Aftermarket 17" Wheels for a 1969 Valiant

[1969_Valiant]

A few months ago, I asked about wheels for my car and one of you recommended this site:

http://www.coyswheel.com/coys.html

I'm looking at the 17 x 8 rims and want to confirm the correct stud pattern and backspacing before ordering them. My car is a 100% stock Valiant Signet with a 225 slant, auto trans and the original drum brake setup. I will be using 245/45/R17 tires. I do not want to make any changes to the car itself and do not want to use any spacers, etc...What is the correct stud pattern, and what backspacing should I use to make this all work without any rubbing? Thanks for any replies.

 

[jamesdart]

the bolt pattern is 5 on 4" stock for a 1969 a body. not my car, but i would upgrade the brakes before spending any money on larger rims. your stopping is probably going to get worse with larger tires and rims besides, 9" drums are going to look real funny behind 17" rims.

 

[1969_Valiant]

I hear you. Others have warned me about that as well. I've decided to leave the brakes as is because a) I don't have a lot of money to acquire and install the axle assemblies with a better braking system and b) I'm trying to leave the car original where I can. I do appreciate your concern though. Thank you. As for the look of the drums, I will be ordering the wheels in black finish and painting the drums black as well, so hopefully it will blend in nicely.

Do you know what backspacing I should order them with, so there is no rubbing against the wheel wells? Thanks again for your reply.

 

[SRT_DSTRHOLC]

coys are crap from what I hear. Search and your fill find people complaining about the coating on them peeling off and things of that sort

 

[jamesdart]

i put 17"s on my car but i am running the later model disc brakes the track width is probably different so i cant help you with the offset. you can upgrade the brakes for less than the cost of tires and rims you are looking at. its a six banger car, a brake upgrade certainly wont hurt the value in anyway, if anything it is going to help it.

 

[72BBSwinger]

Anyone who has a Malibu SS and a couple of Dusters on the "Dodge" page of their gallery doesn't get my business ever lol. Seriously if you can put together the parts to go with LBP it opens the door for a huge selection of wheels that are cheaper AND stronger than those.

 

[abodyjoe]

coys are crap from what I hear. Search and your fill find people complaining about the coating on them peeling off and things of that sort

i don't know, djvcuda has them on his car and i think they have keld up damn good. not if your going to drive with them in the salty winter i can see that being a problem..

 

[abodyjoe]

I hear you. Others have warned me about that as well. I've decided to leave the brakes as is because a) I don't have a lot of money to acquire and install the axle assemblies with a better braking system and b) I'm trying to leave the car original where I can. I do appreciate your concern though. Thank you. As for the look of the drums, I will be ordering the wheels in black finish and painting the drums black as well, so hopefully it will blend in nicely.

Do you know what backspacing I should order them with, so there is no rubbing against the wheel wells? Thanks again for your reply.

you been warned because people are looking out for you. if you con't have money to update a safety item how do have the money to buy wheels??

 

[Revhendo]

you been warned because people are looking out for you. if you con't have money to update a safety item how do have the money to buy wheels??

Kind of along the same lines, the stock brakes on a 69 Val are adequate, but add the extra leverage of a larger wheel and you'll be wishing for something bigger. (Brakes that is).

 

[1969_Valiant]

you been warned because people are looking out for you. if you con't have money to update a safety item how do have the money to buy wheels??

I know. And I appreciate it. The rims will cost about $700. I already own the tires. What would you estimate a full brake upgrade costing, parts and labor? $600-$800? Then I'll have to get the rims on top of that.

 

[72BBSwinger]

What are your long term goals? Dumping money into 5x4 wheels is wasted money in the long run.

 

[abodyjoe]

I know. And I appreciate it. The rims will cost about $700. I already own the tires. What would you estimate a full brake upgrade costing, parts and labor? $600-$800? Then I'll have to get the rims on top of that.

depends what direction you want to go and what you can get the parts for.

