocross but mostly be a daily driver. Hence the want to keep it hydraulic.

Everything else seems fine with the build except I don't know where to go for lifters/rockers for this head to optimize the cams potential.
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I'm running Crane anti pump up lifters and adjustable roller rockers to 6500 in my small block. 65'
 
I was thinking of using 440source as well since all their parts seem to be great value to performance. What do you think of these and some COMP High energy lifters?

Aluminum Roller Rockers/shafts - 1.5 Ratio - New-440 Source

Crane also looks like a viable option but you didn't mention any parts numbers which is making it hard to find their roller rocker set, I keep getting small block Chevy and Dodge parts but I am running a 440.
 
I run Harland Sharps. They work flawlessly.

Crane had some serious issues, albeit years ago, with their gold race rockers. I'd avoid them.

But looking at your original post, I think you need to do a little more research before making any decisions.
 
I run the Crane golds, they work well but sound like a sewing machine. If I had it to do over again I would go with the Comp stainless rollers for a street car.

IMG_1075.jpg
 
Roccodart440 - Care to elaborate? I already ordered the parts, some arrived and some have not but I am willing to take advice when given. This is my first engine build outside of slapping on a turbo and larger manifold/injectors with an ecu tune. Please tell me what I am missing or doing incorrectly - other than simply imputing the wrong number on the heads when I ordered them. I am here to learn.

I think I am going to go with 440Source or Comp - I have read a lot of great things about the comp set but I am really intrigued by the 440source kit.
 
PRW stainless with B3 racing geometry correction kit
 
stamped MP rockers will give you less lift as their ratio is not spot on. Crane golds were the standard years ago, still good. full rollers are overkill and introduce about 600 more things that can fall into the pan (roller bearings) as well as the hardened shaft upgrade. Roller lifters and cam offer more aggressive ramps and reduced friction but cost about 4X what a flat tappet would run as a kit (springs, pushrods, cam, lifters). At a minimum Id run adjustables (MP or Isky irons to start) just to keep the preload in check as aftermarket heads are notorious for non adjustable rocker heights, hence the adjustable recommendation from Edelbrock. A 440 with a stout cam and AL heads will womp with any valvetrain, depends on your budget I suppose.
 
74SwingerA said:
Roccodart440 - Care to elaborate? I already ordered the parts, some arrived and some have not but I am willing to take advice when given. This is my first engine build outside of slapping on a turbo and larger manifold/injectors with an ecu tune. Please tell me what I am missing or doing incorrectly - other than simply imputing the wrong number on the heads when I ordered them. I am here to learn.

I think I am going to go with 440Source or Comp - I have read a lot of great things about the comp set but I am really intrigued by the 440source kit.
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They broke adjusters like crazy. Not just while the engine was running. While you were setting the lash sometimes. They also didn't hold lash very well.

Crane sent me a full box of replacement adjusters for free. Apparently a recall deal. they didn't break after that and held lash better.

Cause me a ton of assaches.

My Harland sharps have been great for over a decade. I adjust them once a year. They hold lash great and never give me any issues.
 
roccodart440 said:
They broke adjusters like crazy. Not just while the engine was running. While you were setting the lash sometimes. They also didn't hold lash very well.

Crane sent me a full box of replacement adjusters for free. Apparently a recall deal. they didn't break after that and held lash better.

Cause me a ton of assaches.

My Harland sharps have been great for over a decade. I adjust them once a year. They hold lash great and never give me any issues.
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Had the same problem with 440 source rocker on my other car. Rocker adjusters would break.
 
Damn, I was really hopping that 440source would be a good quality parts company. Sad to see they aren't selling what their site hypes up.

I know Harland Sharps make exceptional rockers, its whats in my dads car, but they are pricey. This is most likely going to be a year long or more project, while I have no kids and little overhead I am not wealthy enough to just slam 30k on the table for whatever I want. So if I need to buy more expensive parts for the engine I can halt orders on other parts of the car for later. I do want to keep tabs on the build though. I really want to keep it under 8k.

Right now it looks like I am going with either the Mancini Racing units or the Harland Sharps. I am split on the quality of Crane Golds as I am hearing such mixed reviews.

@EchoSixMike Do you know if those are for the pair or per-rocker price on those Mancini units?
 
The 440 source may have fixed them by now. The set I used are from 2014. Used them for years on my sons Charger and it was a 10 second car which were put on the motor in 2009. May have been a bad run at 440 Source.
 
You really want to skimp on something like a rocker? I mean, if they fail, you've got big problems.

Save a few hundred on headers or your carb.
 
I am not skimping per sey - I just thought that 440Source would be a viable options since their heads have amazing reviews. I am most likely looking at a Harland Sharp set or Mancini Racing set. It just so happens that may not be the case. I am really divided on whether to go with them or not.

Besides - The Carb is already on order and the Headers fit my application. If you suggest another set of headers at per-level performance/quality I will certainly take a look. This is my first engine build, I want this done right and not to be headache 3 years from now.
 
I have no experience with 440 source. Only crane and Harland Sharp.

I'm just saying, get a good set that is reputable.
 
That's the full set, minus hold downs. It's a couple bucks more, and probably a good deal for the kit with the aluminum hold down hardware.
Mancini Racing Aluminum Roller Rocker Arm Kit

If I didn't have four sets of ductile Isky's and ductile Crane's cached, I'd be using the Mancini's for my flat tappet and hydraulic roller engines. For solid roller cams, I use T&D, ideally the paired version with the steel mounting pads. S/F....Ken M
 
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