 

[75-Swinger]

For what it's worth, if the five spoke wheel is what you're after, you can pick up 17" Mustang take off wheels for about $200 a set, leaving you with $500 to upgrade brakes and go to large bolt pattern.

 

[pauly v.100]

I know. And I appreciate it. The rims will cost about $700. I already own the tires. What would you estimate a full brake upgrade costing, parts and labor? $600-$800? Then I'll have to get the rims on top of that.

We found a beater 75 Dart 4 dr. with a 318 for my freind's build, ran well enough to limp it 17 miles home. V-8 K-frame, discs in front, 8.25 rear and various other parts= 250 bones.
do the upgrade first, you'll thank yourself later

 

[dano]

What would you estimate a full brake upgrade costing, parts and labor? $600-$800? Then I'll have to get the rims on top of that.

Find a donor car on Craigslist. Do the work yourself, it isn't that hard, I bet there some Mopar folks in your area that would help. Hows your front suspension bushings? This is a good time to do them too because if they are original, chances are they are shot or close too it. U-pull-its are also your friend. By the rims you want in LBP first, then acquire all the parts for the swap, do swap, add rims/tires, and Boom, sweet rims and far better breaking.

There is originality and desirability, No one desires the stock 9" drums (or 10" for that matter) for reasons other than they are drums. I say keep them so you know you have the original equipment.

 

[BLWN1]

I gave 300 for my parts car and sold it with out the suspension and a good slant 6 for 300.....

 

[zhandfull]

15 replies and no answers? I understand the safety concern but the tires diameter is not much different than stock and the car is a stock 6 cylinder. Come on there's lots of people that have changed wheels and tire on there stock cars without issues.

Bolt pattern:
5 on 4" is the bolt pattern

Back spacing:
The answer for the back wheels is 4.5" backspacing. I think you will be happy with that. Not sure how a 8" wheel will fit the front but I suspect the same wheel will work fine on the front. You may have some rubbing at full turn against the frame.

Smart way:
What I would do is order one wheel. You already have the tire Then trial fit that wheel in all 4 positions all the way around the car. Check clearance with car up on jack and down on ground wheels turned etc. Then if all looks good test drive car with the new wheel in all 4 positions on the car around the block. That way any issue will be seen and you can also make sure that the wheel meets your expectations. As stated above I have heard some issues with the chrome wheel plating flaking, might want to stay away from chrome.

Problems you may have:
You may run in to an issue finding left handed 7/16 lug nuts for Coy wheels on the driver side of your car. Most people just change out the studs to normal 7/16 right handed studs like are found on the right hand side of your car. Yours may have already been changed but just wanted to give you a heads up on that issue.

 

[Revhendo]

15 replies and no answers? I understand the safety concern but the tires diameter is not much different than stock and the car is a stock 6 cylinder. Come on there's lots of people that have changed wheels and tire on there stock cars without issues.

The information that you posted is correct, but I will beg to differ with you on this statement. There is a significant difference in diameter and an increase in width with what is being proposed here. I own a 69 Valiant with a stock /6 and it came with 9" drums and 13" wheels. It's stopping ability was at best marginal. Now you're going to add a wheel that is at least 2" taller and easily will have a foot print twice as wide. Sure you can bolt them on, but is it the safest thing to do?

Consider this, when you're turning a wrench and the bolt not budging, you grab a wrench with a longer handle to increase your leverage and break it free. Installing bigger wheels essentially does the same thing to your brakes.
You can have brakes that are better than your wheels and tires, it's easy to see, all four wheels lock. You put on better rollers and the car stops even faster with less wheel lock. You go even larger and the wheel starts overtaking the brakes, the wheels don't lock at all and the car rolls through the Toyota in front of it. Make sense?

 

[zhandfull]

Here is a little slant 6 Dart I had. The brakes worked good when it was stock. I added some bigger tires and it still stopped fine. I think adding bigger brakes is a great ideal, but I was broke once and the first thing I wanted to do was personalize my car with wheels. In fact I'm still broke just have a lot of mopar junk around. LOL...

 

[vynn3]

If the OP likes the Coy's wheels, like I do, why in the world is it "wasted money" for a set of wheels? Jeez, you guys act like there's no 5x4" disc brake option if he decides to upgrade later.

Kelsey Hayes disk brakes are 5x4", were a factory option, and are pretty easy to find here on FABO or elsewhere (for about the same as abig bolt conversion when you factor in the change on the rear). They work GREAT. Wilwood offers a 5x4" disk option, too. Dr. Diff even has a rear disk option for small bolt, though I don't believe it's necessary out back.

Do I recommend disk brakes for the guy? Yes. But my Coy's + tires weigh the same as my steel rallyes + tires. Properly maintained drums work better than badly maintained disks. Drums are just prone to fade. Factor that into your driving habits, but that doesn't make a drum brake car some kind of deathtrap.

LOVE my Coy's. I don't need a 5x4.5" bolt pattern, and I DON'T like the wider track from the big bolt disks, either. Not everyone needs the vaunted BBP.

 

[jamesdart]

the KH discs are expensive to do anything with. calipers and rotors are anything but cheap. wilwood for years never had dust boots on the caliper pistons, so they arent the best street option. 9" drums suck, its really not much of an argument. not to mention if you keep the small bolt pattern stuff you are stuck with the tiny balljoints. aftermarket sbp rims have a huge center register, and they dont leave a ton of meat between it and the lug holes in the rim. it just doesnt make sense. like the old lipstick on a pig theory.
no one is going to want to help, because it just doesnt make sense to worry about a nice set of rims, before making the car safer. what condition are the drums in? does it still have the original flex hoses too? the brakes are the first thing that should be upgraded on these cars, its a simple factory parts upgrade its not rocket science. im running 11.75 cordoba brakes behind my 17s, it was cheap to do, cheap to maintain easy to find parts for, and stops really good. you can find a bbp rear for cheap, converting an abody 8 3/4 to bbp isnt the only option. dont get mad no one has your answers or wants to help, just break out the tape and figure it out on your own, and post some pics when done.

 

[vynn3]

the KH discs are expensive to do anything with. calipers and rotors are anything but cheap.

But likely cheaper than a front and rear bolt pattern change. Depends on what deals you find. Find used parts, rebuild the calipers, new rotors for less than $25 apiece. At worst, it's a little more than the big bolt conversion.

wilwood for years never had dust boots on the caliper pistons, so they arent the best street option. 9" drums suck, its really not much of an argument. not to mention if you keep the small bolt pattern stuff you are stuck with the tiny balljoints.

Yeah, everyone who sees my Swinger comments on my tiny, inadequate BALL JOINTS. And it's a real pain to drive cause of those tiny ball joints. And yet, they've never failed or given me problems. Oh well, guess I'll just suffer the ridicule...

aftermarket sbp rims have a huge center register, and they dont leave a ton of meat between it and the lug holes in the rim.

Yeah, the lug nuts on my Coy's are tight. They're NOTHING compared to the bottom center nut on the exhaust manifold for my slant. Doesn't stop me from removing it, though. What's the big deal there?

it just doesnt make sense. like the old lipstick on a pig theory.

Sorry my two small-bolt "pigs" with their KH disks and tiny ball joints offend guys like you, but I LIKE the shade of Coy's lipstick.

no one is going to want to help, because it just doesnt make sense to worry about a nice set of rims, before making the car safer.

Yeah, and none of us would EVER suggest dual exhaust, headers, an open element air cleaner, or (!) a 4bbl on a "deathtrap" drum brake car. None of us have ever done that, right? Every time someone asks about upgrading their 318 2bbl with a Performer intake and a Holley, we all make sure he has disk brakes. Absolutely.

what condition are the drums in? does it still have the original flex hoses too? the brakes are the first thing that should be upgraded on these cars, its a simple factory parts upgrade its not rocket science. im running 11.75 cordoba brakes behind my 17s, it was cheap to do, cheap to maintain easy to find parts for, and stops really good. you can find a bbp rear for cheap

Really? Not in my experience. B-body rears are cheapER, but not cheap.

converting an abody 8 3/4 to bbp isnt the only option. dont get mad no one has your answers or wants to help, just break out the tape and figure it out on your own, and post some pics when done.

Big bolt pattern is not necessary to have disk brakes OR nice rims. A disk brake discussion is SEPARATE from a wheel backspace discussion.

 

[Revhendo]

Yeah, the lug nuts on my Coy's are tight. They're NOTHING compared to the bottom center nut on the exhaust manifold for my slant. Doesn't stop me from removing it, though. What's the big deal there?

Yeah, and none of us would EVER suggest dual exhaust, headers, an open element air cleaner, or (!) a 4bbl on a "deathtrap" drum brake car. None of us have ever done that, right? Every time someone asks about upgrading their 318 2bbl with a Performer intake and a Holley, we all make sure he has disk brakes. Absolutely.

Big bolt pattern is not necessary to have disk brakes OR nice rims. A disk brake discussion is SEPARATE from a wheel backspace discussion.

Dude, unwind just a touch. I don't think anybody was really getting upset that the OP wanted to put big wheels on his stock Val. Most of us have been down this road before and know there are options out there. Personally I haven't seen very low dollar K/H disc setups lately. Last time I went looking for new rotors, it made way more sense to me to do the BBP conversion. At that time, I already had an extra set of stock wheels for my Charger, so I went with the conversion, rolled on those until I could afford the wheels I really wanted.

I pulled a couple of your statements just to comment on, nothing more.

As far as the correlation between an exhaust manifold fastener and a wheel stud, there are a few differences. Both are for retaining parts on a car, but the loads an exhaust manifold is subjected to are not exactly the same. With wheels, the farther apart and larger the studs, the better the clamping force and the more stable the wheel. Todays NASCAR wheels are using a 5x5 bolt pattern with 5/8 studs. Yep, you can drive and fart around on the 5x4 bolt pattern all day long, probably for the life of the car. If you push your car to the limits hard enough, long enough, you'll eventually consider moving on to parts with more capability. If you plan on performance upgrades for the future, why not plan ahead from the beginning? Not to mention that the variety of wheels available for the BBP is a lot better.

Which brings us to.....
No, no one gets into the whole put disc (not disk) brakes on your car before you add an air cleaner or headers. Maybe they should. Anyone who seriously upgrades the performance of their vehicle's engine and doesn't consider the capability of their suspension or brakes is simply a fool. We live in a world where the average beater Honda can outstop a perfectly restored 340 Duster by several car lengths. You add more power to a car that simply "stops fine", you're building a recipe for disaster and make yourself a danger to yourself and everyone else on the road. Don't fool yourself by saying you're a better driver than that. You're only as good as the a$$hat on the cellphone in the Toyota next to you. I've got a couple of family gravesites for you to visit if you think I'm just blowing smoke.

 

[jamesdart]

wow you have all the answers. i could argue every one of those answers, but i dont come on here for that ****. people are trying to steer this guy in the right direction. i put my kid in my car most of the time i take it out, and im not going to cut corners on saftey, to have the "look" i want. anything can happen at any time and i wouldnt be able to live with myself knowing i hurt him, or hurt some one else, or even worse because i was being cheap and spent my money on some apperance crap when it should have been spent elsewhere.
my gripe with the rims is there just isnt enough material on the rim between the center register and the lug holes, its a saftey concern, not an issue of fitting a socket on the rim. i have nothing against coys wheels.

 

[bad440]

Here is a little slant 6 Dart I had. The brakes worked good when it was stock. I added some bigger tires and it still stopped fine. I think adding bigger brakes is a great ideal, but I was broke once and the first thing I wanted to do was personalize my car with wheels. In fact I'm still broke just have a lot of mopar junk around. LOL...

love that look